From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 25 Jul 1994, part 1 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. --------------------- From: vladt@interaccess.com (Kevin Rose) Subject: Initiation & Rune level Message-ID:Date: 23 Jul 94 21:48:50 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5281 Barron: Initiates A point people seem to miss about initation in Glorantha is that it is more than what happens on earth. The reason that the second age Orlanth hero (name escapes me, "xxx the plowman"?) had to perform the Lightbringers quest was that every Orlanthi trying to become an initiate had been killed by the one of the opposing spirits during the initiation ritual for some twenty years. Normally, it's not really dangerous if you meet the qualifications. If you are playing games however. . . Greg's "What it takes to convince the examiners" article pointed out that one thing that it takes is for the priests/lords to not blackball you. They have known you and your family for years, fought with you, and noticed how well you attended services and contributed to the cult. Normally, meeting the skill requirements is just the minimum necessary. Mostly, it is a social decision. Do they feel that they can trust you? Will you embarass them, or betray the clan/unit/temple due to some hidden weakness? Kevin Rose --------------------- From: Michelle_Ringo@ed.gov (Michelle Ringo) Subject: Evolving the Path from Initiation to Rune Level Message-ID: <9406247750.AA775076645@ed.gov> Date: 24 Jul 94 17:04:05 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5282 Chugg - Initiation Progress to Rune Level I like this idea generally. A few comments. Arriving ahead of time for a worship service in terms of days seems odd to me. Perhaps its my Lutheran background where one who is participating as an altar "boy", acolyte, lay minister, etc. arrives perhaps 1 hour early. I do find that within the game when taking a character from initiate to the final steps of Rune level there is a last minute push to get Ceremony (or some other skill) up which often takes a season or two. Your description would certainly support and enhance this activity for PCS in game terms within this interpretation. Also, I prefer that a PCs direction/adventuring comes at the behest of the cult. I, also, dislike the "Ok your an initiate -- see ya in a few years and we'll talk about making you a rune priest/rune lord." (P.S. Path-ologist puns -- groan). --------------------- From: strauss@hopper.itc.virginia.edu (John Strauss) Subject: avatar Message-ID: <199407241611.AA15449@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> Date: 24 Jul 94 08:11:45 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5283 > Which God or Goddess do you identify with most? If you were a Gloranthan > avatar of yourself, which cult do you think you would belong to? > Yeah, I would probably be an Issaries in some communication guise. Or a Lankhor Mhy with heretically weak stasis. I admire Orlanthi, but I'm not that type. > > Rusty here > Why do Ogres eat sapient men? > Why not just eat herd-man or herd-animal, for that matter? > I guess it could be some religious (Cacodemon?) or macho thing for ogres to > hunt dangerous, sapient prey, but would they eat men regularly? > (as suggested by the description of the Pola clan in SotB) > Well, I am not happy with CacoDemon as written and I am probably going to do a local rewrite of it. I feel that a major facet of Chaos is the "bandit transaction" where the chaos cultist gains a relatively small or temporary benefit in exchange for a victim's profound suffering. Thanatar gaining some knowledge for a short while in exchange for a victim's eternity of insanity and imprisonment. Vivamorti gaining a few power points and some longevity in exchange for eating your soul. Like that. I am thinking of redoing CacoDemon to include the idea that an ogre gains his strength and other heightened physical attributes from eating members of his own race. Again, death, per se, is merely a transition for Gloranthans. The Ogre eats _YOU_, not merely your body. Of course, once we have a concept like that in place, how about non-human Cacodemon cultists? An elf ogre would consume elves, etc. John Strauss strauss@hopper.itc.virginia.edu --------------------- From: bchugg@leland.stanford.edu (Barron Chugg) Subject: Evil Master Plan Foiled! Message-ID: <199407250028.RAA02815@popserver.Stanford.EDU> Date: 24 Jul 94 09:30:57 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5284 Hello All. ___________________ Joe: >Barron Chugg (X-RQ-ID: 5256): > >> Well, with our British collegues away at Convulsion, now is our chance to >> retake the daily! No more "RQ sells much better over here." No more >> "Well, I got my TotRM just today." Jealous? Me? Well, maybe a little. >> At least I'm only 20 minutes from RQ-CON2...:-) >> >Ha! We're keeping an eye on you! Drat! Fiendishly clever to post from a .com site rather and a .uk. Oh well, now I'll need to come up with a new Devilishly Clever Master Plan (tm). > Since Gods are IMO >at least in part determined by the wills of their followers, they MUST look >sometimes. I think that the influencing of the Gods by the worshippers is a more unconscious thing. I don't think the God is consciously looking to determine the interests/feelings of his worshippers. More like the God just absorbs the feelings in general. Now, a very powerful person (read, hero-wannabe) may be able to pass feelings directly, but the average initiate (or even rune level) is only going to communicate general impressions. > And once you give permission to look, you also give permission to >fiddle around in there... I think that the mere following of the God's RunePaths is enough to make internal changes. Now, many cults probably assume these changes are direct effects of the God's will...to each their own. > I can conceive that, in some cults, the occasional >baring of the soul would be a mandatory continuing requirement for Initiation >and higher levels. somewhat like a rather more revealing Confession. But how do the priests _know_ you have barred your soul? I think the easiest way to test would be to come up with a ritual in which the barring of the soul is essential to success (or at least some similar level of openness). This is definatly something you _only_ wanna try inside a temple. ("Look", say the passion spirits, "Jogarth Orlanthi is opening his soul...DOGPILE!!!") I'd think the first time that "opening" would be required is in the testing for rune level. But I also think that there is probably no _certain_ way to test the motives/morals of a candidate. >I would be more inclined to put it this way: the action of opening the >barriers creates its own sensation, coloured by the guilt of the individual. Since the action is taken in a sanctified temple during a sacred ritual, I'll go along with that. No doubt the air is thick with the energy and spirits of the cult, open yourself and you _will_ feel the power. I'd also offer that it may not be trivial to open oneself, in fact the skill may be on of the things that initiates are trained in on their way to rune level. >Whether or not the God looks is unknown to the person, unless the God wishes >specifically to show favour or disfavour. But most times, you just can't >tell. Perhaps I just like to keep PCs guessing... I'm all in favor of keeping PCs uncertain. I just think of Gods in less personal terms than these. But that's just me. >Or the RLs tend to maintain a higher POW sufficient to gain attention more >often? I don't think an initiate with a 21 POW is going to have much luck in that area, though. I think the ability of the RLs to renew more easily comes from a greater knowlege of cult ritual and a more intimate relationship with the deity. >By becoming a follower of a certain God or pantheon, you accept the aspects of >the controlling Runes of the cult. The whole thing about gaining runes seems to figure in various HQ write ups I have seen/heard of. I guess all the negative press that runes have received lately have made me a bit leary of embracing them to fervently, but they make a good starting model. >Being an Ogre and/or an Illuminate would help. And the worshippers don't need >to know that their honest devotions are being warped by the priest... I'd guess that the rituals themselves would be a bit different. Not blatant, but stressing differnt aspects of the god. A priest from another region might figure it out, but the average initiate would chalk it up to "regional variations". ______________________ Bryan: Thanks for clearing up things re:Etyries. I keep thinking of her as one of the 7Ms and I really must break that habit. I like the idea of her as a Pelorian sub-cult elevated by the Lunars (but with only minimal LB connections). >Well, in my own campaign, we've got a fellow who's known as Turnip Boy. >He claims to have had a divine revelation from Turnip, the divine son >of Yelmalio and Ernalda. He's apparently utterly loony, but he always >has turnips. ALWAYS. They're perfectly ordinary Turnips, but he always >has turnips. Cool. Yeah, Turnips are cool. Great example of everyday magic. Or, magic realism if you want. My favorite part of reading Gloranthan products are the weird asides like that. >Y'know, the most valuable information I ever had on the Heroquestion has to >be the Tales of the Reaching Moon Heroquest issue. It might be a good >idea to have this reprinted and avaailable for sale once in a while. Yes, yes, yes!!! _____________________ Rob: >Which God or Goddess do you identify with most? If you were a Gloranthan >avatar of yourself, which cult do you think you would belong to? Gee, who is the Gloranthan god of cowards? That's the one for me. But, if you want a less flippant answer, I like Storm Bull. Violent elements just barely harnessed for a needed purpose. By turns dark and brooding, then wild and violent. Of course, more realisticly, I'd end up as an illuminated LM. Life is so rarely fair... The Bull is mightier than the pen, but the pen is so much lighter... Barron --------------------- From: mcarthur@fit.qut.edu.au (Robert McArthur) Subject: Re: Initiate Progression Message-ID: <199407250308.NAA28584@ocean.fit.qut.edu.au> Date: 25 Jul 94 23:08:48 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5285 The Barron quills: > The basic premis I am starting with is that initiation should be more > than just a way station on the way to rune level. In fact, since most > games take place at the 50-90% level, and thus most characters are going to > be initiates, there should be more to initiatehood than cheap training, > spirit magic and, occasionally, one-use rune magic. That said, on to the > meat. The only difficulty I can find with this is its removal of scope for those future heroquesters. Most characters *don't* want to become high priest!! That would be the end of the road for their characters as far as most (but not all) campaigns are concerned. I believe that the run-of-the-mill characters are more interested in moving _past_ high-cult-official and on to heros (and die trying - sometimes many times :-) So saying, I think it is important to allow potential heroes the ability to bypass all this cult-related sitting-in-the-temple stuff, and get them out there. Sure, most of them that attempt *this* road aren't going to make it - some dying, some deciding that perhaps a quieter life is more appropriate etc. I'm not saying that a good roleplay of some pretty "mundane" holy days is not useful or fun; but not the 20-25% of the time! Did Harreck ever sit as an "alter boy"? It seems the difference is like Argrath - he gives a *lot* of himself to the cults and, especially, to the land of Sartar. Harreck dosen't give much (except blood and sweat). Some characters will want to go one way and some the other. I feel it is up to the GM to show to the players the good and less-good sides of _both_. So, while some more rules about orthodox cult progression paths are needed, remember (IMHO) that there can always be some who will do it by a different way. Instead of holding up the left elbow of the 8th assistant priest to the chief-sub priest, let the heroes investigate who put the red wine in the alter cup instead of the "blood of humackt" two hours before the ceremony (while the chief priest was praying to it! :-) Robert McArthur --------------------- From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham) Subject: names; magic mundanity; Vinga Joins Orlanth's Household Message-ID: <199407250507.AA07860@radiomail.net> Date: 25 Jul 94 05:07:37 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5286 Klaus asked >When Solsjenitsin returned to Russia, he first went to one of the areas >where many people have been send in internal exile, the Kolyma [a as in >dark] region of Sibiria. Is it just me or does this sound an awful lot >like a tribal name from Kerofinela? Which even has the Black Spear as a special weapon, if Kolyma really does mean dark (I couldn't find it in my Russian dictionary). And surely the Sambari tribe is stolen from the Ambarri, a Celtic tribe from what's now Switzerland. >Some time ago, the origin of Dara Happa was revealed on this Daily. I've always found the Harappans (an Indus civilization) to be similar in name. Elias pointed out > peloria - n. [Lat. < Gk. peloros, monstrous < pelor, monster] Unfortunately, it's not in my dictionary, but you'll find that a pavis is a type of shield. Barron wondered >I seem to recall some guidelines on writing stories for the >Argrath Book that deemphasis magic (anyone actually have these and care to >comment) In the guidelines, magic (especially healing and resurrection) is supposed to be much rarer than you'd expect in a RuneQuest game. If you get wounded, it's supposed to hurt. I don't really see this as contradictory; RQ merely exaggerates for dramatic effect. It's clear that it does this with fumbles (surely they don't happen that often in real life -- I have hit myself while fencing, so I know it's possible, but it also happened only once in many bouts). So magic is also exaggerated for convenience of play. And now, a tale told in East Ralios. How Vinga Joined Orlanth's Household by David Dunham As he returned home after slaying the dragon Aroka, Orlanth the Storm King saw the nymph Felaria, and was taken with her beauty. He approached her, and she offered him cheese and cool beer. He gave her a ring set with a blue-green drop of Aroka's blood. They sat and talked of the different places they had visited, how Orlanth had killed the dragon, and many other things. Before long, it was evening, and Felaria invited him to stay the night. The next morning, Orlanth continued on his journey. In due time, Felaria gave birth to a baby girl she named Vinga. Felaria's Power was Motion, so she wandered from place to place. Everywhere they went, Vinga learned from a different teacher, and she grew up skilled in all the arts, friendly with all people, and tall, strong, and beautiful. When Vinga became a woman, she decided to join her father's household. Her mother cried and told her not to go, but Vinga cut her hair and washed it with lime like a warrior. Felaria saw that Vinga's mind was made up, so she set the blue-green stone in the hilt of a sword and gave it to her. She gave her a bright-painted chariot so light it could leap over fallen trees, and two fleet, sturdy horses. And she painted her daughter with powerful designs to protect her from magic and arrows. Vinga set out for Orlanth's hillfort. That was the one place her mother had never taken her, so she didn't know that Bansh Bonebiter lived along the path. Bansh heard Vinga's chariot, and rushed out to meet her. She greeted him politely, but he invited her to dinner. "Your limbs will be fine broiling over my fire." "That is not to be," said Vinga, and she slung a stone at him. It bounced off Bansh's bronze breastplate, so she aimed the next one at his head, but he held up his arm and it bounced off his greaves. Then Bansh took a bow he'd made from the leg bones of his victims, and an arrow tipped with a tooth, and shot at Vinga. She dodged out of the way. She dodged the next arrow, but then Bansh shot two at once. One hit her, but it struck her mother's runes, and did no harm. She rushed forward, drew her sword and with the same motion cut off Bansh's arm. As he lay on the ground, he said, "I have never seen that blow before." Vinga answered, "In truth, I learned it from no master. My mother and I had to move on before I could learn everything from my teacher, so I taught myself that stroke." Then she cut off his head. Since her sling stones had bounced off Bansh's armor, Vinga decided to take it, but she had to pound it with rocks so that it fit her. Vinga continued until she reached the hillfort. "I wish to join the Storm King's household," she told Orlanth's porter, and he brought her into the hall. Everyone crowded in to see the visitor. "My lord, I wish to join your household and serve faithfully among your companions." "Many wish to join, but only those who are qualified may do so. What talent can you add to my household?" Vinga said, "I have slain monsters." She took out Bansh's head. "That is Bansh Bonebiter," said Lhankor Mhy, Orlanth's Knowing Companion. "He has killed and eaten many who travelled along the Low Path." Everyone praised Vinga's valor and skill. Humakt said nothing, but smiled grimly and took out a giant head with four eyes. Lhankor Mhy said, "That is Kankstank Neversleep, who rests only half his eyes at once. He killed many people and rent their souls so we no longer know who they were. Bansh Bonebiter swore loyalty to him." The praise for Humakt was even louder. Orlanth said, "Humakt is my weapon." "I can drive a chariot," said Vinga. Orlanth had a chariot prepared for his driver, Mastakos, and fixed a course. At Orlanth's signal, they both set out. Both jumped the log at the same time, and they sailed across the stream together. But Mastakos took the turn tighter, and was still ahead at the finish. Vinga said, "I can speak many languages." Orlanth's Speaking Companion Issaries spoke to her in the language of each land she had visited in her youth. Vinga answered each time, until Issaries spoke a language she had never heard before. "That is the tongue of the Mostali, who hide underground and teach it to no one," explained Issaries. Vinga showed Orlanth the armor she was wearing. "I can work metal." Orlanth showed her his great coat of mail, called Turnspear, made of iron links each inlaid with silver. "Gustbran is my smith." "I can dance," said Vinga. Orlanth called for his musicians, and Drogarsi stepped forward to dance against Vinga. They danced the Sword Dance, the Papou, and the Thrush Walk. Finally Drogarsi called to the musicians to play their most difficult and fastest tunes. Vinga missed one step, and as the musicians sat gasping for breath, the judges pronounced Drogarsi the winner. "I will be your loyal guard." Orlanth pointed to the wall of the hillfort, where one man remained while everyone else had gathered to watch Vinga's contests. "That is Elmal, my loyal thane. He guards the fort in bad times and in good." Several warriors slunk shamefaced back to the wall. Vinga asked, "Have you any one companion who slays monsters, drives chariots, speaks the tongues of distant lands, mends armor, dances, and will be your faithful and loyal guard?" "In truth, I have not. You have proved yourself worthy to join my companions." Orlanth placed a gold torc around Vinga's neck. "You have shown yourself well, because every man you contested with is the best in all the world in that skill." "Vinga has many talents. Perhaps there is one other thing she can do," said Orlanth's fool Eurmal. "She can warm her master's bed at night." Orlanth's wife Ralia gave Eurmal a cold stare. "That is one thing I cannot do, for Orlanth is my father," and she showed the hilt of her sword. Orlanth leaped from his chair and embraced her. "Why didn't you tell me you were my daughter? I would have given you a place of honor." "Would it have been the same place I hold now?" Orlanth laughed. "Probably not. But now you hold both places." --------------------- From: appel@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon Appel) Subject: WARNING ON SODA DOWNTIME Message-ID: <199407250440.VAA09333@erzo.berkeley.edu> Date: 24 Jul 94 14:40:13 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5287 I just wanted to warn you all that soda.berkeley.edu, the RuneQuest ftp site, is going to be down from approximately Monday afternoon to Friday of these week. soda is moving to Soda Hall, the new Computer Science building at Berkeley, and as a result it will be offline for a bit. As soon as soda is brought back online at the end of the week, everything should be back to normal for the ftp site. [and Henk, you might want to temporarily disable the automatic uploading of digests from Monday through Thursday evenings] Shannon ---------------------