Bell Digest v940625p6

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 25 Jun 1994, part 6
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From: eco0kkn@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann)
Subject: Blessed Saint Goofyname
Message-ID: <9406250351.AA27374@cabell.vcu.edu>
Date: 25 Jun 94 03:51:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4822

In Friday 6/24's digest, Sandy Petersen seconded BAron Chugg's
suggestion that the Rokari have a kick-butt female saint with what
are way cool ideas on how she offers outlets for women choosing
unconventional career choices. Great idea.


But can we please find a name for her that is not shared by a bunch
of Duran Duran fans? St. Michelle??? Ugh. Is she really named with a
feminized version of Michael, derived from the Hebrew for " Who is
like the Lord?"?

I just HATE the use of english (or other recognizable) names in
Glorantha. That's why I pronounce it Talar Malaskan Puh-hill-eep-eh.

Mike

Who the hellcrack IS like the Lord, anyway?


-- 
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Gloranthophiles need to contact me at codexzine@aol.com
for information about Codex Magazine.
UK Gloranthophiles write to cphillips@blue.demon.co.uk
"Inquiries into the nature and secrets of Glorantha"   .
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From: lindsell@rschp1.anu.edu.au (Graeme Lindsell)
Subject: There were Giants in the Earth in those Days...
Message-ID: <9406250456.AA24367@Sun.COM>
Date: 25 Jun 94 19:54:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4823

Alex Ferguson answering Martin Crim
>I'm agnostic on this point.  I suspect that much (and maybe all) elf
>Elmal/Yelmalio/whoever worship is picked up on from friendly humans, and
>from there spreads to mildly malcontent elves.  If there is a "native"
>elven winter sun cult, it may not be much like Yelmalio at all.

 I tend to put the matter the other way round, and say that the human
religion is an adaption of an elvish one. Oddly, many of the geases
of Yelmalio seem to be a matter of acting like an Aldryami (eat no meat,
all Trolls and Mostali enemies, wear little armour, don't use any fire
magic). I suspect the gift and geases of the elves to be different,
probably fewer. I agree the elvish cult may be little like the human
one, but the Yelmalio functions in human society (organized soldiery and
god of Last Light), would seem to be useful to the Aldryami as well.

 Barron Chugg writes:
>Either way, the rebirth through disorder is in keeping with the general 
>theme of the Hero Wars period.

 More "Rebirth after near total annihilation when the whole world falls
apart". The only cultures of Genertela I would tip to survive the Hero 
Wars are the Brithini and the Kraloreli, only because they shown such at 
talent at it. While Fronela may not be as devastated as KoS tels us 
Dragon Pass was, I think it unlikely they'll survive.

>Nils Weinander

>I agree fully with all who have suggested that gender roles in Glorantha
>should be less pronounced than in the real world. It is just more
>interesting then. 

 I just object to making _all_ Glorantha fit a certain pattern. To me that
makes it much less interesting. I especially see red when when I see 
anachronistic things injected into cultures in order to make it easier
to be an "adventurer".

>- Gods have no understanding of mundane events on Glorantha, except for
>what their followers tell them. This means :

 How much does this allow cult's to communicate through their gods? Does
it allow them to use a god as a bulletin board ie leave a message with
Orlanth to give to Martris if she attempts Divination about me?

 Nick Brooke asks Paul Reilly:

>Who wrote/edited/collected/published "Arab Historians of the Crusades"?

 And since I didn't see him reply I'll give the ANU library's answer:

Gabrieli, Francesco. Arab historians of the Crusades / selected and 
translated from the Arabic sources, by F.Gabrieli translated from the 
Italian, by E.J.Costello. London : Routledge & K. Paul, 1969

 as I was interested to know as well.

 Barron Chugg suggests:
>Imagine a person's progression in a cult as a heroquest of sorts.  The
>quest itself is to follow the path of their god
>This removes the troubling question of the gods acting
>directly in the world

 But raises the more troubling question as to whether the god has
any kind of independant existance at all, or is just these collection
of hero paths, and is made manifest by people walking them. A question
the God Learners obviously pondered, and came up with answer "Not real,
just exploitable heroquest paths".

Colin Watson replies:
>I propose that fresh paths can be forged and
>Did this not happen with Zistor the Machine and the Red Goddess?
 
 Wasn't the Red Goddess more a case of the Seven Mother's retreading some 
very old hero paths?

 Our received knowledge of Zistor comes through an Orlanthi myth, so
whther he was ever really a "god" is open to doubt.

Barron also writes:
>Sure, there should be cultures that are less
>sexually equal, but both the Dara Happans and the Trowjang (how _is_ that
>spelled) Amazons should be the extremes, not the norm.

 And the western cultures of Seshnela and Loskalm are literally extreme:
they are on the extreme Western coast of Genertela. The rest of Fronela
may be different, and IMO the Malkioni of Safelster hold quite different
attitudes: see the number of female rulers and important personalities 
mentioned in Ralios, and compare them to the number in Loskalm and 
Seshnela (none, as I recall).

Devin Cutler Spirits of Prax: all quite nice, and rather useful given 
the very few spirit cults we've been given. Please take care not to
give shamans to full a range of rune magic, though.

Joerg Baumgartner writes
>Hey, the Malkionist Sartar is copyrighted by me!

 Don't worry, you'll be acknowledged. The main thrust of the argument was
refuting the ridiculous notions of the Red Empire being opposed to the 
Storm Gods, obviously...

Alex Ferguson replies
>To wit, the Compromise.  But why is Time, Time, if there's no difference
>in the causality "before" and "after"?

 There is the general theme of cyclic time in Glorantha. It's possible 
that each cycle sees itself as essentially the same, with the gods being
the inhabitants of the previous cycle (or even earlier). So we have 
Orlanth, who replaced Umath, before whom there was the Celestial Court. 
The Dara Happan's have the same belief: the futher into the past they
look, the more powerful the inhabitants appear.
 
 KoS even shows us the next cycle, where Argrath has replaced Orlanth. 
This seems even more likely if Barron Chugg's proposals are correct, as 
Greg has asserted. There never was any distinction between the gods and 
men in Glorantha, and never any time when they walked the land except 
when they were mortals.

 This Glorantha could be of any age. Sounds good as a Kralorelan belief. 
Glorantha thus becomes even more relativistic, as at any cycle in 
Gloranthan time the world appears the same as at any other cycle.

>These chaps (the various Arkati factions) don't have (notably) different
>views on what the "historical" Arkat did, or was.

 I wouldn't be entirely sure of that...

>and given that (at least) four of them are (going to be) probably lying,

 There was a suggestion that the five incarnations are Arkat Brithini,
Arkat Hrestoli, Arkat Humaktsson, Arkat KingTroll and Arkat the Deceiver
(ie Gbaji). In this case, only one is lying, and he may have been Arkat
all along, anyway.

--
Graeme Lindsell a.k.a lindsell@rschp1.anu.edu.au
Research School of Chemistry, Australian National University, Canberra.
"I was 17 miles from Greybridge before I was caught by the school leopard"
Ripping Yarns - Tomkinson's Schooldays.

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From: vladt@interaccess.com (Kevin Rose)
Subject: Lead Crosses
Message-ID: 
Date: 24 Jun 94 20:10:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4824

Alex: Lead Crosses
Lead crosses are a death artifact (deactivates/destroys undead and 
prevents resurection) that has a 50m radius effect.  (It's been a while 
since I looked at this one, so these are aprox. stats)

Anyway this is a known heroquest path that is not often used by the 
Humakti due to the tendency of the Humakti to go into an anti-death 
preverting frenzy.  And it's real bad PR when a Sword kills 20 or 30 
unarmed Chalana Arroy healers in their temple.  (Resurection is bad, so 
anyone who performs it. . .)  This, again, is aproximate.

Also Humakti using Sorcery:
I've always assumed that Humakt didn't care whether his worshipers used 
sorcery.  But as the cult leaders usually care they will not accept or 
promote an initiate who is a sorcerer in most Orlanti lands.  Caused no 
end of problems for a Carmainian Humakti sword wantabe in Pavis who was 
also an Adept.  Had to be real careful with the sorcery to prevent his 
superiors from finding out. . .

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