Bell Digest v940615p2

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 15 Jun 1994, part 2
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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Precedence: junk


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From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Clockwork gods
Message-ID: <9406141356.AA12259@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: 14 Jun 94 14:56:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4570


Devin writes:
>>It's a sign that Babeester Gor temple guards have Sharp Axes.
>
>Obviously, but even were the guards to be gone, the man off of the street
>still could not kneel down and say "Hey, I want an Axe Trance". Babs has
>something (nay, everything) to say about it.

This is debatable.
As I see it, the Compromise rendered the Gods' decision making processes
somewhat impotent.

Fair enough, kneeling down and asking for a spell won't work; but then
it wouldn't work just like that for a Priestess of Babeester Gor either.
Getting magic from a god requires that appropriate rituals be performed.
The Priestess knows these required procedures so she can get the spells
she wants. If the man in the street knew the rituals then he too could
get the same result. The fact that he doesn't know how to get a result
is not the result of Divine Judgement; it's just plain ignorance.

Remember, as a result of the Compromise, that the Gods have no free will.
They're not omniscient either. They can't read your mind. So long as you 
carry out the correct rituals etc, they will respond accordingly "giving" you
magic. This response to worship is like a reflex. They don't choose who
is "worthy" and who is not. That kind of decision is in the hands of the
priests of the cult. It is the priests who choose who should be initiated.
(And they are fallible.) Once you're initiated you've pretty much got it made.

The question is how many Orlanthi are likely to even *think* like this?
The answer is probably fairly few because of the way they're brought
up. Lunars, on the other hand, might be sufficiently cynical and
enlightened. The GodLearners certainly were.

Mind you, if an Orlanthi can get away with as much slacking as Sandy
suggests then maybe he'd try it on with a second cult. And maybe a
third...

Anyway, the way I see it, the piety of a cult member is not likely to
be governed by how he sees his god manifest in the mundane world (spells etc)
because, like I said, the Compromise made the Gods somewhat impotent,
predictable and... well... boring. What *might* fire an initiate's
enthusiasm are tales of the exploits of his god on the GodPlane: there the
gods have real passion and personality. But, since an initiate is unlikely
to ever experience the GodPlane, his belief in these myths is a matter of
Faith. As much as for any real-world religion.

___
CW.

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From: mmlab!cookec%max.mml.mmc.com@uunet.uu.net (Chris Cooke)
Subject: correction
Message-ID: 
Date: 14 Jun 94 13:24:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4571

My correct Email address is cookec@mml.mmc.com.   your last message bounced.
thank you.
--

                />        Chris Cooke 
               //       
       (//////[O]>=========================================-
               \\      
                \>      cookec@mml.mmc.com  

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From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: corn and other food stuff
Message-ID: <9406141432.AA12421@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: 14 Jun 94 15:32:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4572

Sandy asks:
>	Hokay, international dudes. What does "Corn" mean to you. I  
>know it can refer to any grain kernel, but what does it "normally"  
>mean?

Corn is corn.
*Sweet*corn is maize.

Scottish (not Sartarite) crops:
I think it's the low temperature rather than lack of sunshine which restricts
Scottish crops: my wife's granny used to grow grapes and peaches in Orkney
(which is pretty far north); she used a greenhouse. I reckon a casting of
Bless Crops might do as good.

In prehistoric times it was apparently warm enough to grow wheat in Orkney.
Now it's too cold. Oats and barley only.

Herding on foot:
When the Game Police confiscate your motorbike; cast Mobility instead.

Recipe:
Try adding some porridge oats next time you cook chilli. It makes it stick
to your ribs - like edible napalm. Mmmm.

___
CW.

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From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: a little bit of fluff
Message-ID: <9406141648.AA07928@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 14 Jun 94 04:48:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4573

Harald Smith writes a Jannisor story.
	Thanks, Harald. It has now joined the small but elite ranks  
of Gloranthan stories I keep perpetually on file. 


Dave mentions
>>The Humakt subcult worshipped in Ralios is Makla Mann, who remained
>>faithful to Arkat even after Arkat betrayed the cult.
Jonas asks:
>Yeah? Where's it say this?
	It's in the full Humakt writeup, as finalized by Your Humble  
Servant. Makla Mann is mine own invention, but I thought he sounded  
logical. I can't even remember what the spell is he offers the cult,  
but it might be Stop Resurrection (cast on a corpse for obvious  
results). Yan Starcere is a Humakti subcult better known in Peloria  
and Kethaela, who teaches Parry. And Hiia Swordsman, of course, is  
the pet Humakti subcult of the Grazelanders. He is even more strict  
and harsh than other Humakti sects, and grants the spell of  
Strongblade. 


Joe Lannom, referring to Arachne Solara, says:
>She receives no worship on Glorantha's mundane plane, but what about  
>worship on the hero plane?
	There _are_ folks who've successfully worshiped Arachne  
Solara in Glorantha. All the ones I know of are hero-status entities,  
bolstering your theory. Dragon Pass boasts two: Ironhoof the  
Beastlord and Cragspider the Firewitch. 

	Ironhoof maintains a society in which all the twisted  
half-men of Beast Valley "worship" Arachne Solara. IMO, their magic  
points and POW pass to Ironhoof himself, and from thence on to  
Arachne Solara. 

	Cragspider's powers are undoubted. On the other hand, look at  
the poor thing! She used to be an ordinary uzuz. Now she's so  
hideously deformed as to be bordering on chaotic. I don't even think  
her humanoid portion looks trollish any more. I can only surmise that  
her horrible condition (which, admittedly, she doesn't seem to mind)  
is the result of having drawn a little too close to Arachne Solara  
during a quest. Probably also got her fire powers then.

>Of course, trying to worship her might just get her attention  

>quicker.  *shrug*  Maybe she doesn't want worship.. just a snack.
	Note that the fact that some folks have successfully gotten  
powers from her doesn't mean that her main goal isn't lunch. Ironhoof  
and Cragspider may just have gotten close enough for some magic to  
rub off, but not close enough to be trapped (or they wriggled away at  
the last minute). Goddess only knows  how many would-be heroes didn't  
make it.

>What kind of spider might she be?
	She's gotta be an orb weaver of some type.

A PLACE OF ADVENTURE

THE TUNNELED HILLS
	The Tunneled Hills are a range of rocky badlands deep within  
Genert's Wastes. Some people say it was once a city, back during the  
Golden Age, and claim that the hillocks, stony spires, and natural  
arches of this region are all just eroded remnants of the buildings  
and wonders of this past glory. 

	A less plausible, if more striking theory, is that the  
Tunneled Hills used to be the towers of the huge citadel atop the  
Plateau of Statues. When the city was wrecked, the towers fell  
northward, their rubble making the hills. 

	Monsters have dens all through the Tunneled Hills, but there  
are a number of large valleys, in which permanent settlements of one  
type or another have sprung up. The most important of these valleys  
are listed below:

GOGBAGIX: this valley is sited in the north "tip" of the Hills. It is  
completely surrounded by hills. It boasts a pool of brackish water,  
and there are a number of ruined buildings scattered around the  
valley, built of a green jade-like stone. Opportunities for  
investigating this semi-precious stone are few, because the valley is  
infested with scorpion men. These are desert scorpion men, whose  
biology is somewhat different from the norm in more humid areas. All  
the females of the tribe tend towards Queendom. They are slowgrowing,  
but gradually become large and obese. When a female reaches  
sufficient bulk, the scorpion men bring a prisoner to their new  
queen, who mates (for the first and last time in her life) with the  
prisoner, devours him in a Ritual of Rebirth, spawns a dozen or more  
eggs, each of which hatches into a tiny scorpion version of the  
prisoners' species, and then dies. 


MOSTAL'S GRAVEYARD: a valley just a few miles east of Only Safe (see  
below). Underground, 'tis inhabited primarily by mutant dwarfs,  
supposedly left here from the Godtime. Aboveground are only rocky  
fortresses, lava flows, and secretive chaos gremlins. 


ONLY SAFE: this is a valley sited on the western edge of the Tunneled  
Hills, and opening to the west. It is rather nearer the Plateau of  
Statues than otherwise. Only Safe is the main non-chaotic stronghold  
within the Hills, and is inhabited primarily by Storm Bulls, who have  
put up a sort of tent city here. They have a stockade facing west,  
for defense against nomads (young warriors sometimes raid here,  
hoping to steal beasts while their riders are off facing chaos), but  
as a matter of pride have no fixed defenses on the north, east, or  
south sides of the valley, where only chaos monsters ever enter. 

	The Storm Bulls who live here have no real organization or  
rule, but are subject to no clan or tribe, much like the Storm Bulls  
who live atop the Block in Prax. Unlike the Block S.B.s, there are no  
permanent residents  here, either. Typically, initiates spend a Week  
here. Advanced initiates spend a Season, and only Storm Khans spend  
an entire Year in the Hills. Once their time is up, the Storm Bulls  
return to their normal live, but can thereafter boast of having spent  
"a week" or whatever in the Hills. 

	Normally, a group of Storm Bulls goes raiding almost every  
day into the Hills, seeking chaos to punish. Non-Storm Bulls that  
come by are sometimes enslaved, sometimes attacked, sometimes  
welcomed. It really depends on the mood of the Storm Khan who happens  
to be nearest to the action when the outsiders come by.

THAN-ULBAR: the largest valley in the Tunneled Hills, this large area  
opens to the east. The desert to the east, between the Tunneled Hills  
and Iron Forts, is named "Demon's Country" on account of the beings  
from Than -Ulbar. The center of the valley is a huge extinct volcano,  
and a rude filthsome city crawls up its sides. Than-Ulbar is  
Glorantha's largest (known) Thanatar complex. Than is much more  
important here than Atyar, but the knowledge thief god is here, too.  
Thousands of entities live here, raiding the Wastes and the Hills for  
heads. Hunting parties travel as far afield as Kralorela in search of  
trophies. 

	This, perhaps the only Great Temple to Thanatar in Genertela,  
is strictly and thoroughly organized. The minions are strictly  
organized according to their geases. 

	The "King" of Than-Ulbar is a giant, boasting a hand-picked  
bodyguard of twelve jack o'bears, captured from Kralorela,  
indoctrinated into the cult, and specially trained for service. The  
common rumor about the "King" is that he has, within the volcano, the  
actual skull of Tien itself! This is not true. The "King" does have,  
however, the severed head/skull of the volcano spirit, from which he  
gains (A) immense power and (B) assurance that the volcano won't ever  
return to life. If the head could somehow be freed from the "King",  
and the spirit released, perhaps the volcano could erupt and cleanse  
the area of the centuries-old curse of Than. Unfortunately, no one  
(yet) knows the secret of the head except some of the high-ranking  
Thanatar cult members. 



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From: SYS_RSH%PV0A@hobbes.cca.rockwell.com (Official Heat Sink)
Subject: No Eurmal on the Moon
Message-ID: <01HDJ6BJ4EXU8WXST5@hobbes.cca.rockwell.com>
Date: 14 Jun 94 07:28:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4574

>>I was running down the Seven Mothers-Light Bringers parallel when I
>>noticed that the Lunars don't really have a Eurmal/Trickster analog.
>
>As I have argued before, this is because the Red Goddess is just one of
>Trickster's masks, and the Empire is one big Illusion that Eurmal has set
>up to distract Orlanth long enough to get out from under his thumb...


I like that one.  Of course, it might just be that the Red Goddess
doesn't want someone collecting Crimson Guano for some cosmically
odiferous practical joke.  "Hey, gang!  What's red and sounds like
a bell?"


--Scott

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From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Soldiers equipment and bits
Message-ID: <9406141733.AA27719@Sun.COM>
Date: 14 Jun 94 16:08:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4575


Hi All
	S. Jones commented that the Greeks were not a Good model for Lunars, 
especially with regard to what their soldiers wore and their fighting style. 
I second this opinion and support the *well known* view that a Greek would 
rather fight with the but spike of his spear if iw was broken than use his 
sword.  Their swords must have been awful!  I see the Greeks as a better 
model for Sun Dome Templars (Hoplite shield, bloody big spear and plate on 
exposed locations).  Obviously these heavy hoplite units need to be supported 
by lighter more mobile infanty (militia peltasts) and also missile troops 
(bow armed infantry and light cavalry), I do not see the SDers as using 
heavy cavalry (they would get slaughtered if they tried it in Prax as the 
bisons and rhinos make FAR better shock mounts).  Obviously this is not the 
whole story as the SDs use pikes (with hoplite shields!) which are a 
Macedonian invention.  Still this is all Greek/Later Greek stuff so it is not 
to far out.  

	For the Lunars I would use Republican Romans with the three way mix of 
Hasta, Princeps and Triarii (have I got any of these right?) supported by 
Velites (peltasts) and other exotica.  This gives the mixture of troop types 
which can be seen around the empire and underpins the flexibility of the Lunar 
military system.  

	I am unconvinced about the ubiquity of the scimitar in the Lunar army.  Sure all the Officers wear them, but can you imagine close order infantry 
using them?  I see expensive swords being used by cavalry and officers but 
not by rank and file close order infantry.  Spears are much cheaper and more 
effective for close order troops.  My idea about the lunars is that they 
are the first people in the region to combine infantry and heavy cavalry.  

	Dara Happans had NO cavalry only chariots (both heavy and light).  
Yelmalians developed horse archers (or stole the idea from the Pentans) and 
also used to use light chariots (ref: Yamsur & the Dragon...)  Perhaps the 
horse archers replaced the light chariots.  There is no point in the using 
heavy cavalry in Prax or near Esrolia so perhaps they have never developed it.

	On the subject of Dara Happans I believe that the Assyrians or 
Babylonians or Homeric Greeks are a good model.  Heavy infantry armed with 
spears supported by lighted troops with Chariots used as the mobile strike 
force.  And also the beards are a MUST.

	Enough prattle
			Lewis

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From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Let Sam through - He's a desparate undergrad
Message-ID: <9406141857.AA18180@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 14 Jun 94 18:57:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4577


Sam "Negative Cashflow" Phillips:
> Alex:
> >Varmandi:  KoS seems to imply they retook Tarkalor's keep, and possibly
> >some of Ormthane Valley.  Plus some of the land north of the Swan River,
> >and probably Redbird and at least some of the Brambleberry Hills.

> I play that the Malani hold redbird. Don't ask me why - I think I *did* have
> a reason. Darned if I can think of it now, though.

That'd be my Backup Guess.  All depends on the outcome of the Zarran Wars.
Anyone have any data?

> Anyway, just a wee posting today. Got to go and see the bank manager and taste
> carpet fluff and shoe polish. He's a hard man ;-) can anyone lend me a tenner?

Yes.  Can anyone lend me a copy of Pavis?    (I'm a hard man
too.)

Alex.

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From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Helering cats and dogs.
Message-ID: <9406141858.AA18188@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 14 Jun 94 18:58:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4578


Henk the List:
> This identification is quite true.  One of the most
> severe acts of trust and affection is for a cat to
> lift its tail into your face, expecting you to lick its ...

Ahem, yes, well.

> The frequent 'kneading' is similar, the cat considers its
> human as a 'dry nurse'...

Plus of course "head butting", which is a greeting used on other cats.
To do with the different scent glands, I think.  Of course, cats also
often rub their flanks against their owner's legs (or the legs of anyone
likely to feed them...)  which is (if memory serves) a property-marking
gesture.

> Obligatory RQ/Gloranthan Extrapolation: Sorry, 
> can't think of anything now.

Well, what about the consequences of being kneaded by a SIZ 6 alnyx?
"Owch!  No claws!"

Sandy:
> Konrad Lorenz, the noted behaviorist, believed that  
> dogs stem from _two_ root stocks -- the golden jackal and the wolf.  
> [...]  Even if there is  
> no jackal (or no wolf) blood in modern dogs, the two personality  
> mixtures seem to hold true. 

But the reasons for it sound pretty duff: alsatians look a darn sight more
wolf than jackal, and not all malamutes each children for breakfast.

> 	Another thing to remember is that it is perfectly possible to  
> breed personality traits into animals. The Hispanics have been doing  
> it for decades with their fighting bulls.

This is a bit like breeding a cat for laziness and reluctance to get wet.

> He succeeded, and today bulldogs are nice mild-mannered  
> things, suitable for children. They're still tough and tenacious, and  
> the worst possible news in a dog fight, but they're not mean.

Probably because they have so much difficulty breathing that getting into
fits is a bit too much like aerobic exercise.

> 	Now, one may ask. Why is the Snow Line moving north. Very  
> simply, because of the success of the Lunar cult of Kalikos  
> Icebreaker. This cult has been weakening Valind for centuries,  
> keeping him from battling over Peloria with his brother Orlanth.  
> This, of course, weakens both Valind _and_ Orlanth (and other storm  
> gods who'd have participated, too).

Not really: Orlanth is a sub-tropical depression, doncha know? ;-)  My
clan looked unhappy when I pointed this out: what do you thing they are
doing outside with that barrel of tar and pile of feathers?

Of course the Molanni cult would act to suppress Orlanth, as to some extent
does Yelm, so the same could be said.

> One result is that there is less  
> precipitation in the Rockwoods, and less cold winters. Another is  
> that the Snow Line moves inexorably north. And another is that the  
> horse barbarians are going to have to move west, away from Praxian  
> pressure. Funny how things work out in the end. 

Absolutely.  On the other hand, they've been looking for an opportunity/
excuse to do this since -- well, since the last time, really.  Okay, with
a short pause after getting their Horses Eaten by The Bastard Demoness.

> 	My hero. I've noticed a definite tendency towards  
> "revisionism" in the Digest ever since I first started writing here.  
[...] 
> Nowadays it seems to take the form of demonizing various Gloranthan  
> organizations which had heretofore not been portrayed as villainous. 

Or humanising them?  When the Defender of Orthodoxy and the Devil's
Advocate are on the same side, as they now purport themselves to be on
Loskalm, one has to smell a whitewash.

> Paul Reilly assays:
> >Lon-Eel ... has a strange book about how everything will be  
> >wonderful once the Empire rules the world.  Once the borders of the  
> >Empire and the Universe are the same, the Crimson Bat will no longer  
> >be Chaotic... 
> 	Do you have titles for either of these books?

The Coming of the White Moon, illustrated (and illuminated) edition?

> (the players are new to Glorantha, but they've already  
> learned the Truth About Scorpion Men -- i.e., fight or flight)

Nonsense.  They just need to be Freed from their Hate ((Everything) passion).

Alex.

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From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Eurmal the Assassin?
Message-ID: <9406141859.AA18196@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 14 Jun 94 18:59:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4579


Joerg:
> > If Eurmal was a Murderer, there should be a myth of him killing someone/thing.

> Eurmal eating all the baby Raccoons fairly fits this bill, doesn't it?

Not really: this is Eating, not Murder, though I'm sure this seemed a slim
distinction to said raccoonlets.  There may not be a published/existing
Murderer type myth, but there's no reason why some enterprising soul can't
make one up.  

[Later:]
Peter Michaels:
>  After leaving Hell with his broken, twisted penis, Weasel met 
> up with Grandfather Mortal.  Weasel had tricked Grandfather 
> Mortal in the past, and had used his penis on him before.  
> Weasel tried to do so again, hoping this would straighted his 
> penis out and make it work again.  Instead, he felt nothing and 
> Grandfather Mortal cried out in great pain and died.  He told 
> Weasel,"You have killed me.  Now I must go to Hell," and left.  
> Weasel was frightened by this, and began a great wailing.

Well, well, quick (if not time-travelling) work!  A Trickster Murderer myth.
;-)  Prospective worshippers are accordingly referred to Duck Valley.

Alex.