From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 14 Jun 1994, part 5
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: More bloody Hrestoli
Message-ID: <199406130948.RAA02707@quenda.cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 13 Jun 94 09:49:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4535
Ok, the Hrestoli have one hierarchy for both temporal and spiritual
matters (in fact, like many earthly religion, they have difficulty telling
them apart). I posit that Bishops basically generally control a city (and its
cathedral), and the ranks above bishop (who control a larger area) and the
ranks below (generally control a small fief) are referred to most commonly by
their temporal rank, as they seldom officiate at services regularly. Other
people of equivalent rank (that have no specific domain) are referred to by
their profession ie admiral, general, or by a specific title (like Grand
Master of the ORder of ...).
Furthermore I posit that the Ecclesiarch (who nominally controls the
entire world) is higher than the king - but the Ecclesiarch has little
responsibility for temporal matters, while the king has much. On matters
which slearly affect the whole church rather than just Loskalm (difficult to
prove, as the church is very small outside of Loskalm), the Ecclesiarch gets
the nod.
A further suggestion - Nobles 'retire' by changing to a position with
spiritual authority, but little temporal authority of strenuous duty (like
Japanese Emperors retiring to a monastery), or ocassionally even returning to
the farm (regarded as virtuous).
My big change to Hrestoli society that I would like to moot here -
if (as accoding to Sandy) positions like Squire, Acolythist are actually
able to advance up the hierarchy quickly, this implies that the standard
tests for caste promotion are subject to some variation. I had already
decided this - at least for city dwellers (who would have to prove themselves
as Artisans rather than farmers - maybe Craft and Human Lore at appropriate
percentages). Does this apply all across the board? I doubt that they would
ever get so mixed up that the tests became similar, but I can see that
Squires who wish to become knights would have to prove themselves proficient
at Craft:armory and horsemanship, or whatever it is that Squires do - skills
of some use as a knight, rather than farming. What about Acolythists? They
could progress to Knight fairly quickly (using appropriate skills - Read/Write
or similar?) but would they still need to combat skills?
A possibility is that taking test other than the standard one admits
you to some of the priveleges of the class, but not all, or forces you into
service with a specific organsiation. Frex an Artisan might qualify as a
Journeyman in his craft, by demonstrating knowledge of his craft, and of
trade, the laws of the land, and other things needful in business (Craft 60+\
and Human Lore 60+) but he is not able to take service as a knight with a
rural lord, but must remain in his Guild (and join the city militia).
This question of how the paths of advancement work in practice is
a really important one. Th Hrestoli are very difficult to have as PCs as
written (ie the only people with a chance of getting to Knight are the
farmers), and I am keen to get some sort of general feel for what is
reasonalbe.
Furthermore I say that I am rather keen on writing up the Hrestoli
for Tales or similar, with a proper detailed writeup. I would like some
ideas as to what is reasonable first.
Cheers,
Dave Cake
---------------------
From: swj@liverpool.ac.uk (Mr S.W. Jones)
Subject: The Pedant Returns.
Message-ID: <199406131021.LAA18323@uxg.liv.ac.uk>
Date: 13 Jun 94 12:21:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4536
Alex,
Your query about swords on Monday's, the Greek Hoplite, as the
acceptable model of the Lunar foot soldier (erm.. chainmail guys- not
over popular with the Greeks- however I'm getting out of my depth here)
I believe used the Kopi, a short bronze one edged, commonly reverse curved
sword (not quite a sabre or scimitar) and cast in one piece- probably why
they liked big spears, so they didn't have to use the things.
A pedant (whose expecting to be corrected).
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From: jonas.schiott@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: People, including Barbarians
Message-ID: <9406131045.AA07949@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 13 Jun 94 14:45:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4537
Sandy says:
>As perpetrator of the population figures for Glorantha
>(though I was advised against it), I hereby grant you full permission
>to ignore each and every figure written down in those lists.
Whew! That sure takes a load off our backs. Thanks!
>I don't think they're inaccurate by a factor of 10
>anywhere but a very few places,
Keanos is one...
>The Ralian and Wenelian
>Orlanthi are exceedingly crude and primitive compared to them.
[Sartarites et al]
Yep, that's one of our basic assumptions.
>They
>don't have cities, they don't have walled towns.
Agree in principle. There _are_ exceptions to every rule, though.
>They're barbarians,
>through and through. We're talking unwashed Germanic hordes, here. ;)
Well, germano-celtic, perhaps. :-)
( Jonas Schiott )
( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria )
( Goteborgs Universitet )
---------------------
From: jonas.schiott@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Killing Orlanth...
Message-ID: <9406131121.AA08223@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 13 Jun 94 15:21:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4538
In the discussion of exactly _how_ the Lunars are gonna wipe out the
Orlanth cult, Alex says:
>Lunar plans would indeed destroy
>the Rex cult, but only because it's not known elsewhere
I.e. elsewhere but Maniria. Sorry, but according to the Heroes write-up,
the Rex subcult is alive and well in Ralios. Why? Well, for one thing
Alakoring Dragonbreaker, who founded the subcult, was a Ralian. WF 13 even
has him being from the "Kingdom of Halikiv", whatever that means.:-)
And as Sandy pointed out, the only Lunars who make it to Ralios are a few
traders. OK, maybe when the Syndic's Ban lifts they can march through
Fronela and High Llama Pass, but this sounds like another multiple-Wane
project...
( Jonas Schiott )
( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria )
( Goteborgs Universitet )
---------------------
From: jonas.schiott@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Re: Lunar Tricksters
Message-ID: <9406131121.AA08226@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 13 Jun 94 15:21:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4539
Barron Chugg [really?] wonders:
>I was running down the Seven Mothers-Light Bringers parallel when I
>noticed that the Lunars don't really have a Eurmal/Trickster analog.
As I have argued before, this is because the Red Goddess is just one of
Trickster's masks, and the Empire is one big Illusion that Eurmal has set
up to distract Orlanth long enough to get out from under his thumb...
:-)
( Jonas Schiott )
( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria )
( Goteborgs Universitet )
---------------------
From: jonas.schiott@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Ralian Humakti.
Message-ID: <9406131139.AA08340@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 13 Jun 94 15:39:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4540
David:
>> Dorflik (a
>>city in Safelster that we made up from whole cloth).
>You mean Dorflik is a city in Saug.
Urk. Yes, obviously. And here I'm criticizing Joerg for mixing up deity names...
>The Humakt subcult worshipped in Ralios is Makla Mann, who remained
>faithful to Arkat even after Arkat betrayed the cult.
Yeah? Where's it say this? In your campaign notes, or in some published
source? Please take pity on my lack of a cerebrally implanted Gloranthan
Source Index. :-)
( Jonas Schiott )
( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria )
( Goteborgs Universitet )
---------------------
From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: gargoyles in imther
Message-ID: <01HDHI72DRUUQT5SJW@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 13 Jun 94 02:31:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4541
- Peter Michaels discusses gargoyles and their origins
Gargoyles have been prominent in my Imther material since inception.
Their earth connection always appealed to me, particularly in a
mountainous area. Two particular locations became the center of
gargoyle activity.
The first is a haunted area called the Plain of Stones, site of an
ancient earth temple which Dara Happan invaders crushed and cursed as
anathema to the light. Deep within the ancient temple, the stone
remnants of an earth god, child of Genert, still remain. The gargoyles
are said to be the children of this earth god, still serving him after
all these centuries and protecting him from harm.
The second is a citadel on the eastern border of Tork, so far to the
northeast of Imther, that most Imtherians think of it as legend or myth.
This citadel is called Tor Gargoule and is home to 3 (formerly 4) giant
intelligent gargoyles who command their smaller brethren. I never went
farther than that on understanding the origins of these gargoyles until
prompted recently by Martin and Peter. These would certainly be among
the leaders of the armies of Genert, but why did they survivie?
Clearly, they must be guarding something like a well of earth mana
crucial to the survival of the earth. The lesser gargoyles are sent out
to scour the mountains of Imther, Jord, and the Rockwoods to find
material to help protect and maintain this well of mana. Of course, it
would be logical to have others trying to get that mana. Since I had
placed the citadel on the Tork border and considered it part of the
binding of the Mad Sultanate within Tork, I realized that Jannisor must
have come there. Which in turn prompted another story (see next
posting).
Neither place is easy to get to and both are well defended by the
gargoyles there. But for bold adventurers...
--Harald
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From: hmangold@muselab.ac.runet.edu
Subject: RE: Kralorean Dragon Names
Message-ID: <9406131202.AA02132@muselab.ac.runet.edu>
Date: 13 Jun 94 12:02:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4543
Wow! Two messages sent to the list in a two week period!
I'm improving...
>Nils has translated some Kralori names for us:
"Yelm" = Yang Long, the sun dragon
"Dayzatar" = Tien Long, the celestial dragon
"Polaris" = Shing Long, the star dragon
>I like these and will use them. Thanks! Got any
more?
I like these names, but I have one small problem with
the name Tien Long. Knowing RQ player's and
scholar's propensity for forging links between
similarly name beings, is it really wise to name a
dragon "Tien"? :) Especially considering the Kralori
link to Atyar? Just a friendly suggestion.
Wakboth winks at a particularly cute chaos
demoness:
<@>
(++++++++++++++++++++++++++)
Savage Henry
Hal Mangold
hmangold@muselab.ac.runet.edu
SvgeHenry@aol.com
---------------------
From: jonas.schiott@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Our scenario.
Message-ID: <9406131217.AA08637@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 13 Jun 94 16:17:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4544
I have now sent out the scenario "Growing Pains" to everyone who has asked
for it up till Monday, June 13, 14.00 CET. If you're one of these and
haven't received it, please e-mail me again.
A cautionary note: the background info is not 100% up to date. Our ideas
keep changing... But then again, I don't believe many will want to run the
scenario as written - I'm hoping you can just cannibalize it for ideas.
( Jonas Schiott )
( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria )
( Goteborgs Universitet )
---------------------
From: brandon@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 10 Jun 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <9406131352.AA02521@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov>
Date: 13 Jun 94 13:52:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4545
Regarding dog and wolf behavior:
I too believe that much of a dog's docile behavior stems from the fact that
his owner(s) are in loco parentis and that he is still emotionally dependent
all of his life. I always thought that wolves were categorically different;
I had read that wolves would never be "tame" like dogs, and that keeping
one as a pet (assuming that one had enough space) was dangerous. The other
day, however, I met a friend with a great big, friendly, happy, outgoing dog
who showed no signs of being uncomfortable among many strangers in a strange
place. I asked what breed of dog he was, and found out that he was a timber
wolf! Not a wolf-dog mix, pure wolf. His owner said that he (the owner) assumed
the role of the pack leader and that as long as he (the owner) was appropriately
assertive during exercise and play, he (the dog this time) was exceedingly
well-behaved. "He's not a slave," the owner said, "He'll never cringe or abase
himself, but he's perfectly happy to accept my leadership."
Brandon
---------------------
From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: misc
Message-ID: <01HDHMSBGDQEQT5TX7@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 13 Jun 94 04:40:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4546
Hello all--
- Malcolm's Moonbroth writeup
I was good to see a writeup on one of the oases. I'd like to see
Martin's on Cam's Well, plus any others that anyone has written up. In
regards to the Moonbroth writeup's inns--I expect that there would only
be one (and a recent one at that) since traffic on the Pavis Road isn't
that heavy and the nomads wouldn't stoop to using an inn.
I found an old reference to a writeup in an early Wyrms Footnotes called
"Lunar Influences in the Plains of Prax." I suspect that this has
something about Moonbroth in it, but haven't seen it. Does anyone know
what it contains or says?
- Barron (x-rq-id 4514) on Lunar Tricksters
I suspect that in most cases the Lunar deities were overlaid over the
earlier Carmanian, Dara Happan, Pelorian trickster stories, so most
would pre-date the Lunars. I do believe that Danfive Xaron is the Lunar
Trickster. It fits with the Seven Mothers as Lightbringers idea, plus
his stated background as an outlaw (why outlawed?--undoubtedly for
crimes committed). His interaction with Jeset the Ferryman may have
been to bribe passage with a joke or tale (or, I suppose, taking Jeset's
place so Jeset could get a break). It is also stated that Danfive Xaron
only partially succeeded in his quest--perhaps he did not completely
betray the quest because he knew it's purpose so that he could not
really become the Lunar trickster, but only the rehabilitator of
tricksters.
- David G. (x-rq-id 4512) on Caladraland
I was certainly surprised to hear you comment on Caladraland's
barrenness. Everything I've read indicates a lush area where people
practice slash-and-burn agriculture over the volcanic ground. I would
certainly picture a lot of growth here between fertile ground and rain
off the sea. The cult writeup of Caladra & Aurelion certainly suggests
powerful fertility here.
--Harald
---------------------
From: umstaple@CC.UManitoba.CA (Clinton James Staples)
Subject: Initiation/Heroquest Scenario
Message-ID:
Date: 13 Jun 94 04:10:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4547
I'm afraid I no longer have access to the daily that I saw the
announcement in, so forgive my lack of detail. I would appreciate
receiving the Initiation/Heroquesting Scenario mentioned in the daily
recently.
Thank you,
Clint Staples
umstaple@mira.cc.umanitoba.ca
---------------------
From: eco0kkn@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann)
Subject: Gaumata's Chaotic Vision
Message-ID: <9406131518.AA16014@cabell.vcu.edu>
Date: 13 Jun 94 15:18:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4548
Devin Cutler quoted Some Friend of Elvis:
"This sort of deduction is often aided by thoughts such as "We're in
the obvious "hook" part of the scenario, so..." Maybe you just have keen
players."
Then Devin wrote:
Maybe so. I would be interested to hear if anyone else running
Gaumata's vision didn't suspect chaos infestation of a village right away?
Also, did the author mean for that to be obscure or obvious?"
And I reply:
Hmmmm. It has been quite a while since I ran that scenario and I
wrote the Vision part of it for the game, then took it word for word
into the written scenario.
What was I trying to make obvious? Not a thing, actually. By using
metaphors, the PCs got to come up with their own ideas of what they
were looking for. In my run, some seemed really hot to find a lake or
pond and search the bottom for tentacled monsters.
As Nick can tell you, there are many possible interpretations. What
his guys "determined" from the vision was very different from the
things that provoked Yelmalio to send it.
Mike
Codex 2 is at the printers!!!!!!! Codex 3 is 1/2 laid out!!!!!
--
------------
Gloranthophiles need to contact me at codexzine@aol.com
for information about Codex Magazine.
UK Gloranthophiles write to cphillips@blue.demon.co.uk
"Inquiries into the nature and secrets of Glorantha" .
------------------------------------------------------/_\
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From: niwe@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Eastern issues
Message-ID: <9406131525.AA02700@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 13 Jun 94 19:25:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4549
Nils Weinander writing
Nick in daily June 13:
>Nils has translated some Kralori names for us:
>
> "Yelm" = Yang Long, the sun dragon
> "Dayzatar" = Tien Long, the celestial dragon
> "Polaris" = Shing Long, the star dragon
>
>I like these and will use them. Thanks! Got any more?
Coming soon, see below.
_____
Joerg in daily June 13:
>I think your view is a bit too draconic, about as much as Steve
>Gilham's Kralorela views from digest 8.6 were too Yelmic to
>be "official".
I have a brand new theory forming. I'm temporarily relocated for
a week where I can access my mail but not my sources, so I can't get
it down until next week.
>> A question about Teshnos: its early history, pre-Dawn and first age
>> is REALLY sketchy. Anyone got any info/ideas/wild hunches?
>
>Again I propose to look at Steve's ideas about the east.
I will try to get my hands on it, but I have some problems getting
things by FTP, so I just might have to ask someone to mail it to me.
I'll return on that if so is the case. Anyway I do have my own
thoughts on Teshnos, but they partly contradict the somewhat
uninspired writeup in the Genertela book. I might write it down
and post it later though.
_____
/Nils W