From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 15 Jun 1994, part 2 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk --------------------- From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson) Subject: Clockwork gods Message-ID: <9406141356.AA12259@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk> Date: 14 Jun 94 14:56:34 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4570 Devin writes: >>It's a sign that Babeester Gor temple guards have Sharp Axes. > >Obviously, but even were the guards to be gone, the man off of the street >still could not kneel down and say "Hey, I want an Axe Trance". Babs has >something (nay, everything) to say about it. This is debatable. As I see it, the Compromise rendered the Gods' decision making processes somewhat impotent. Fair enough, kneeling down and asking for a spell won't work; but then it wouldn't work just like that for a Priestess of Babeester Gor either. Getting magic from a god requires that appropriate rituals be performed. The Priestess knows these required procedures so she can get the spells she wants. If the man in the street knew the rituals then he too could get the same result. The fact that he doesn't know how to get a result is not the result of Divine Judgement; it's just plain ignorance. Remember, as a result of the Compromise, that the Gods have no free will. They're not omniscient either. They can't read your mind. So long as you carry out the correct rituals etc, they will respond accordingly "giving" you magic. This response to worship is like a reflex. They don't choose who is "worthy" and who is not. That kind of decision is in the hands of the priests of the cult. It is the priests who choose who should be initiated. (And they are fallible.) Once you're initiated you've pretty much got it made. The question is how many Orlanthi are likely to even *think* like this? The answer is probably fairly few because of the way they're brought up. Lunars, on the other hand, might be sufficiently cynical and enlightened. The GodLearners certainly were. Mind you, if an Orlanthi can get away with as much slacking as Sandy suggests then maybe he'd try it on with a second cult. And maybe a third... Anyway, the way I see it, the piety of a cult member is not likely to be governed by how he sees his god manifest in the mundane world (spells etc) because, like I said, the Compromise made the Gods somewhat impotent, predictable and... well... boring. What *might* fire an initiate's enthusiasm are tales of the exploits of his god on the GodPlane: there the gods have real passion and personality. But, since an initiate is unlikely to ever experience the GodPlane, his belief in these myths is a matter of Faith. As much as for any real-world religion. ___ CW. --------------------- From: mmlab!cookec%max.mml.mmc.com@uunet.uu.net (Chris Cooke) Subject: correction Message-ID:Date: 14 Jun 94 13:24:04 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4571 My correct Email address is cookec@mml.mmc.com. your last message bounced. thank you. -- /> Chris Cooke // (//////[O]>=========================================- \\ \> cookec@mml.mmc.com --------------------- From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson) Subject: corn and other food stuff Message-ID: <9406141432.AA12421@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk> Date: 14 Jun 94 15:32:50 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4572 Sandy asks: > Hokay, international dudes. What does "Corn" mean to you. I >know it can refer to any grain kernel, but what does it "normally" >mean? Corn is corn. *Sweet*corn is maize. Scottish (not Sartarite) crops: I think it's the low temperature rather than lack of sunshine which restricts Scottish crops: my wife's granny used to grow grapes and peaches in Orkney (which is pretty far north); she used a greenhouse. I reckon a casting of Bless Crops might do as good. In prehistoric times it was apparently warm enough to grow wheat in Orkney. Now it's too cold. Oats and barley only. Herding on foot: When the Game Police confiscate your motorbike; cast Mobility instead. Recipe: Try adding some porridge oats next time you cook chilli. It makes it stick to your ribs - like edible napalm. Mmmm. ___ CW. --------------------- From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) Subject: a little bit of fluff Message-ID: <9406141648.AA07928@idcube.idsoftware.com> Date: 14 Jun 94 04:48:07 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4573 Harald Smith writes a Jannisor story. Thanks, Harald. It has now joined the small but elite ranks of Gloranthan stories I keep perpetually on file. Dave mentions >>The Humakt subcult worshipped in Ralios is Makla Mann, who remained >>faithful to Arkat even after Arkat betrayed the cult. Jonas asks: >Yeah? Where's it say this? It's in the full Humakt writeup, as finalized by Your Humble Servant. Makla Mann is mine own invention, but I thought he sounded logical. I can't even remember what the spell is he offers the cult, but it might be Stop Resurrection (cast on a corpse for obvious results). Yan Starcere is a Humakti subcult better known in Peloria and Kethaela, who teaches Parry. And Hiia Swordsman, of course, is the pet Humakti subcult of the Grazelanders. He is even more strict and harsh than other Humakti sects, and grants the spell of Strongblade. Joe Lannom, referring to Arachne Solara, says: >She receives no worship on Glorantha's mundane plane, but what about >worship on the hero plane? There _are_ folks who've successfully worshiped Arachne Solara in Glorantha. All the ones I know of are hero-status entities, bolstering your theory. Dragon Pass boasts two: Ironhoof the Beastlord and Cragspider the Firewitch. Ironhoof maintains a society in which all the twisted half-men of Beast Valley "worship" Arachne Solara. IMO, their magic points and POW pass to Ironhoof himself, and from thence on to Arachne Solara. Cragspider's powers are undoubted. On the other hand, look at the poor thing! She used to be an ordinary uzuz. Now she's so hideously deformed as to be bordering on chaotic. I don't even think her humanoid portion looks trollish any more. I can only surmise that her horrible condition (which, admittedly, she doesn't seem to mind) is the result of having drawn a little too close to Arachne Solara during a quest. Probably also got her fire powers then. >Of course, trying to worship her might just get her attention >quicker. *shrug* Maybe she doesn't want worship.. just a snack. Note that the fact that some folks have successfully gotten powers from her doesn't mean that her main goal isn't lunch. Ironhoof and Cragspider may just have gotten close enough for some magic to rub off, but not close enough to be trapped (or they wriggled away at the last minute). Goddess only knows how many would-be heroes didn't make it. >What kind of spider might she be? She's gotta be an orb weaver of some type. A PLACE OF ADVENTURE THE TUNNELED HILLS The Tunneled Hills are a range of rocky badlands deep within Genert's Wastes. Some people say it was once a city, back during the Golden Age, and claim that the hillocks, stony spires, and natural arches of this region are all just eroded remnants of the buildings and wonders of this past glory. A less plausible, if more striking theory, is that the Tunneled Hills used to be the towers of the huge citadel atop the Plateau of Statues. When the city was wrecked, the towers fell northward, their rubble making the hills. Monsters have dens all through the Tunneled Hills, but there are a number of large valleys, in which permanent settlements of one type or another have sprung up. The most important of these valleys are listed below: GOGBAGIX: this valley is sited in the north "tip" of the Hills. It is completely surrounded by hills. It boasts a pool of brackish water, and there are a number of ruined buildings scattered around the valley, built of a green jade-like stone. Opportunities for investigating this semi-precious stone are few, because the valley is infested with scorpion men. These are desert scorpion men, whose biology is somewhat different from the norm in more humid areas. All the females of the tribe tend towards Queendom. They are slowgrowing, but gradually become large and obese. When a female reaches sufficient bulk, the scorpion men bring a prisoner to their new queen, who mates (for the first and last time in her life) with the prisoner, devours him in a Ritual of Rebirth, spawns a dozen or more eggs, each of which hatches into a tiny scorpion version of the prisoners' species, and then dies. MOSTAL'S GRAVEYARD: a valley just a few miles east of Only Safe (see below). Underground, 'tis inhabited primarily by mutant dwarfs, supposedly left here from the Godtime. Aboveground are only rocky fortresses, lava flows, and secretive chaos gremlins. ONLY SAFE: this is a valley sited on the western edge of the Tunneled Hills, and opening to the west. It is rather nearer the Plateau of Statues than otherwise. Only Safe is the main non-chaotic stronghold within the Hills, and is inhabited primarily by Storm Bulls, who have put up a sort of tent city here. They have a stockade facing west, for defense against nomads (young warriors sometimes raid here, hoping to steal beasts while their riders are off facing chaos), but as a matter of pride have no fixed defenses on the north, east, or south sides of the valley, where only chaos monsters ever enter. The Storm Bulls who live here have no real organization or rule, but are subject to no clan or tribe, much like the Storm Bulls who live atop the Block in Prax. Unlike the Block S.B.s, there are no permanent residents here, either. Typically, initiates spend a Week here. Advanced initiates spend a Season, and only Storm Khans spend an entire Year in the Hills. Once their time is up, the Storm Bulls return to their normal live, but can thereafter boast of having spent "a week" or whatever in the Hills. Normally, a group of Storm Bulls goes raiding almost every day into the Hills, seeking chaos to punish. Non-Storm Bulls that come by are sometimes enslaved, sometimes attacked, sometimes welcomed. It really depends on the mood of the Storm Khan who happens to be nearest to the action when the outsiders come by. THAN-ULBAR: the largest valley in the Tunneled Hills, this large area opens to the east. The desert to the east, between the Tunneled Hills and Iron Forts, is named "Demon's Country" on account of the beings from Than -Ulbar. The center of the valley is a huge extinct volcano, and a rude filthsome city crawls up its sides. Than-Ulbar is Glorantha's largest (known) Thanatar complex. Than is much more important here than Atyar, but the knowledge thief god is here, too. Thousands of entities live here, raiding the Wastes and the Hills for heads. Hunting parties travel as far afield as Kralorela in search of trophies. This, perhaps the only Great Temple to Thanatar in Genertela, is strictly and thoroughly organized. The minions are strictly organized according to their geases. The "King" of Than-Ulbar is a giant, boasting a hand-picked bodyguard of twelve jack o'bears, captured from Kralorela, indoctrinated into the cult, and specially trained for service. The common rumor about the "King" is that he has, within the volcano, the actual skull of Tien itself! This is not true. The "King" does have, however, the severed head/skull of the volcano spirit, from which he gains (A) immense power and (B) assurance that the volcano won't ever return to life. If the head could somehow be freed from the "King", and the spirit released, perhaps the volcano could erupt and cleanse the area of the centuries-old curse of Than. Unfortunately, no one (yet) knows the secret of the head except some of the high-ranking Thanatar cult members. --------------------- From: SYS_RSH%PV0A@hobbes.cca.rockwell.com (Official Heat Sink) Subject: No Eurmal on the Moon Message-ID: <01HDJ6BJ4EXU8WXST5@hobbes.cca.rockwell.com> Date: 14 Jun 94 07:28:09 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4574 >>I was running down the Seven Mothers-Light Bringers parallel when I >>noticed that the Lunars don't really have a Eurmal/Trickster analog. > >As I have argued before, this is because the Red Goddess is just one of >Trickster's masks, and the Empire is one big Illusion that Eurmal has set >up to distract Orlanth long enough to get out from under his thumb... I like that one. Of course, it might just be that the Red Goddess doesn't want someone collecting Crimson Guano for some cosmically odiferous practical joke. "Hey, gang! What's red and sounds like a bell?" --Scott --------------------- From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK Subject: Soldiers equipment and bits Message-ID: <9406141733.AA27719@Sun.COM> Date: 14 Jun 94 16:08:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4575 Hi All S. Jones commented that the Greeks were not a Good model for Lunars, especially with regard to what their soldiers wore and their fighting style. I second this opinion and support the *well known* view that a Greek would rather fight with the but spike of his spear if iw was broken than use his sword. Their swords must have been awful! I see the Greeks as a better model for Sun Dome Templars (Hoplite shield, bloody big spear and plate on exposed locations). Obviously these heavy hoplite units need to be supported by lighter more mobile infanty (militia peltasts) and also missile troops (bow armed infantry and light cavalry), I do not see the SDers as using heavy cavalry (they would get slaughtered if they tried it in Prax as the bisons and rhinos make FAR better shock mounts). Obviously this is not the whole story as the SDs use pikes (with hoplite shields!) which are a Macedonian invention. Still this is all Greek/Later Greek stuff so it is not to far out. For the Lunars I would use Republican Romans with the three way mix of Hasta, Princeps and Triarii (have I got any of these right?) supported by Velites (peltasts) and other exotica. This gives the mixture of troop types which can be seen around the empire and underpins the flexibility of the Lunar military system. I am unconvinced about the ubiquity of the scimitar in the Lunar army. Sure all the Officers wear them, but can you imagine close order infantry using them? I see expensive swords being used by cavalry and officers but not by rank and file close order infantry. Spears are much cheaper and more effective for close order troops. My idea about the lunars is that they are the first people in the region to combine infantry and heavy cavalry. Dara Happans had NO cavalry only chariots (both heavy and light). Yelmalians developed horse archers (or stole the idea from the Pentans) and also used to use light chariots (ref: Yamsur & the Dragon...) Perhaps the horse archers replaced the light chariots. There is no point in the using heavy cavalry in Prax or near Esrolia so perhaps they have never developed it. On the subject of Dara Happans I believe that the Assyrians or Babylonians or Homeric Greeks are a good model. Heavy infantry armed with spears supported by lighted troops with Chariots used as the mobile strike force. And also the beards are a MUST. Enough prattle Lewis --------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson) Subject: Let Sam through - He's a desparate undergrad Message-ID: <9406141857.AA18180@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 14 Jun 94 18:57:31 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4577 Sam "Negative Cashflow" Phillips: > Alex: > >Varmandi: KoS seems to imply they retook Tarkalor's keep, and possibly > >some of Ormthane Valley. Plus some of the land north of the Swan River, > >and probably Redbird and at least some of the Brambleberry Hills. > I play that the Malani hold redbird. Don't ask me why - I think I *did* have > a reason. Darned if I can think of it now, though. That'd be my Backup Guess. All depends on the outcome of the Zarran Wars. Anyone have any data? > Anyway, just a wee posting today. Got to go and see the bank manager and taste > carpet fluff and shoe polish. He's a hard man ;-) can anyone lend me a tenner? Yes. Can anyone lend me a copy of Pavis? (I'm a hard man too.) Alex. --------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson) Subject: Helering cats and dogs. Message-ID: <9406141858.AA18188@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 14 Jun 94 18:58:22 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4578 Henk the List: > This identification is quite true. One of the most > severe acts of trust and affection is for a cat to > lift its tail into your face, expecting you to lick its ... Ahem, yes, well. > The frequent 'kneading' is similar, the cat considers its > human as a 'dry nurse'... Plus of course "head butting", which is a greeting used on other cats. To do with the different scent glands, I think. Of course, cats also often rub their flanks against their owner's legs (or the legs of anyone likely to feed them...) which is (if memory serves) a property-marking gesture. > Obligatory RQ/Gloranthan Extrapolation: Sorry, > can't think of anything now. Well, what about the consequences of being kneaded by a SIZ 6 alnyx? "Owch! No claws!" Sandy: > Konrad Lorenz, the noted behaviorist, believed that > dogs stem from _two_ root stocks -- the golden jackal and the wolf. > [...] Even if there is > no jackal (or no wolf) blood in modern dogs, the two personality > mixtures seem to hold true. But the reasons for it sound pretty duff: alsatians look a darn sight more wolf than jackal, and not all malamutes each children for breakfast. > Another thing to remember is that it is perfectly possible to > breed personality traits into animals. The Hispanics have been doing > it for decades with their fighting bulls. This is a bit like breeding a cat for laziness and reluctance to get wet. > He succeeded, and today bulldogs are nice mild-mannered > things, suitable for children. They're still tough and tenacious, and > the worst possible news in a dog fight, but they're not mean. Probably because they have so much difficulty breathing that getting into fits is a bit too much like aerobic exercise. > Now, one may ask. Why is the Snow Line moving north. Very > simply, because of the success of the Lunar cult of Kalikos > Icebreaker. This cult has been weakening Valind for centuries, > keeping him from battling over Peloria with his brother Orlanth. > This, of course, weakens both Valind _and_ Orlanth (and other storm > gods who'd have participated, too). Not really: Orlanth is a sub-tropical depression, doncha know? ;-) My clan looked unhappy when I pointed this out: what do you thing they are doing outside with that barrel of tar and pile of feathers? Of course the Molanni cult would act to suppress Orlanth, as to some extent does Yelm, so the same could be said. > One result is that there is less > precipitation in the Rockwoods, and less cold winters. Another is > that the Snow Line moves inexorably north. And another is that the > horse barbarians are going to have to move west, away from Praxian > pressure. Funny how things work out in the end. Absolutely. On the other hand, they've been looking for an opportunity/ excuse to do this since -- well, since the last time, really. Okay, with a short pause after getting their Horses Eaten by The Bastard Demoness. > My hero. I've noticed a definite tendency towards > "revisionism" in the Digest ever since I first started writing here. [...] > Nowadays it seems to take the form of demonizing various Gloranthan > organizations which had heretofore not been portrayed as villainous. Or humanising them? When the Defender of Orthodoxy and the Devil's Advocate are on the same side, as they now purport themselves to be on Loskalm, one has to smell a whitewash. > Paul Reilly assays: > >Lon-Eel ... has a strange book about how everything will be > >wonderful once the Empire rules the world. Once the borders of the > >Empire and the Universe are the same, the Crimson Bat will no longer > >be Chaotic... > Do you have titles for either of these books? The Coming of the White Moon, illustrated (and illuminated) edition? > (the players are new to Glorantha, but they've already > learned the Truth About Scorpion Men -- i.e., fight or flight) Nonsense. They just need to be Freed from their Hate ((Everything) passion). Alex. --------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson) Subject: Eurmal the Assassin? Message-ID: <9406141859.AA18196@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 14 Jun 94 18:59:19 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4579 Joerg: > > If Eurmal was a Murderer, there should be a myth of him killing someone/thing. > Eurmal eating all the baby Raccoons fairly fits this bill, doesn't it? Not really: this is Eating, not Murder, though I'm sure this seemed a slim distinction to said raccoonlets. There may not be a published/existing Murderer type myth, but there's no reason why some enterprising soul can't make one up. [Later:] Peter Michaels: > After leaving Hell with his broken, twisted penis, Weasel met > up with Grandfather Mortal. Weasel had tricked Grandfather > Mortal in the past, and had used his penis on him before. > Weasel tried to do so again, hoping this would straighted his > penis out and make it work again. Instead, he felt nothing and > Grandfather Mortal cried out in great pain and died. He told > Weasel,"You have killed me. Now I must go to Hell," and left. > Weasel was frightened by this, and began a great wailing. Well, well, quick (if not time-travelling) work! A Trickster Murderer myth. ;-) Prospective worshippers are accordingly referred to Duck Valley. Alex.