From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 25 Jul 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
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From: vladt@interaccess.com (Kevin Rose)
Subject: Initiation & Rune level
Message-ID:
Date: 23 Jul 94 21:48:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5281
Barron: Initiates
A point people seem to miss about initation in Glorantha is that
it is more than what happens on earth. The reason that the second age
Orlanth hero (name escapes me, "xxx the plowman"?) had to perform the
Lightbringers quest was that every Orlanthi trying to become an initiate
had been killed by the one of the opposing spirits during the initiation
ritual for some twenty years. Normally, it's not really dangerous if you
meet the qualifications. If you are playing games however. . .
Greg's "What it takes to convince the examiners" article pointed
out that one thing that it takes is for the priests/lords to not blackball
you. They have known you and your family for years, fought with you, and
noticed how well you attended services and contributed to the cult.
Normally, meeting the skill requirements is just the minimum necessary.
Mostly, it is a social decision. Do they feel that they can trust you?
Will you embarass them, or betray the clan/unit/temple due to some hidden
weakness?
Kevin Rose
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From: Michelle_Ringo@ed.gov (Michelle Ringo)
Subject: Evolving the Path from Initiation to Rune Level
Message-ID: <9406247750.AA775076645@ed.gov>
Date: 24 Jul 94 17:04:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5282
Chugg - Initiation Progress to Rune Level
I like this idea generally. A few comments. Arriving ahead
of time for a worship service in terms of days seems odd to
me. Perhaps its my Lutheran background where one who is
participating as an altar "boy", acolyte, lay minister, etc.
arrives perhaps 1 hour early. I do find that within the
game when taking a character from initiate to the final
steps of Rune level there is a last minute push to get
Ceremony (or some other skill) up which often takes a season
or two. Your description would certainly support and
enhance this activity for PCS in game terms within this
interpretation. Also, I prefer that a PCs
direction/adventuring comes at the behest of the cult. I,
also, dislike the "Ok your an initiate -- see ya in a few
years and we'll talk about making you a rune priest/rune
lord." (P.S. Path-ologist puns -- groan).
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From: strauss@hopper.itc.virginia.edu (John Strauss)
Subject: avatar
Message-ID: <199407241611.AA15449@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU>
Date: 24 Jul 94 08:11:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5283
> Which God or Goddess do you identify with most? If you were a Gloranthan
> avatar of yourself, which cult do you think you would belong to?
>
Yeah, I would probably be an Issaries in some communication
guise. Or a Lankhor Mhy with heretically weak stasis.
I admire Orlanthi, but I'm not that type.
>
> Rusty here
> Why do Ogres eat sapient men?
> Why not just eat herd-man or herd-animal, for that matter?
> I guess it could be some religious (Cacodemon?) or macho thing for ogres to
> hunt dangerous, sapient prey, but would they eat men regularly?
> (as suggested by the description of the Pola clan in SotB)
>
Well, I am not happy with CacoDemon as written and I am
probably going to do a local rewrite of it. I feel that a major
facet of Chaos is the "bandit transaction" where the chaos
cultist gains a relatively small or temporary benefit in
exchange for a victim's profound suffering.
Thanatar gaining some knowledge for a short while in exchange
for a victim's eternity of insanity and imprisonment. Vivamorti
gaining a few power points and some longevity in exchange for
eating your soul. Like that.
I am thinking of redoing CacoDemon to include the idea that an
ogre gains his strength and other heightened physical
attributes from eating members of his own race. Again, death,
per se, is merely a transition for Gloranthans. The Ogre eats
_YOU_, not merely your body.
Of course, once we have a concept like that in place, how about
non-human Cacodemon cultists? An elf ogre would consume elves,
etc.
John Strauss
strauss@hopper.itc.virginia.edu
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From: bchugg@leland.stanford.edu (Barron Chugg)
Subject: Evil Master Plan Foiled!
Message-ID: <199407250028.RAA02815@popserver.Stanford.EDU>
Date: 24 Jul 94 09:30:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5284
Hello All.
___________________
Joe:
>Barron Chugg (X-RQ-ID: 5256):
>
>> Well, with our British collegues away at Convulsion, now is our chance to
>> retake the daily! No more "RQ sells much better over here." No more
>> "Well, I got my TotRM just today." Jealous? Me? Well, maybe a little.
>> At least I'm only 20 minutes from RQ-CON2...:-)
>>
>Ha! We're keeping an eye on you!
Drat! Fiendishly clever to post from a .com site rather and a .uk. Oh
well, now I'll need to come up with a new Devilishly Clever Master Plan
(tm).
> Since Gods are IMO
>at least in part determined by the wills of their followers, they MUST look
>sometimes.
I think that the influencing of the Gods by the worshippers is a more
unconscious thing. I don't think the God is consciously looking to
determine the interests/feelings of his worshippers. More like the God
just absorbs the feelings in general. Now, a very powerful person (read,
hero-wannabe) may be able to pass feelings directly, but the average
initiate (or even rune level) is only going to communicate general
impressions.
> And once you give permission to look, you also give permission to
>fiddle around in there...
I think that the mere following of the God's RunePaths is enough to make
internal changes. Now, many cults probably assume these changes are direct
effects of the God's will...to each their own.
> I can conceive that, in some cults, the occasional
>baring of the soul would be a mandatory continuing requirement for Initiation
>and higher levels. somewhat like a rather more revealing Confession.
But how do the priests _know_ you have barred your soul? I think the
easiest way to test would be to come up with a ritual in which the barring
of the soul is essential to success (or at least some similar level of
openness). This is definatly something you _only_ wanna try inside a
temple. ("Look", say the passion spirits, "Jogarth Orlanthi is opening his
soul...DOGPILE!!!") I'd think the first time that "opening" would be
required is in the testing for rune level. But I also think that there is
probably no _certain_ way to test the motives/morals of a candidate.
>I would be more inclined to put it this way: the action of opening the
>barriers creates its own sensation, coloured by the guilt of the individual.
Since the action is taken in a sanctified temple during a sacred ritual,
I'll go along with that. No doubt the air is thick with the energy and
spirits of the cult, open yourself and you _will_ feel the power. I'd also
offer that it may not be trivial to open oneself, in fact the skill may be
on of the things that initiates are trained in on their way to rune level.
>Whether or not the God looks is unknown to the person, unless the God wishes
>specifically to show favour or disfavour. But most times, you just can't
>tell. Perhaps I just like to keep PCs guessing...
I'm all in favor of keeping PCs uncertain. I just think of Gods in less
personal terms than these. But that's just me.
>Or the RLs tend to maintain a higher POW sufficient to gain attention more
>often?
I don't think an initiate with a 21 POW is going to have much luck in
that area, though. I think the ability of the RLs to renew more easily
comes from a greater knowlege of cult ritual and a more intimate
relationship with the deity.
>By becoming a follower of a certain God or pantheon, you accept the aspects of
>the controlling Runes of the cult.
The whole thing about gaining runes seems to figure in various HQ write
ups I have seen/heard of. I guess all the negative press that runes have
received lately have made me a bit leary of embracing them to fervently,
but they make a good starting model.
>Being an Ogre and/or an Illuminate would help. And the worshippers don't need
>to know that their honest devotions are being warped by the priest...
I'd guess that the rituals themselves would be a bit different. Not
blatant, but stressing differnt aspects of the god. A priest from another
region might figure it out, but the average initiate would chalk it up to
"regional variations".
______________________
Bryan:
Thanks for clearing up things re:Etyries. I keep thinking of her as one
of the 7Ms and I really must break that habit. I like the idea of her as a
Pelorian sub-cult elevated by the Lunars (but with only minimal LB
connections).
>Well, in my own campaign, we've got a fellow who's known as Turnip Boy.
>He claims to have had a divine revelation from Turnip, the divine son
>of Yelmalio and Ernalda. He's apparently utterly loony, but he always
>has turnips. ALWAYS. They're perfectly ordinary Turnips, but he always
>has turnips.
Cool. Yeah, Turnips are cool.
Great example of everyday magic. Or, magic realism if you want. My
favorite part of reading Gloranthan products are the weird asides like
that.
>Y'know, the most valuable information I ever had on the Heroquestion has to
>be the Tales of the Reaching Moon Heroquest issue. It might be a good
>idea to have this reprinted and avaailable for sale once in a while.
Yes, yes, yes!!!
_____________________
Rob:
>Which God or Goddess do you identify with most? If you were a Gloranthan
>avatar of yourself, which cult do you think you would belong to?
Gee, who is the Gloranthan god of cowards? That's the one for me. But,
if you want a less flippant answer, I like Storm Bull. Violent elements
just barely harnessed for a needed purpose. By turns dark and brooding,
then wild and violent. Of course, more realisticly, I'd end up as an
illuminated LM. Life is so rarely fair...
The Bull is mightier than the pen, but the pen is so much lighter...
Barron
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From: mcarthur@fit.qut.edu.au (Robert McArthur)
Subject: Re: Initiate Progression
Message-ID: <199407250308.NAA28584@ocean.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 25 Jul 94 23:08:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5285
The Barron quills:
> The basic premis I am starting with is that initiation should be more
> than just a way station on the way to rune level. In fact, since most
> games take place at the 50-90% level, and thus most characters are going to
> be initiates, there should be more to initiatehood than cheap training,
> spirit magic and, occasionally, one-use rune magic. That said, on to the
> meat.
The only difficulty I can find with this is its removal of scope for those
future heroquesters. Most characters *don't* want to become high priest!!
That would be the end of the road for their characters as far as most (but
not all) campaigns are concerned. I believe that the run-of-the-mill
characters are more interested in moving _past_ high-cult-official and on to
heros (and die trying - sometimes many times :-) So saying, I think it is
important to allow potential heroes the ability to bypass all this cult-related
sitting-in-the-temple stuff, and get them out there. Sure, most of them that
attempt *this* road aren't going to make it - some dying, some deciding that
perhaps a quieter life is more appropriate etc.
I'm not saying that a good roleplay of some pretty "mundane" holy days is not
useful or fun; but not the 20-25% of the time! Did Harreck ever sit as an
"alter boy"?
It seems the difference is like Argrath - he gives a *lot* of himself to
the cults and, especially, to the land of Sartar. Harreck dosen't give much
(except blood and sweat). Some characters will want to go one way and some the
other. I feel it is up to the GM to show to the players the good and less-good
sides of _both_.
So, while some more rules about orthodox cult progression paths are needed,
remember (IMHO) that there can always be some who will do it by a different
way. Instead of holding up the left elbow of the 8th assistant priest to the
chief-sub priest, let the heroes investigate who put the red wine in the
alter cup instead of the "blood of humackt" two hours before the ceremony
(while the chief priest was praying to it! :-)
Robert McArthur
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From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: names; magic mundanity; Vinga Joins Orlanth's Household
Message-ID: <199407250507.AA07860@radiomail.net>
Date: 25 Jul 94 05:07:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5286
Klaus asked
>When Solsjenitsin returned to Russia, he first went to one of the areas
>where many people have been send in internal exile, the Kolyma [a as in
>dark] region of Sibiria. Is it just me or does this sound an awful lot
>like a tribal name from Kerofinela?
Which even has the Black Spear as a special weapon, if Kolyma really does
mean dark (I couldn't find it in my Russian dictionary). And surely the
Sambari tribe is stolen from the Ambarri, a Celtic tribe from what's now
Switzerland.
>Some time ago, the origin of Dara Happa was revealed on this Daily.
I've always found the Harappans (an Indus civilization) to be similar in name.
Elias pointed out
> peloria - n. [Lat. < Gk. peloros, monstrous < pelor, monster]
Unfortunately, it's not in my dictionary, but you'll find that a pavis is a
type of shield.
Barron wondered
>I seem to recall some guidelines on writing stories for the
>Argrath Book that deemphasis magic (anyone actually have these and care to
>comment)
In the guidelines, magic (especially healing and resurrection) is supposed
to be much rarer than you'd expect in a RuneQuest game. If you get wounded,
it's supposed to hurt. I don't really see this as contradictory; RQ merely
exaggerates for dramatic effect. It's clear that it does this with fumbles
(surely they don't happen that often in real life -- I have hit myself
while fencing, so I know it's possible, but it also happened only once in
many bouts). So magic is also exaggerated for convenience of play.
And now, a tale told in East Ralios.
How Vinga Joined Orlanth's Household
by David Dunham
As he returned home after slaying the dragon Aroka, Orlanth the
Storm King saw the nymph Felaria, and was taken with her beauty. He
approached her, and she offered him cheese and cool beer. He gave her a
ring set with a blue-green drop of Aroka's blood. They sat and talked of
the different places they had visited, how Orlanth had killed the dragon,
and many other things. Before long, it was evening, and Felaria invited him
to stay the night.
The next morning, Orlanth continued on his journey. In due time,
Felaria gave birth to a baby girl she named Vinga. Felaria's Power was
Motion, so she wandered from place to place. Everywhere they went, Vinga
learned from a different teacher, and she grew up skilled in all the arts,
friendly with all people, and tall, strong, and beautiful.
When Vinga became a woman, she decided to join her father's
household. Her mother cried and told her not to go, but Vinga cut her hair
and washed it with lime like a warrior. Felaria saw that Vinga's mind was
made up, so she set the blue-green stone in the hilt of a sword and gave it
to her. She gave her a bright-painted chariot so light it could leap over
fallen trees, and two fleet, sturdy horses. And she painted her daughter
with powerful designs to protect her from magic and arrows.
Vinga set out for Orlanth's hillfort. That was the one place her
mother had never taken her, so she didn't know that Bansh Bonebiter lived
along the path. Bansh heard Vinga's chariot, and rushed out to meet her.
She greeted him politely, but he invited her to dinner. "Your limbs will be
fine broiling over my fire."
"That is not to be," said Vinga, and she slung a stone at him. It
bounced off Bansh's bronze breastplate, so she aimed the next one at his
head, but he held up his arm and it bounced off his greaves. Then Bansh
took a bow he'd made from the leg bones of his victims, and an arrow tipped
with a tooth, and shot at Vinga. She dodged out of the way. She dodged the
next arrow, but then Bansh shot two at once. One hit her, but it struck her
mother's runes, and did no harm. She rushed forward, drew her sword and
with the same motion cut off Bansh's arm. As he lay on the ground, he said,
"I have never seen that blow before."
Vinga answered, "In truth, I learned it from no master. My mother
and I had to move on before I could learn everything from my teacher, so I
taught myself that stroke." Then she cut off his head. Since her sling
stones had bounced off Bansh's armor, Vinga decided to take it, but she had
to pound it with rocks so that it fit her.
Vinga continued until she reached the hillfort. "I wish to join the
Storm King's household," she told Orlanth's porter, and he brought her into
the hall. Everyone crowded in to see the visitor.
"My lord, I wish to join your household and serve faithfully among
your companions."
"Many wish to join, but only those who are qualified may do so.
What talent can you add to my household?"
Vinga said, "I have slain monsters." She took out Bansh's head.
"That is Bansh Bonebiter," said Lhankor Mhy, Orlanth's Knowing Companion.
"He has killed and eaten many who travelled along the Low Path." Everyone
praised Vinga's valor and skill.
Humakt said nothing, but smiled grimly and took out a giant head
with four eyes. Lhankor Mhy said, "That is Kankstank Neversleep, who rests
only half his eyes at once. He killed many people and rent their souls so
we no longer know who they were. Bansh Bonebiter swore loyalty to him." The
praise for Humakt was even louder. Orlanth said, "Humakt is my weapon."
"I can drive a chariot," said Vinga. Orlanth had a chariot prepared
for his driver, Mastakos, and fixed a course. At Orlanth's signal, they
both set out. Both jumped the log at the same time, and they sailed across
the stream together. But Mastakos took the turn tighter, and was still
ahead at the finish.
Vinga said, "I can speak many languages." Orlanth's Speaking
Companion Issaries spoke to her in the language of each land she had
visited in her youth. Vinga answered each time, until Issaries spoke a
language she had never heard before. "That is the tongue of the Mostali,
who hide underground and teach it to no one," explained Issaries.
Vinga showed Orlanth the armor she was wearing. "I can work metal."
Orlanth showed her his great coat of mail, called Turnspear, made of iron
links each inlaid with silver. "Gustbran is my smith."
"I can dance," said Vinga. Orlanth called for his musicians, and
Drogarsi stepped forward to dance against Vinga. They danced the Sword
Dance, the Papou, and the Thrush Walk. Finally Drogarsi called to the
musicians to play their most difficult and fastest tunes. Vinga missed one
step, and as the musicians sat gasping for breath, the judges pronounced
Drogarsi the winner.
"I will be your loyal guard." Orlanth pointed to the wall of the
hillfort, where one man remained while everyone else had gathered to watch
Vinga's contests. "That is Elmal, my loyal thane. He guards the fort in bad
times and in good." Several warriors slunk shamefaced back to the wall.
Vinga asked, "Have you any one companion who slays monsters, drives
chariots, speaks the tongues of distant lands, mends armor, dances, and
will be your faithful and loyal guard?"
"In truth, I have not. You have proved yourself worthy to join my
companions." Orlanth placed a gold torc around Vinga's neck. "You have
shown yourself well, because every man you contested with is the best in
all the world in that skill."
"Vinga has many talents. Perhaps there is one other thing she can
do," said Orlanth's fool Eurmal. "She can warm her master's bed at night."
Orlanth's wife Ralia gave Eurmal a cold stare.
"That is one thing I cannot do, for Orlanth is my father," and she
showed the hilt of her sword.
Orlanth leaped from his chair and embraced her. "Why didn't you
tell me you were my daughter? I would have given you a place of honor."
"Would it have been the same place I hold now?"
Orlanth laughed. "Probably not. But now you hold both places."
---------------------
From: appel@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon Appel)
Subject: WARNING ON SODA DOWNTIME
Message-ID: <199407250440.VAA09333@erzo.berkeley.edu>
Date: 24 Jul 94 14:40:13 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5287
I just wanted to warn you all that soda.berkeley.edu, the
RuneQuest ftp site, is going to be down from approximately
Monday afternoon to Friday of these week. soda is moving to
Soda Hall, the new Computer Science building at Berkeley, and
as a result it will be offline for a bit. As soon as soda is
brought back online at the end of the week, everything should
be back to normal for the ftp site.
[and Henk, you might want to temporarily disable the automatic
uploading of digests from Monday through Thursday evenings]
Shannon
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