From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 24 Jul 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
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From: ANDOVER@delphi.com
Subject: Reading silently
Message-ID: <01HF1NC2MMHE8ZFB5T@delphi.com>
Date: 23 Jul 94 08:36:13 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5273
Saint Augustine wrote in wonder about Saint Ambrose, the Bishop of Milan
(373-397) that he read without moving his lips. Ambrose, of course, was
one of the key figures in the development of Christianity: "He guided
Western Christianity toward many of the characteristic ideas and practices
that endured through the Middle Ages. He established asceticism as an accepted
Christian way of life under episcopal control. He asseted the righst of the
church over the state. He extinguished the remains of Arainism in the West,
and ended any hopes of a pagan revival among the Roman aristocracy. Though
not a scholar on a par with Jerome and Augustine, he gave significant impetus
to the application of Christian-Platonic exeggesis to Scripture in the West --
before it was too late. He molded the Western Christian liturgy and hymnody
in the diection of congregagtional life. He was a busy, intolerant, and
interfering man, but there was also a touch of political savvy and, on one
occasion, even genius in his actions." In 390, after the Emperor Theodosius
the Great perpetrated a massacre, "Excommunication until public penance
had been performed was required by Ambrose and accepted by the Emperor. The
first milestone on the road to Canossa had been set up on that day. The
heinous character of Theodosius's crime justified Ambrose's action. A vital
principle of Western society had also been established. A Christian moral
order stood above the ruler or any reason of state. No arbitrary destruction
of human life could pass without challenge by the Church. In the lasr resort
a ruler's misgovernment could bring about his excommunication and deposition."
(W.H.C. Frend, The Rise of Christianity) All this and he could read
silently too!
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From: RobMH@aol.com
Subject: Re: RQ Daily, Sat, 23 Jul 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <9407231517.tn76848@aol.com>
Date: 23 Jul 94 19:17:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5274
Bryan Maloney: I like Turnip Boy, the sort of low-level spillover w/o
serious/combat oriented consequences that I would expect to see more of in a
world of spirits and godlings.
Elias Kadri: Yes, 'peloria' is a neat word; I asked about it a few years ago
and half-remember being told there was a connection. Seems too perfect not
to be intentional, the flowering of the goddess chaotic world happens in
Peloria.
Bryan again: Good comments on Etyries and Issaries. You've put me in mind
of a cultic plot.... Consider a possible Lunar perspective: that Issaries,
thanks to his relationship with Etyries and his addiction to the art of the
deal, could be the weak link in the Lightbringers pantheon. I don't
necessarily Believe it, but the idea could make an interesting thread upon
which to string a dangerous necklace.
Pam Carlson: Good point on using all the versions of Yelorna, the notion of
a Peace Corps analog in Glorantha struck me as particularly amusing.
Scott: The story about the monk learning he could read silently has
something of the feel of apocrophya. It's a good story, but not one I could
take extremely seriously. It may accurately reflect one current of medieval
Europe, but I'm sure a great many literate peoples (and even Europeans) were
reading silently before the monk's illumination. Watcha think?
Jon Green: The mechanics of the Ogre-tainted 'plot' to subvert the Power of
the Gods seem to work out OK. I can see it as a short story or as an example
of Chaos' flailing polymorphous efforts to do some damage to the Compromise.
But it's not the type of approach I'd want to base much of a game or world
view around.
--Rob Heinsoo
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From: RobMH@aol.com
Subject: Re: rq Daily, July 23, Harald
Message-ID: <9407231517.tn76854@aol.com>
Date: 23 Jul 94 19:17:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5275
Harald: You said, "I guess through all of this I'm trying to forge a balance
that makes the world realistic (since large magical availability does alter
the way humans interact with the world) and yet wondrous at the same time."
This is certainly the approach I enjoy most; discussions of magical effects
that turn into mini-maxed technological applications kill the sense of
wonder; local spirits and unpredictable personalities within the fabric of
the world help restore the sense in which the world is an active group of
participants, what you called magical vitality.
I'm not familiar with the Viking supplement, how much of it did you find
useful along these lines? Just a few pages? I guess I understand why this
Magic Vitality booster shot came out in a real world oriented supplement
instead of coming out of Glorantha, but I'd like to see the same spirit
blossom more often in Glorantha.
--Rob Heinsoo
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From: RobMH@aol.com
Subject: A Question You May Have Answered Already
Message-ID: <9407231844.tn81854@aol.com>
Date: 23 Jul 94 22:44:13 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5276
Which God or Goddess do you identify with most? If you were a Gloranthan
avatar of yourself, which cult do you think you would belong to?
For myself, I believe I'd be Issaries Silvertongue. Not because of any
affinity for trade, more for the communication aspects, and because I tend to
acquire items and information and pass them on where they're needed instead
of hanging on to them. I hadn't thought of the Issaries connection until a
friend made the ID. At first I didn't care for it, but it seems true enough.
If your Gloranthan avatar isn't a member of a cult at all, I'd be curious to
hear who they are.
--Rob Heinsoo
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From: russell@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Fang!)
Subject: Ogre Ogre
Message-ID:
Date: 24 Jul 94 17:45:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5277
Rusty here
Why do Ogres eat sapient men?
Why not just eat herd-man or herd-animal, for that matter?
I guess it could be some religious (Cacodemon?) or macho thing for ogres to
hunt dangerous, sapient prey, but would they eat men regularly?
(as suggested by the description of the Pola clan in SotB)
WOOF! [Down Fang!:russell@tartarus.uwa.edu.au]
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From: strauss@hopper.itc.virginia.edu (John Strauss)
Subject: chance and fate
Message-ID: <199407240430.AA42247@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU>
Date: 23 Jul 94 20:30:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5278
O Gloranthan Smart Guys:
I have a pretty good handle on the power runes, for the most
part. Except for one pair, Chance and Fate.
Would someone who feels comfortable with them please talk about
that runepair? What do they mean, both in and out of Time?
Where do they get their form? What uses do Gloranthans put them
to?
John Strauss
strauss@hopper.itc.virginia.edu
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From: bchugg@leland.stanford.edu (Barron Chugg)
Subject: Initiate Progression
Message-ID: <199407240649.XAA03922@popserver.Stanford.EDU>
Date: 23 Jul 94 15:51:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5279
Hello All.
At the suggestion of David Dunham, I've made some notes following up on
my idea about initiates regaining rune magic.
The basic premis I am starting with is that initiation should be more
than just a way station on the way to rune level. In fact, since most
games take place at the 50-90% level, and thus most characters are going to
be initiates, there should be more to initiatehood than cheap training,
spirit magic and, occasionally, one-use rune magic. That said, on to the
meat.
So, most people that reach initiate status (that is, almost anyone in the
cult), stays there. For most the basic benifits (be they cultural, or
material) of initiation are more than sufficient. Perhaps only 5% or less
of the initiated ever go any further in their cult. For these few, the
cult will use their initiation period as a time of testing and training.
First the elders of the cult must ascertain whether the person has "what it
takes" to rise higher. Is the person sufficiently pious? Are they able to
interpret dogma reasonably (in the eyes of the elders)? Do they follow the
spirit of the God? Are they complete fruitcakes? All these things must be
ascertained. In the case of those seeking to become rune lords there are
further questions: Are they promising enough fighters? Do they display
the material aspects of the God? Are they willing to die for the religion?
(And, I'll bet, a whole host of other questions.)
For the people with the ambition to rise in the cult (read, most PCs),
initiation is a serious job. I can't really picture a cult initiationg
someone, then having them go off robbing tombs (read, "adventuring"),
coming back five years later and saying, "Ok, make me a priest...". A bit
flippant (OK, a lot), but this is how it looks in the rules.
Anyway, my idea is to add some internal structure to initiation. There
is already one obvious one: You only get the runemagic (RM) that the
priests say you do. This is a good start, but lets go farther. First off,
as I have mentioned before, I like the idea of initiates getting a point of
their RM back at HHD (High Holy Day). This reflects the fact that they
_have_ been shown the path by their priest, but that they require a lot of
help walking it. (Note: I'll be using my path terminology a lot in this
post. Does this make me a path-ologist? (quickly ducks)) So on the day
when the "spirit of the God" is most present, they are able to regain a
minor spell.
Now, a favored initiate (probably called a "candidate") is first going to
be allowed more RM. Further, they will begin to assist the priests at the
holy days (starting off as "alter-boys" and moving up). This will require
that they spend more time training in the ceremonies/lore of the cult and
that they arrive earlier and stay later for holy days (say a few days on
either side). At the highest level they are probably assisting a priest in
weekly rituals for a season at a time. At some point (probably when their
Ceremony skill is high enough) the itiatiate can begin to regain a point of
RM at Seasonal Holy Days (SHDs). The price of this is that they are
probably now donating 20% of their time to the cult (or maybe 25%,
whatever). If they don't arrive early enough for a SHD, they will be
demoted back to alter-boy and will lose the benifit of regaining magic.
The next part of the candidate's life is the testing. Afterall, the
priests must be certain that the initiate displays the proper virtues
required by the cult. So a Storm Bull cultist might be told to go fight
some totally overwhelming chaos foe ("You there, Valrin Wide-Shoulders. Go
kill the Chaos Gaggle that is wandering the Bleak Hills."). All that is
required is for the initiate to salute and start off to fulfill the task
(probably to find a bunch of priests with a keg waiting for him in this
case). (I remember someone posting a SB initiation ritual like this that
was _very_ appropriate.) Orlanthi initiates might be put in "must fail"
situations to see if they then try to right their wrongs. A Humakti would
be forced to face their own death to prove that they do not fear it. All
in all, it's probably a total crock for the initiate, almost like a ritual
hazing. Mean? Probably, but think of it from the priest's perspective.
Here's this person who may someday face the _real_ dangers of the
priesthood (remember, all HQs are opposed), they have to be ready.
All this time, the candidate is doing various adventury tasks for the
heirarchy as well. But, as they advance, their benifits increase. Aside
from more quickly regaining RM, they should get more frequent skill checks
in Ceremony and related skills of the cult. They should gain some free
training in cult lore and maybe some other "bureacratic" skills. They also
gain access to more people and resources (the "old boy network" as it
were).
All this should make the initiate state much more interesting. Further,
the GM should come up with some details of the ceremonies that the PC is
involved with and what role they play (with an emphasis on the fact that
more interesting/central roles will become available if they are devout).
The GM may also wont to come up with some "inner cult lore" that is not
known to the general initiate and can be learned by the candidate (like the
locations of holy sites, or the basics of HQing).
So, over all, the progression is from "casual" worshipper all the way to
assistant to the priest. As the candidate moves upward more and more of
their time is required (like whole seasons near the end). This should be
offered to the PC as a good thing, making their confirmation as a RLvl more
certain and gaining them valuable knowlege and contacts.
Well, this is a pretty rough outline with almost no rules tacked on, but
I think it will add some flavor. The next step is to make the progress
different between different cults, and, finally, to make it different
between the same cult in different regions. (Peter Michaels posted a great
bit for this (Hearts of Humakti) that should give any GM a useful format
for regional variation and progression ("Ah, it is time for you to
sacrifice your Heart of Charity...").) On that...good luck, this is more
than enough for me for now...
Barron
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From: Urox@aol.com
Subject: Soloquest
Message-ID: <9407240256.tn92828@aol.com>
Date: 24 Jul 94 06:56:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5280