Bell Digest v940723p1

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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 23 Jul 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


Subject: names
Message-ID: <>
Date: 22 Jul 94 12:00:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5259

I have some questions about names.

When Solsjenitsin returned to Russia, he first went to one of the areas
where many people have been send in internal exile, the Kolyma [a as in
dark] region of Sibiria. Is it just me or does this sound an awful lot
like a tribal name from Kerofinela?

Is there any relationship between Huemac (a precolumbian American king)
and the Deathdrake? Prabably not.

This last one just can't be coincidence: Hathor, mother of the king,
goddess of mothers, wifes, the sky, and the sun had her great temple
in the city of Dendera (sometimes spelled Denderah).

Some time ago, the origin of Dara Happa was revealed on this Daily.
Is there a list of these names somewhere?

Klaus O K


Subject: Re: #1(2) RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 22 Jul 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <>
Date: 22 Jul 94 08:10:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5260

Devin Cutler here:

Elias asks:

"Which leads me to ask:  Does anyone have or know of any good 
rules for heroquests?  Something that would allow a scenario 
to be constructed and played?  I seem to keep running into 
the problem of characters outgrowing the usual challenges, 
and short of sending ever-increasing numbers of bad guys 
after them, the only alternative seems to be to retire the 
character.  Any suggestions?"

I have a set of HQ rules printed up for my campaign. Very little is my own
original concept, it basically takes the best bits (IMO) from the four major
HQ concepts (Will, Personality Traits, Mega RQ, and Rune FAme) and combines
them into a single system. I did this mainly so that I could run ANY
published HQs, no matter which of the four approaches are used.

If you or anyone want a copy of this, I can send it to you. I claim no credit
for the ideas, and some of the stuff is copied verbatim from things posted on
this net. I merely complied and integrated the four styles. I have playtested
the HQ rules twice, on a very limited level (i.e. basic, low level HQing),
and there were no major problems.


Devin Cutler


From: (Jon Green)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 22 Jul 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <>
Date: 22 Jul 94 11:28:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5261

> ---------------------
> From: (Barron Chugg)
> Subject: It's sorta on gods, but only sorta...
> Message-ID: <199407212303.QAA06793@popserver.Stanford.EDU>
> Date: 21 Jul 94 08:05:59 GMT
> X-RQ-ID: 5256
> Hello All.
Barron Chugg (X-RQ-ID: 5256):

>   Well, with our British collegues away at Convulsion, now is our chance to
> retake the daily!  No more "RQ sells much better over here."  No more
> "Well, I got my TotRM just today."  Jealous?  Me?  Well, maybe a little. 
> At least I'm only 20 minutes from RQ-CON2...:-)
Ha!  We're keeping an eye on you!
> (Quoting Jon Green)
> >J> 1.  Unless an individual invites a God to inspect their intentions
> >J> their "soul" in ritual), the mind of any character is opaque ...
> >
>   Well, does the god really look, or does the worshipper only think the god
> is looking?  I wouldn't think people with guilty consciences would be
> "opening themselces" anyway.  

This was what I meant when it referred to the act as being the ultimate trust
both on one's own faith and in the belevolence of the God.  In essence, it
doesn't really matter if the God does take a peek - the follower knows that
that's a definite possibility, or is convinced that it *will* happen.  I'd
suggest that it does happen sometimes.  An exceptionally fervent (or POWerful)
follower will grab a God's attention from time to time.  Since Gods are IMO 
at least in part determined by the wills of their followers, they MUST look
sometimes.  And once you give permission to look, you also give permission to
fiddle around in there...  (Somewhat like not resisting a Spirit Magic spell,
but on a more major scale.)  You just ain't going to do it, if you know 
yourself to be unworthy.  I can conceive that, in some cults, the occasional
baring of the soul would be a mandatory continuing requirement for Initiation
and higher levels. somewhat like a rather more revealing Confession.

> Or, to go to a bit more mystical level, the opening is
> the surrendering to the runepath of the god.  If you are "in tune" with the
> god, then the path is much easier.  If you are "out of tune" then you are
> in for a bumpy ride.  

That's a perfectly reasonable alternative view.

> Now, worshippers will interpret these experiences
> based on their culture.  If you have the bumpy ride you will probably feel
> "unworthy" or "bad", you may even manage to summon an Impest or two.  If
> you are "filled by the glory of the god" (that is, if you complete the
> RPath easily) you will feel that you are "doing the right thing".  Now, the
> cynical follower will know that the feelng is not related to the will of
> the god and is merely a reflection of the ritual.  He is much less likely
> to suffer any guilt or SoRs.  Reasonable?

I would be more inclined to put it this way:  the action of opening the 
barriers creates its own sensation, coloured by the guilt of the individual.
Whether or not the God looks is unknown to the person, unless the God wishes
specifically to show favour or disfavour.  But most times, you just can't
tell.  Perhaps I just like to keep PCs guessing...

> >                                                                    With
> >RLvls the god is monitering constantly so for the HHD everybody goes up
> >a step in godly monitering?
>   Or, the RLvls are more often on these RPaths and have many more
> opportunities to "check their alignment".  On the HHD, the ritual is much
> more involved and powerful, thus minor flaws can be magnified.
Or the RLs tend to maintain a higher POW sufficient to gain attention more
often?  (Doesn't pay to let PCs get too arrogant in the face of their Deities.
After a while, they'll start to think they *matter...:-)

> >J> Not necessarily; when an ogre worships, the ogre's POW is filtered of
> >J> the worshipper's ogre nature.  But I *love* the idea of _malicious_
> >
> >This has some kind of cleansing effect?  Why?
>   That's easy, the nature of the ogre is to deceive.  They live by fitting
> into the local culture and destroying it from within.  In my view, the ogre
> who worships a "lawful" deity is following the Ogre Path by way of that
> deity.  That's why they don't get screwed by SoR or initiation tests.
I don't look forward to the first Ogre Hero leading mass worship of, say,
Storm Bull by a crowd of fervent Broo not fully aware of who they're 
donating POW amd MP to!  (But I'd like to be a PC...)

> >What I meant was:  Maybe ogres are a chaos plot to do just that.  Maybe
> >the POW of ogres is tainted in such a way that the gods can't detect it,
> >but in such a way that it does change them (weakens them?).
This was what I had in mind.

>   I'd say that the god is not weakened, but rather warped.  Moved more
> towards disorder.  Here's a strange suggestion, maybe the power you send is
> fitted to a rune.  You send Orlanth Wind/Motion/Mastery, Humakt
> Death/Truth.  This reinforces the god's aspect.  (Note: I am using the word
> rune to imply the greater concept they relate to, so put down those
> GL-o-Meters.)  So the ogre sends power that smells like
> Wind/Motion/Mastery, but is in fact, Death/Disorder (and maybe) Chaos. 
> Pretty sneaky, huh?
This was *exactly* what I had in mind.  Remember I was opining (in email 
passim) about the God being shaped in its Path by the will of the followers?
By becoming a follower of a certain God or pantheon, you accept the aspects of
the controlling Runes of the cult.  In worshipping, donating the POW and MP
to keep the fires stoked, those Runic aspects colour the donation, along
with the personality and will of the worshipper.  In this way, the God's
runic associations are maintained and reinforced.

Now, to subvert a God, all you need to do (!) is to gather together a
vast number of worshippers, and channel their sacrifices, using
sympathetic Runic associations but a deviant will.  Or add another
Runic association to the channel, so long as it's not entirely contrary
to existing associations.  That'll happen anyway, if you follow more than one
cult - this is one explanation (said the LM sage) as to how pantheons are both
created and maintained.  We're just talking about doing it on a grand scale.

Being an Ogre and/or an Illuminate would help.  And the worshippers don't need 
to know that their honest devotions are being warped by the priest...

Elias Kadri (X-RQ-ID: 5253):

> Which leads me to ask:  Does anyone have or know of any good 
> rules for heroquests?  Something that would allow a scenario 
> to be constructed and played?  I seem to keep running into 
> the problem of characters outgrowing the usual challenges, 
> and short of sending ever-increasing numbers of bad guys 
> after them, the only alternative seems to be to retire the 
> character.  Any suggestions?
Endorsed!  Please, peeps, where's the material on HeroQuesting?  GREG?



From: (Chris Cooke)
Subject: SoloQuest
Message-ID: <9407221309.AA15194@Sun.COM>
Date: 22 Jul 94 13:11:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5262

I was thinking of trying my hand at writing some Solo RQ3 adventures.  These
would be formatted much like Snow_Kings_Bride(give a choice of 2-4 actions and
send the player to the approiate paragraph by number).  I was wondering, is it
accetable to do this(copyrights,etc) ? How much interest would there be and
what would be the best method of distribution/publishing/etc?

Also, I am looking for suggestions on eficient methods of putting it together.

While I'm at it, can anyone suggest where I might get copies of the other 2
SoloQuest modules? 

                />        Chris Cooke 


Subject: TOTRM
Message-ID: <>
Date: 22 Jul 94 13:12:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5263

David Gadbois, if you're on here please e-mail me, I have some questions
about TOTRM. If he's not, can someone send me his email address
Mark Foster


From: (Like, I wanna be a veterinarian, coz I luv children...)
Subject: Spelling
Message-ID: <>
Date: 22 Jul 94 07:28:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5264

>In English, at least, the spelling was frozen with the invention of
>printing and the dictionary.

It was also influenced by the discovery that one need not read aloud 
to read!  I forget the date (it's been a while since I read this), 
but at some point a monk (who was reading the Bible) discovered that 
he hadn't been speaking aloud while reading.  Apparently, the concept 
hadn't occurred to anyone before, so it didn't matter how you spelled 
anything--you just read it aloud the way it was spelled.

Once folks started reading silently, standard spelling became more 
important, and printing pushed it further.



From: (Carlson, Pam)
Subject: Woman Warriors, Yelorna
Message-ID: <>
Date: 22 Jul 94 17:29:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5265

Paul, I greatly enjoyed your post about female warriors in the Arab crusades 
 - thank you!  And also to the person (Sandy?) who mentioned the women who 
fought secretly in the American Civil War - I'd heard of them before, but 
had no reliable source to quote.

I'd like to add another person to the discussion of historic women in 
untraditional roles: Granauile (sp?) O'Malley.  From what I can gather, she 
was an Irish woman who lived in Connaught in the 1500's.  She inherited some 
ships and cannons  from her father, and used them to extort other vessels. 
 She had several colorful marraiges, engaged in cattle raids, and travelled 
to London to complain to Queen Elizabeth about the excesses of the local 
English governor, Sir Richard Bingham - and got him canned.  Although I 
doubt she ever personally fought, she certainly held a lot of power.  I must 
admit my source here is the record jacket of Shaun Davey's "Granuaile", by 
Tara Records, Dublin.  (BTW, I highly reccomend the album/CD to fans of 
"traditional" music).  But there IS supposedly a biography of her somewhere 
 - does anybody out there have it?


I was amused by the vastly different interpretations of Yelorna and her 
relationship to Yelmic society in yesterday's postings.  You could have it 
all by assuming that cult differs across Genertela:
Yelorna is likely to be very traditional and demure in Dara Happa, and so is 
accepted (and appreciated) as an alternate lifestlyle for the occasional 
 rambunctious daughter.  Maybe they have a function somewhat like the Peace 
Corps - going to "wild" places and teaching/protecting people.  This would 
be acceptable to Yelmic traditionalists because it at least contains an 
element of domesticity.
The Yelorna  currently receives much support from the Yelm cult in DH, as it 
provides an alternative to women from traditional (noble) families, who are 
probably flocking to the more female-tolerant Lunar cults.

I picture Sun County as a real Yelmic backwater,  where there is very little 
pressure from women within the pantheon.  Here, Yelorna might be considered 
a menace to society.  Yelorna in Sun County and Pavis would be more militant 
and aggressive toward men.  They might live in small outcast mercenary 
groups, always looking for converts - "sisters to free".  Yelorna's 
relationship to Yelmalio is intriguing - that relationship is probably the 
only reason Yelornans are allowed in SC.

The Sun Dome temples in Sartar and Tarsh are probably more accepting of 
Yelornans, due to influence from the surrounding Orlanthi culture. 
 Yelornans here might act much like Vingans, but a tad more chaste.

So, Nils, does Teshnos have a Yelornan counterpart?


   /\   /\


From: (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Etyries and Issaries
Message-ID: <>
Date: 22 Jul 94 07:41:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5266

Etyries has a special relationship with Issaries, one NOT had by other Lunar
cults with Lightbringers.  Unlike the other "lightbringer analogue" Lunar
cults, Etyries is not among the Seven Mothers.  She did not betray her ties
to Issaries to enter the Lunar way.  Instead, she is the Daughter of Issaries.

In my own campaign, I run Etyries as a former subcult of Issaries, one that
was found in Peloria and Esrolia.  The Esrolian Etyries has diminished, mostly
because of the fact that it wasn't native there.  (It was an implant by the
Godlearners after they created Issaries from Harst, Garzeen, Etyries, and
dozens of other local gods of "trade" in various forms.)  In Peloria, it was
a native cult and was partially subsumed into Issaries.  However, since
the Godlearners had very little direct influence (can we say none?) in this
area, her association with Issaries was mostly theoretical except in
Esrolia, where she was known as "the merchant queen".  Anyway, with the ascent
of the Lunar Empire, Etyries basically "came along for the ride".  When the
Issaries cults of Dragon Pass, Pavis, etc. were encountered, Lunar theologians
dug up the old documents relating Etyries to Issaries.

She turned out to be his daughter.

The Issaries cult looks upon Etyries as a sort of wayward child, who tries her
best but just doesn't get it quite right.  She wastes effort (double entry
book-keeping).  She plays with "unnatural monies" (certificates of value,
letters of credit).  She associates with Lunars.  But she still values a
good trade and can tell gold from lead.  I do find it interesting to note
that Etyries traders are bound to enter the Wastes if they are given a
Hyena skin (Cults of Prax--Travels of Biturian Varosh).  Thus, I would wager
that she also accepts the burden of restoring Genert.  This probably makes
her more tolerable to her father and his cult.

Remember, Etyries is not among the Seven Mothers, she did not betray Issaries
to gain her divinity.  All the other lightbringer-based Seven Mothers
betrayed their original divine Patrons as part of their quest.  

Etyries is probably a pre-extant deity that the Lunars adopted.


From: (Elias Kadri)
Subject: Dictionary Browsing
Message-ID: <9407221747.AA07477@Sun.COM>
Date: 22 Jul 94 02:42:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5267

 Subject:Dictionary Browsing
Hello, just a quick note:

I was going through the dictionary (Webster's II New 
Riverside University Dictionary, now I can't be accused of 
copying without attribution...) this morning, looking for 
"peltast" (it wasn't in there), and happened across the 
following definition:

   peloria  - n.  [Lat. < Gk. peloros, monstrous < pelor, monster]  
      Unusual regularity in the form of a flower that is normally 

Now, is this just a coincidence, or is it case of another 
Gloranthan name with a hidden past?



From: (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Keeping Glorantha mysterious
Message-ID: <>
Date: 22 Jul 94 07:46:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5268

Well, in my own campaign, we've got a fellow who's known as Turnip Boy.
He claims to have had a divine revelation from Turnip, the divine son
of Yelmalio and Ernalda.  He's apparently utterly loony, but he always
has turnips.  ALWAYS.  They're perfectly ordinary Turnips, but he always
has turnips.


From: (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Heroquests.
Message-ID: <>
Date: 22 Jul 94 07:48:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5269

Y'know, the most valuable information I ever had on the Heroquestion has to
be the Tales of the Reaching Moon Heroquest issue.  It might be a good
idea to have this reprinted and avaailable for sale once in a while.


From: (Barron Chugg)
Subject: The Wonder of it All...
Message-ID: <199407221842.LAA03970@popserver.Stanford.EDU>
Date: 22 Jul 94 03:44:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5270

Hello All.

  First off I'd like to comment to myself (does this mean I'll go blind?). 
Anyway, I realized that my posting on the wonder of Glorantha focused over
much on the rules aspect of the world.  Not wanting to be accused of
deducing things from a rule-based perspective I'd like to offer a few more
concrete, world-based suggestions.

  In some edition of Dragon's Past, Greg writes about the strange
occurances in Snake Pipe Hollow during Sacred Time.  Or the "red chains"
and much of the rest of the Cradle scenario.  How about the write-ups in
CoT and CoP.  Maybe in the West the world is not seen as so mystical, but
that is their loss, they should try living in Dragon Pass for a few


>  As Erich's post demonstrates for the umpteenth time, there's
>more than one way to look at Glorantha; arguing the Exact Specifications of
>Gloranthan divinity makes about as much nonsense as real world religious

  Well put.  I'm very much of the belief that there are as many truthes in
Glorantha as there are Gloranthans.  Only we, as GMs/commentators have the
luxury of discussing truth in an absolute sense.  To people in the world
truth is what you believe, and that belief can influence reality.


>I haven't been able to get hold of KoS yet, 
>but from what I've been reading here, it looks like that work 
>should get much of the blame.

  Yes and no.  In many parts it is a wonderful document of living in
Glorantha.  In others it is a bit "mundane" for my tastes.  I am much
enamored of the Anotated Argrath Saga, myself.  Also there are some good
culture bits and the occasional _really_ off the wall snippit.  My feeling
on KoS is that these Harshaxi need to let down their hair.  Their being far
to clinical.

>I see Glorantha as a place where amazing, incomprehensible 
>things happen.  Great visions appear in the sky because of 
>events far away.  The Juggernaut rolls across the the world, 
>destroying all in its path.  Islands float away into strange, 
>unknown oceans.  The ghosts of long-dead dragonewts wield 
>mystic powers in pursuit of unguessable goals.  I could go on 
>and on and on...

  Good examples, one and all.

>Because we're game players, we tend to make rules for what 
>can and can't happen in our games.  Maybe we need to think of 
>those as approximations only (I don't much care whether 
>they're zeroth or first order).

  I don't think we can figure out what level of apporximation because we
have too little knowlege about what we are trying to simulate.  But yes,
they are at best, an approximation.  One which I feel breaks down at high
power levels.  Other people feel they may break down at low levels as well.

>                                  In other places, under other 
>circumstances, different rules apply.  If we insist that 
>everything that happens has to make sense under the rules, we 
>stand to miss out on a lot.

  Seconded.  What is really needed is for the GM to have an idea of how she
wants her Glorantha to work and then bend to rules to her whim.  I'm a
great believer in "rules are a _very_ limited framework that should be
abused whenever the GM wants".  With the caveat that the GM should abuse
the rules to some worthwhile end (i.e. scene building or for story
integrity).  It all comes down to presentation.  When the rules inhibit the
GM's presentation, they should be superceded.

  It seems that, of late, there is a shift towards a more mundane side of
Glorantha.  I seem to recall some guidelines on writing stories for the
Argrath Book that deemphasis magic (anyone actually have these and care to
comment).  My feeling is that Harn is Glorantha without the magic.  Both
are fully realized worlds, but one is highly mystical, the other low magic.