Bell Digest v940623p1

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To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 23 Jun 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest
format.

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


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From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Slontos
Message-ID: <940622080852_100270.337_BHL69-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 22 Jun 94 08:08:52 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4734

________
Big Joke

JB> Where was the Goddess Switch?

SP> I think it was in Slontos. We know that just before Slontos  
SP> was destroyed the mother goddess of the area went chaotic. 

I thought that the over-concentrated Trickster they had living there told 
her a side-splitting joke... Why does Chaos always get the blame?

_____________
Cullen Grace:

> Here's a fun question:  What was the name of the Red Goddess in life,
> before her apotheosis?

Easy! Teelo Norri. 

(Orlanthi call her 'Shepelkirt', so her real name may have sounded similar 
if that old Hebrew punning instinct is strong in them. You know, from Baal 
Zebulon to Beelzebub, etc.)

_____
Paul:

Who wrote/edited/collected/published "Arab Historians of the Crusades"?

====
Nick
====


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From: lindsell@rschp1.anu.edu.au (Graeme Lindsell)
Subject: Me? Talk about Loskalm again? Oh, allright...
Message-ID: <9406220854.AA11467@Sun.COM>
Date: 22 Jun 94 23:52:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4735

Nick Brooke resurrects a very old thread (and we're both opposed to 
easy resurrection, to resurrect another one).

>I thought I'd managed to convince you - or was it Mark S. back then?

 I don't remember that. I believed then that we should accept what
the Genertela says as true (though showing us Greg's attitudes rather
than Loskalm's), and I still believe that now. We can say any part
of the Glorantha book is lies, especially that crap about the Lunar
Empire, which we all know is a chauvinist bunch of northern Orlanth
worshippers (Orlanth, Father of the Red Moon, that is), who are electing 
emperors whenever the last one dies and claiming he's the same bloke. 
Of course, the renegade Malkionist Sartar managed to persuade the 
inhabitants of Dragon Pass otherwise, via his Heroquests, and the
"invasion" is just the northernists reclaiming what was always theirs.

 [Hmmm, nice theory, perhaps I should publish]

The argument ended when I made clear my belief that the Loskalmi are 
dangerous fanatics, and we found some ground we could both agree on.

 Note about the fortifications: it doesn't say that Loskalm has always
been like this. In fact it states that the castles that were a sign of
the oppression are mainly gone now, except in border areas. I would
class the fortifications of Northpoint as remnants of these.

 I think modern Loskalm is a product of the Ban, and of King Siglat's
work. His inhuman intelligence - and the Syndics Ban - allowed this system 
to function. Now both Siglat and the Ban are gone, the system is starting
to fail, and will either collapse or attempt military conquest to convert
the rest of Fronela.

>"Boldhome: this squalid town has only the most rudimentary sewage system,
>and no public baths. No popular elections are held to fill the annual urban
>magistracies, and civilised folk are regularly assaulted in the streets for
>exercising their right to freedom of speech. Signs of terrible barbarism."

 Yeah, where's the problem? That seem about right. Why don't you accept 
that what we've seen in about Boldhome is basically as slanted in it's 
favour as the Fronela chapter is towards Loskalm?

 I agree the Fronela chapter is slanted, but I think it's Greg who did
the slanting. Now, Everything Greg Says Is Wrong, but there has to be
some starting point, doesn't there? If Greg wants to make Loskalm the
Best Place in the World, let him. No doubt why Sandy's plans for it
are such as they are (see Daily last week)

Sandy Petersen states:
>I, too, have chafed under the seeming
>assumption by various other writers that no Woman in the West can
>have any fun.

 Perhaps they got this from the way everything written about the status 
of women in the West which has always said that they are oppressed and 
obliged to remain in the home? Bit odd that, them getting that attitude 
after having been told it's like that, isn't it?

>and Greg said that Earth might have had the
>plague of chauvinism throughout its existence, but by Gum, Gloranthan
>wasn't, and he was perfectly prepared to ensure that women had an
>important place in every nation in Glorantha.
>        No doubt it's possible to draw different conclusions by
>finely sifting the data on one nation or another and interpreting it
>just right, but Greg's goal should be public, I feel.

 How long ago was this discussion ie could he have changed his mind
since then?

 This is the same Greg Stafford who wrote the Dara Happan mythology,
and the Western Soldier stuff in the Genertela Pack? You don't have
to "finely sift" anything to conclude those societies are sexist; the
descriptions basically say they are.

 Greg seems to have cultures whom he doesn't like, and to whom he gives
attitudes he finds reprehensible. The Western attitude to women seems
to be one of them.

>        But they were able to mobilize their resources much more
>effectively than the Germans (so much for Nazi "efficiency").

I recently read Alan Bullock's book "Hitler and Stalin: Parallel Lives":
the Nazi beauracracy seemed monumentally inefficient. I doubt the trains
ever did run on time, and if they did the Nazi's had nothing to do with
it.

>Graeme Lindsell:
>>The KoW could just as easily be categorized as warriors who are
>>extremely skilled at individual combat, but not at war.
>        Of course they could, but let's get serious. Where's the fun
>in that?

 I don't see much fun in positing that Loskalm are a bunch of cream puffs
who will collapse on day one, which appears to be your attitude. I find
the situation more "fun" if it is Loskalm's crusade to conquer the rest
of Fronela. White and black are to me less interesting than shades of grey.

>Perhaps a better comparison for the Loskalm/KoW struggle
>would be Frederick the Great

 To me Loskalm, with it's rigid internal structure and large standing
army, seems closer to Prussia than the KoW does.

>I vote that the KoW turn out to be powerful, well-organized, and
>dangerous, because even if the PCs are NOT opponents of the KoW it
>makes the world a more interesting place for them to live.

 Like I say, people with "bad guy: kill without moral qualm" written
on their shields aren't that interesting to me. (One reason why I'm
getting pretty bored with broos, though they are the best evil species
I've seen in an RPG)

 Acutally, I'd tend to play the war in Fronela as is implied in the
Fronela chapter of G:G Book2 ie a massive assault on Loskalm, with 
Lord Death on a Horse needing to hire hordes of mercenaries but still 
leaving the matter in doubt. I agree with what MOB said on the subject,
that the north of Loskalm will likely be spared most to the carnage,
as the direction of the Warlords attack would be towards the South,
through Junora. If Sog falls, I suspect the Waertegi will try to take
it and their drydocks back later, though.

 The write-up of Harrek also implies that the Kingdom of War is
basically Lord Death on a Horse's effort; that if he died, so would
the KoW. Loskalm on the other hand would seem to be able to replace a 
leader at pretty short notice.
--
Graeme Lindsell a.k.a lindsell@rschp1.anu.edu.au
Research School of Chemistry, Australian National University, Canberra.
"I was 17 miles from Greybridge before I was caught by the school leopard"
Ripping Yarns - Tomkinson's Schooldays.

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From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: New Pelor