Bell Digest v940617p2

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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 17 Jun 1994, part 2
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From: (Dogs Playing Poker)
Subject: Kingdom of War, Huh, What is it good for?
Message-ID: <>
Date: 16 Jun 94 16:19:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4632

Kingdom of War Troop Organization

I like the idea of the army of the Kow divided up by religion. It makes for
a lot better role-playing. If you have the 5th Lead Cross Humakti ordered to
take a hill supported by the War Demon Cavalry and the Legion of the Tapped,
you get the interaction as the religions try to outdo each other and move
up and down the pecking order, mixed with the politics of war. Which unit do
you sacifice? Which unit do you reinforce? What happens when two of your own 
units decide to have at it? The best tactic for countering the Kow is to
frame one of the religious groups behind the lines for some atrocity ("What, all
of our healers dead from sword blows") and set them upon each other.
This is not the kind of warfare I would expect from the knights however.Maybe
the thieves though.

Eurmal - The Killing Joke

I believe that Eurmal in his various myths has tried every excess offered in
behavior. Murder he tried but he rejected it because it wasn't amusing. I
would expect a Eurmal worshipper try to indulge in the excesses that Eurmal
enjoyed. Lust, Drinking, and Overeating have been tried and found amusing.
You could kill someone in an amusing fashion and that would be acceptable.
[The giant troll warrior screamed and charged the Orlanthi. All fled except
Goganth the Fool. The outraged troll stopped, and stood in front of the unarmed
man bellowing his fiercest war cry. Goganth grabbed the startled troll and
swallowed him whole. "That's the problem with giant troll warriors" said
Goganth as he picked his teeth. " An hour later and you're hungry again"]

Heroquesting - Giving Arachne Solaris Two Weeks Notice

In regards to giving up heroquesting, remember that if you make an enemy or
enemies, they aren't giving up on heroquesting. And what better way to finish
an important heroquest than to have my old enemy witness your triumph. In that
respect by heroquesting you are being drawn into another web worse than that
of Arachne Solaris.


From: (Kirsten K. Niemann)
Subject: Sneaky conversion
Message-ID: <>
Date: 16 Jun 94 19:59:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4633

Mike Dawson here, not Kirsten Niemann.

Way back on June 2nd, Neil Robinson wrote:

" Does anyone have any hints about a good way to get the character
converted and have the player start realizing it only once it has
happened.  The player is reasonably experienced but may have the
character 'back out' inappropriately if I handle it too harshly."

There is one simple method I recommend. Portray at least some of the
Lunars involved with the student as sympathetic, friendly,
reasonable people who care about the PC student. Have them offer to
buy a beer now and then, invite them to parties, to sporting events,
all the sorts of things that real people use to build up a

If the PC and the NPC end up with an ocassional problem to overcome
together, that's even better. Making strangers cooperate to overcome
a problem is one of the most common motivational tricks used by
drill instructors and Ourward Bound group leaders to build "party

Much of this might work best as a few short solo vingettes. That way
the Lunar-hating other PCs can't make snide comments.

Oh, a few pretty lunar girls in the class might go a long way, (pun
intended) to making the character more interested in the Lunar Way,
if you know what I mean.

Now, all the above said, you have to decide something else. Pavis is
a hardship post for most Lunars, one where reasonable, personable,
open and friendly types usually don't get sent. you need to decide
if any people the PCs would like might actually end up in Pavis.

Of course, all those nice, friendly folks who are so concerned with
the welfare of the PC might be the equivalent of Moonie recruiters,
with high fast talk skills, weekly petty cash issued to buy drinks,
and daily meetings with indoctrination officers to see the progress
of the latest marks.

Mike Dawson


Gloranthophiles need to contact me at
for information about Codex Magazine.
UK Gloranthophiles write to
"Inquiries into the nature and secrets of Glorantha"   .


From: (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: stuff
Message-ID: <>
Date: 16 Jun 94 09:48:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4634

>The praise-singer in African culture is there to praise and honour  
>the chief/king whenever he appears in public. The imboyngi has an  
>important role in the society as he honours not >only his chief, but  
>also his ancestors and through this the tribe.  He instills a sense  
>of pride and belonging and can be a very powerful manipulator of  
>emotions through his oratory.
	Sounds good to me. I'm installing him in most of my own  
Doraddi tribes. 

> If I were a skeptical Gloranthan, or one from a non-Daka Fal  
>tradition, would I be convinced by a gibbering travesty of a ghost  
>that the spirit survives death without any change?
	"See, my child, the awful fate that awaits those who die  
without assurance of Orlanth's mercy."
	The fact that a change awaits those who dies doesn't meant  
the part of the spirit is necessarily missing. I'd rather have the  
subdivided soul beliefs be restricted to a minority of sects. It's my  
belief that the Individualist dwarfs believe in a subdivided soul --  
the POW and MPs go to fuel the World Machine, and the personality, if  
strongly enough developed, goes Elsewhere. 

>> Second, having female magicians is not the same as having female  
Alex sez:
>I'm afraid it pretty much is, if it's only proper to use magic in  
>the context of worship of the Invisible God, the standard Western  

	I don't think this is the Standard Western Line at all, given  
that peasants and knights are able to use sorcery among both the  
Rokari and the Hrestoli. I don't think that the sorcery performed by  
magicians is considered "Sacred" in the same way that Orlanth's Rune  
spells are sacred manifestations of their deity. The Invisible Gods'  
manifestations are "subtler" i.e., not so obvious. The Westerners  
know that any random student can learn perfectly competent sorcery. 

	Now, obviously someone who is trained in Malkioni theology is  
going to use his magic ethically (this is the Western line here guys,  
don't bring up the many exceptions). In the same manner, a Knight who  
is loyal to the Invisible God should only use his powers for Right  
and Good.
	I don't think that the Westerners think of sorcery as being  
particularly sacred at all -- it's just a useful tool that they're  
best at. I think it's regarded as rather secular, except for the  
fancier rites, such as worship, burial, etc. 

	Hence, I believe that Hrestoli and Rokari women are permitted  
to learn all the magic they qualify for, whether or not they're  
allowed to officiate at religious ceremonies. So there, nyah.

>As for a female Talar, get back to me on this immediately after the  
>World's Greatest Democracy elects a woman president.
	Now see here, wiseass. Having a female King of Loskalm is NOT  
the same as having a female Talar somewhere. I live in a state  
(Texas), boasting a female governor. We have female senators. We have  
female cabinet members. Obviously the U.S. of A. is grossly  
chauvinistic, but we DO have female rulers. My belief is that so do  
the Hrestoli, though probably not (even) as many as 20th-century U.S.
	Besides, the Hrestoli are English-equivalents, not U.S.  
equivalents, and _they've_ had female rulers. PM & Queen.

>Aren't you trying to have your Monomyth and beat up on it, Sandy?   
>Orlanth killed Yelm everywhere, but in some places it was before the  
>entrance of chaos, and other places it was after? 

	I face the contradictions head-on. I neither deny the  
Monomyth's truth, nor do I deny the truth of local variations. So  
there. My personal beliefs are full of contradictions -- why can't be  
Gloranthan beliefs be the same?

>> Eurmal is known and worshiped along the Pamaltelan coast,  

>>he's the same entity that is worshiped in Sartar. 

>He is?  How can we tell?
	The God Learners said he was. Modern Pamaltelan scholars  
generally agree. So who are you, little man, to argue? After all,  
Eurmal tricksters that worship in the Pamaltelan shrines get Rune  

>why is Eurmal "credited" for the Jelmre, which are pretty much an  
>Interior phenomenon?
	The Six-Legged Empire made the connection, showing that the  
Catsup Slob and the Jelmre Creator were the same being. 

Paul Snow: 

>Does being illuminated give you are greter or lesser understanding  
>of the importance of Arachne Solara?
	Less, my son, because you become solipsistic and thus  
ignorant of the World Outside, projecting your own needs and emotions  
onto other beings and creations. -- Malkioni wizard
	More, my son, because you now realize that there is no  
difference between yourself and the rest of the universe. It is all  
the same. Your will _is_ Arachne Solara's. -- Lunar Examiner
	There is no change, my son, because being illuminated affects  
_you_, not Arachne Solara -- Kralori Exarch

re: Eurmal the Murderer
	I think it is mythically important that Humakt be the First  
Killer. Greg once told me that the first words Humakt spoke after  
slaying Grandfather Mortal were: "What the hell? It wasn't supposed  
to do THAT!" The implications re: Eurmal are quite fine indeed. 

Kevin Rose, quoting Greg to stymie Sandy, points out: 

"Unlike divination, divine intervention can work in an enemy 

	I could try to weasel my way out of it and point out that  
"enemy stronghold" and "enemy holy ground" are different things, but  
I'll only say that my house rules hold that enemy holy ground cannot  
be DIed within. I have found this useful on MANY occasions,  
especially for guys who can't afford slave collars. Those who prefer  
other interpretations of the RQ rules are welcome to play in the  
funnest possible way for their campaign. 

Kevin goes on:
>Actually infantry bows are rather limited tactically.  The primary  
>way they were successfuly used in this war was when the French  
>attacked them in a defensive position. 

	Both longbows and crossbows have been used successfully  
against cavalry (ditto for arquebuses). 'Tis true that cavalry can  
avoid 'em, but they do provide a defensive "shadow" in which friendly  
troops can shelter. In general, through history, well-drilled  
infantry specialists have been able to defeat cavalry (Longbowmen,  
Landsknecht, phalanxes, etc.). But such excellent infantry are rare.  
Probably rarer in Glorantha than Earth. I don't think that the  
Malkioni have such troops, except maybe for the Brithini, whose  
Horals have to fight horsemen all the time. 

	To sum up, IMO the only Genertelan soldiery that boasts  
infantry disciplined enough and trained to beat off a good cavalry  
charge are the following: Sun Dome Templars, Lunar Heartland troops,  
Agimori, and Brithini Horals. (I'm probably forgetting someone.)  
There might be some sort of specialized Teshnos troops who can do it,  
but I'm skeptical. In Pamaltela at the end of the Third Age, the  
Jmijie cultists were able to fight the Six-Legged Empire's cavalry to  
a standstill, but who knows if they could do it nowadays? Nowhere  
else in Pamaltela (except Fonrit) is really good cavalry country --  
too wooded. 

Harald asks:
>Do you have info on the Plain of Stones available?
	Harald e-mailed me and pointed out that he of course meant  
the Plateau of Statues. Yes. I have info on this, but no time this  
week to post it. Next week, unless I forget.

>speaking of Androgeus, does anyone know where he/she is located  
>during the period 1615-1625?
	Knowing Androgeus, he is probably lurking somewhere right  
nearby where YOUR player-characters are headed. She'll be able to  
give them a fright, if nothing else. Don't forget the children that  
he mothered. Maybe some of them could be around to excite your PCs. 

Joerg Baumgartner:
>The point in using curved blades for Lunar side weapons is twofold:
>a) the curve of th blade resembles the sickle of the moon, and 

>b) ever since Yanafal cheated curved blades are the safer way for 

>Lunar warriors against sword-breaking spirits of reprisal.
	Even more important: curved blades make dandy weapons, which  
is why the Arabs used 'em (after the fact, there was a semi-religious  
explanation that it resembled the crescent banner, but this was  
_after_ the fact -- also North African Berbers used straight blades). 

	My own belief is that curved blades were used in Peloria  
BEFORE the Lunars ever came along. 

	For some reason, I like the theory that the Carmanians  
somehow came to use curved swords in the years since their exile from  
Fronela (maybe I think this way because of the Persian connection),  
and that the Lunars adopted it from them. 

	I also like the theory that the Pent sun nomads use curved  
swords, and this may be another influence on the Dara Happans. 

Lew Jardine: 

>My idea about the lunars is that they  are the first people in the  
>region to combine infantry and heavy cavalry. 

	I didn't buy this before, and I don't buy it now. I still say  
the reason for the Lunar dominance is their magic system (not the  
_magic_, the _system_), which I've gone into a great length several  
months ago, but nonetheless will attempt to reproduce should any  
masochistic Dailies e-mail me requesting same. 

>> Dara Happans had NO cavalry only chariots (both heavy and light).  

Joerg says:
>For the 1st Age Dara Happans I might agree.
	Don't give in, Joerg! The First Age Dara Happans were  
occupied by the Pent nomads. They had an extremely close-in look at  
horse cavalry, how it worked, and how to do it. They'd been occupied  
for generations. I can't believe they didn't know about cavalry --  
the nobles might have ridden chariots, as the elite vehicle, but I  
bet they had plenty of light cavalry. 


From: drcheng@sales (David Cheng)
Subject: Nyarlathotep whispers in Sandy's Ear...
Date: 16 Jun 94 20:06:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4635

I would like everyone here to know that Sandy Petersen has listened to the
teachings of Nyarlathotep.  I know this as fact.  How?  Well let me tell

To my knowledge, Sandy only has a Bachelors of Science degree.  Yet,
somehow he has seemed to master and practice the science of cloning.

We know Sandy Petersen:
* is a full-time computer game designer
* is the father of a large, young, energetic family
* posts lots of stuff here on the RQ Daily
* plays lots of computer & video games
* reviews those games for "The Eye of the Beholder," his 
  monthly column in _The Dragon_
* does freelance rpg work
* attends several conventions a year, often in distant lands
* runs a RQ campaign
* reads a lot
* . . . and other stuff we probably don't even know about.

Now, this is _obviously_ more work than any one human being could 
conceivably do in one lifetime.

My only rational conclusion is that Nyarlathotep has taught Sandy
Petersen how to make clones of himself.  This horde of proto-Sandys is
busy influencing as many thousands of us innocents as possible.

Don't say I didn't warn you when all those thousands of _Doom_ players
start taking on the ~Innsmouth Look~.

Henk, is there any way we can seal each Daily with some kind of
Electronic Elder Sign?


I have started to lay out the officially-titled _RuneQuest-Con
Compendium_.  This is the last call for submissions.  If you get your
material to me by Friday, July 1st, it will be sure to make it into
the book.  Please remember I am squeezed by the Convulsion deadline -
I have promised to bring a stack of these books over to England.  They
must be back from the printer by July 15th.

I would really like to see more of:

* your stories from the storytelling contest
* your Home of the Bold character write-ups

... as I've received fewer of these than I expected.  Partly my fault
for waiting so long to remind you, I'm sure.

As always, I can receive submissions at:

David Cheng
313 East 85th Street, Apt 2C
New York, NY  10028
(212) 472-7752

I prefer files on 3.5" disk, but email submissions are OK too.

No, I am not yet accpeting orders for these books.  Please wait for
the formal announcement.


* David Cheng
  (212) 472-7752 [before midnight]                       GEnie:  D.CHENG


Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 15 Jun 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <>
Date: 16 Jun 94 22:22:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4636

Devin Cutler here:

Cullen writes:

"I think you're suffering from overexposure to modern rational people.
Do you really think someone who was raised in Ancient Sumeria or as a
medieval peasant really reasoned like you do?"

Yes, in general I do. Do you really believe that someone who was raised in
Ancient Sumeria or as a medieval peasant is really that different from us
today (at least emotionally)?.

Colin Watson writes:

"So long as you 
carry out the correct rituals etc, they will respond accordingly "giving" you
magic. This response to worship is like a reflex. They don't choose who
is "worthy" and who is not."

Sorry, I don't agree with this at all. I refuse to believe that a group of
Cacodemon wqorshippers could take over a shrine of, say, Humakt, torture the
Priest until he showed them the rituals (or simply secretly observed the
rituals before sacking the temple), and then begin to sacrifice for Truesword
at will for the rest of their lives.

Yes, the Compromise exists and restrains the gods, but IMO it doesn't turn
them into mindless idiots who will give their powers to anyone who waves his
hand and dances in the right fashion.

Alex writes:

"  From reading KoS, for example, one would not
immediately conclude the Orlanthi are a people for whom magic necessarily
"works", so much as they are a culture who _believe_ it does.  As did many
Earthly cultures."

I'm afraid you've lost me. Are you saying Orlanthi do not actually work
magic? Are you implying that Orlanthi magic is somewhow a sham? Please

"Resurrection has strict time limits, and must be done _before_ someone
goes to their afterlife (or not).  Hence bringing back someone _after_
this is a totally different matter."

I fail to see the difference. The great dividing line is life vs death. Even
if "Heaven" has not been reached, it is clear that one survives after death,
simply because after Resurrection, one is alive after having spiritually left
his body. The fact that there is some sort of certain existence after death
makes the difference.

"All that we actually
know to be required to get Axe Trance is that one be a Babs Initiate (or a
suitable initiate), and that the local temple go for the idea.  That She's
sitting around in the GP personally vetting each application in detail is
just One Man's Opinion."

Well, se my comment to Colin Watson above.  And, yes, it is just One Man's
Opinion, but what in Glorantha isn't?:)


Devin Cutler


From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Epicycles
Message-ID: <940616233334_100270.337_BHL22-2@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 16 Jun 94 23:33:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4637


Cyclically, I'll agree on the impracticality of both Loskalmi and Lunar 
ideals in practice. You've not misrepresented my views on either of them. 
Guess my loyalty to the Lunar Way matches yours to the Loskalmi Herrenvolk. 
Which is good for dialogue.


Orange cats: from a very fine series of childrens' books about "Orlando the 
Marmalade Cat." Lovely illos. Another fragment of my youth...


One basic HeroQuest is the one that finds out your father was God. Solves 
loadsa problems with heroes' ancestry. Check Campbell for more...


> A thing that bugged me: Are these twins the children of Arim and Sorana 
> called from their hero-cult, or are they a new generation of royal twins 
> from the Exiles?

See last post: they can be both!


Loved the Doraddi Darkness/Lightbringers' myths, *especially* the monsters 
coming out "to be naughty" after dark...



From: (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Impassable Mountains?
Date: 16 Jun 94 23:43:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4638

Once again I want to explore the passes in the Rockwood Mountains 
between Corolaland and Halikiv in Ralios and Aggar and Skanthiland in 
southern Peloria. There are at least two independent historical records 
which indicate that there are more passes from Ralios to the north than 
just Kartolin and High Llama Pass.

Uz Lore tells us on p.29 that the Halikiv trolls "raided the humans of 
the Aggar region so continually that it was nearly abandoned by them" 
early in the Third Age. (On p.31 Bina Bang visits the Aggar trolls, by 
which I assume the ones living in the Autumn Mountains north of the 
City of 10,000 magicians is meant.)

Alakoring Dragonbreaker takes his war against the dragons and 
dragonfriends from Ralios to Aggar and Holay. Since the route through 
Dorastor was firmly shut at the end of the Second Age, he either must 
have used High Llama Pass (an unlikely route to take with an army) or 
he crossed the Rockwoods directly into Aggar.

The High Llama Pass route has to its merit only that it would have 
brought Alakoring into the Carmanian Empire, a realm of fervent 
dragon-killers, where he was found in Castle Blue (after his killing by 
Tobosta Greenbow, which might have saved his spirit so that he 
continued his existence past the Dragonkill War.

How impassable are these these mountains? To whom?

I realize that to transport a whole army with supplies across mountais 
one needs to be a genius like Hannnibal and an existent road system. 
What about a small raiding force? What about messengers, agents, 
refugees, missionaries, artifacts?

--  Joerg Baumgartner