From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 05 Aug 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Insects not (only) of darkness
Message-ID:
Date: 4 Aug 94 07:42:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5442
The (very nice) story about the humming-bird and its cause (butterflies
being insects, being creatures of Darkness) made me think about Insects
in Glorantha. I came to the conclusion that insects have their origin
as creatures of the darkness, but they go through a life cycle which
brings (at least some of them) through the other elements.
Larvae are typical darkness creatures - colourless, digging or rather
eating themselves through their food, and impanting their offal into
it. Only the most sophisticated of insectoids - intelligent or swarm
insects, giant or normal-sized - have developed a larval care which
gets over this behaviour. Some of them deliberately retain darkness
ties (like termites or ants with their fungus farms) while others, like
bees or wasps, almost totally abandoned darkness habits, behaving
almost like Solar beasts.
Gorakiki is a deity of many faces, and while (s)he stems from darkness,
(s)he learned to transform into other stages. The cycle from egg
through larvae and pupae to imago might even be paralleled to the
cosmic evolution of Glorantha - the oneness of darkness, water worming
its way into the world, the solid phase of the Earth developing the
light form, the imago (a sight-related word, thus of Light). Lastly,
while bursting from within, the spirit is released, to reform in an
egg.
This analogy works for the most sophisticated of insects, and for some
of them - like bees, wasps and butterflies - it works with only minor
adaptions. Butterflies rather relive the stages of the Earth - Green
Age as caterpillar, Solar Stasis as pupae, freedom in the winds as
imago. Dragonflies have strong water ties, spending their larval stage
in water, and their imago stage above it.
Beetles, flies and cave-dwelling ants and termites retained more
darkness ties, as did the nocturnal insects (moths, for instance).
Timinits may be classified similarly. Lucans are beetle-like, and
feeding on rotten wood seems rather darkness-relatedd to me. Myrmidons
undergo all the stages and might as well be non-darkness creatures. The
short-lived Dragonfly timinits are similar to their purely bestial
brethren, and the Arachans, like spiders, have a darkness way of being
a predator, luring into webs or other ambush tactics.
Thus, certain insects are acceptable to e.g. Aldryami - those which
overcame their darkness ties, and reached the light stages, most
notably bees. Butterflies are a mixed blessing, their larvae are
parasitical, while their imagoes fulfill important sexual functions for
the stationary plants. Flies sometimes do, mostly they are more
concerned with (beasts') offal - typically darkness.
So, while trolls still are closest to voracious insects like locusts or
to insects dwelling in decomposing matter (flies, beetles), their ties
to other insects are less certain. The presence of the elf slave at
Grubfarm says something about trolls and giant bees; the wasp riders
are even human pygmies (although inhuman enough to survive the inhuman
occupation within Dragon Pass).
(I'm perfectly aware that for any example I gave there are
counterexamples, but the universal darkness ties for insects disturbed
me as well, so here's my excuse. Take it or leave it. It made some
sense to me, anyway, but it's far from being a finished treatise. That
would come as an obscure 3rd Age Jrusteli Sage's opinions.)
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Sandy's magic rule fixes/variants
Message-ID:
Date: 4 Aug 94 07:43:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5443
Sandy announced that and how he is tampering with the magic rules.
Cool; I liked most of the suggestions.
Eastern "sorcery" or better mysticism as an extension of skills: How
close to the Land of Ni(nja/hon) Ki rules do you operate? Did Valkaro
and the False Dragon Ring produce something like Taoist Sorcery in LoN?
(I.e. western sorcery clothed into Eastern philosophy, but using
western sorcery rules?)
Regaining divine magic: I agree about making holy days easy times to
regain a lot of divine spells, but making them the only time to be able
to regain them, but then all of them, seems a bit hard.
I'd still rule that a day of prayer is needed for each point of divine
magic. Yet this doesn't exclude priests etc to regain all their divine
magic on seasonal or high holy days. Since they effectively enter
Godtime during the worship ceremony, they can spend as much subjective
time in Godtime as they need to regather their powers from the
appropriate places. Acolytes are less included in these Godtime
affairs, and can regain less of their spells, and Rune Lords mustn't
stray from the path of the deity, and shouldn't get more than one use
of each spell during the ceremony.
The ordinary "pray all day" rule to regain a point of magic should be
kept for priests - outside of the holy days. I'd allow one point of
divine magic weekly to be regained by acolytes, while priests could do
so daily. Otherwise, the magical service institutes called temples
wouldn't be able to teach spells etc.
I'd like to have a variety of different speeds for regaining divine
magic for the lower echelons of the hierarchy, but this debate is still
active off-line with Alex.
Since it is decided that we produce a translation of Free INT articles,
mine on regaining divine magic is on the list to be translated into
English. It coincides with some things Sandy said on the Daily and Nick
Brooke in Tales 12, but has a slightly different approach. I won't have
to translate it now...
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Lore skills and experience checks
Message-ID:
Date: 4 Aug 94 07:43:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5444
David Baur pointed out in reply to me that Lore skills don't receive
experience checks. I'm quite aware of that, but the way I proposed it
was not to reward a lucky dice roll with a check mark, it was rather a
twist of the training rules, by allowing the time spent listening to
foreigners or homespun stories as "research" time for the appropriate
lore skill.
I any skill is used continuously, some learning effect will rub off.
I'd apply similar rules even to sorcerous manipulations or, in extreme
cases, to characteristics. This way, the trainers don't become the
financial sinks of the world, be they temple-sponsored or not.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: zoology, holy days
Message-ID: <9408040749.AA26616@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 4 Aug 94 08:49:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5445
John Strauss :
>But note those sneaky lunar missionaries, over in the Teelo Noori
>soup kitchen. Free food for all lay members! But first, let's say
>grace, and thank Teelo Noori and all the Seven Mothers for the food
>that is set before us......
Love it...
--
Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | Single Point of Change, Multiple Points of Reference
---------------------
From: pearton@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za (Dave Pearton)
Subject: The testing of St. Myshella
Message-ID:
Date: 4 Aug 94 12:57:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5446
Hi there,
Following the discussion about the place of women in Hrestoli society and
the "official" adoption of St. Myshella into the saintly hosts I decided to
try and remedy in part the terrible ignorance that exists about the life of
this important saint.
This story might not be all that current but I've been to busy until now.
Please forgive me if the style is a trifle laboured, I'm in the
middle of thesis writing and still in that "scientific writing"
mode.
DISCLAIMER: Any resemblance of characters to any persons, living
or dead is entirely co-incidental (YEAH RIGHT! ;)
------------------------------------------------------------------
THE TESTING OF ST. MYSHELLA
Myshella was a fair and accomplished maid who lived in the lands
blessed by the words of the prophet Hrestol. She was the daughter
of a humble son of the soil who was content to remain and till the
good earth without seeking to rise to world of the warrior, a fact
that caused his goodwife no end of dissatisfaction, for in those
days a woman's worth was measured by that of her husband. This
worthy had only one child, his daughter Myshella, and although he
loved her dearly he secretly wished for a son who could transcend
the limitations of his caste, who might become a knight to defend
the land with martial prowess, or even a wizard who would minister
to the spiritual wellbeing of his people and most cherished of all,
a lord who would lead his fellows well in the ways that had been
passed down from Hrestol and Malkion.
Myshella grew up strong and fair and soon mastered the arts of the
goodwife with unsurpassed skill. Her parents were delighted as
they knew that such an accomplished and beautiful daughter would
attract a worthy husband, perhaps catching the eye of a knight or
even a lord! In those times it was expected that a women should
marry and that she conform to the caste of her husband. But
Myshella did not wish to become merely the wife of a great man, she
wished to be appreciated for her own prowess, much to the dismay
of her parents.
There were very few options available, even for one as accomplished
as Myshella. Those who had mastered and transcended the limits of
the farmers caste could, if they so desired, dedicate their lives
to the healing arts in emulation of the beatific St. Ximela who had
sacrificed her life for the health of those men who fought for the
glory of the Invisible God and his prophets. They might also join
the nuns who spent their lives in holy contemplation, removed from
the squalor of the world, perhaps even rising to the exalted
position of abbess.
Myshella was not interested in these, she wished to don the armour
of a knight and take the vows to defend the faith through the
martial arts. Her parents were horrified at her resolve and when
she would not put aside her dreams grew wroth with her for they
feared that she might be accused of heresy and be cast from the
bosom of the church. But Myshella was not to be swayed from her
path and she practised the ways of the warrior, in secret lest she
be chastised. Such was her ability that her skills soon grew to
match those of a seasoned warrior and so that she might have
defeated the captain of the village militia if she had wished.
After consulting with the chaplain her parents had resolved that
the only way of controlling and protecting their wayward daughter
was to get her married to a strong man. Now in the retinue of the
lord was a knight, Sir Alexis, a huge man, much given to loud
discourse, who was justifiably proud of his knightly prowess and
who had one been within a 100m of Black Hralf the weasel and only
sustained minor wounds. He had seen Myshella and noted that she
was beautiful and wished to take her as his wife. When he
approached her parents to ask her hand they felt as if they had a
foretaste of joyous solace, their prayers had been answered.
They were sure that Myshella would share their enthusiasm and put
aside her unwomanly desires for Sir Alexis was not ill-favoured and
she should surely be content to be the wife of such a great man.
They were thus surprised when Myshella railed and shouted her
displeasure at the news but they we steadfast, the union had been
sanctioned by the lord and by the chaplain and thus had the
blessing of God and of man. A woman must learn her place and
submit to her parents and husband and those in authority over her.
This was not acceptable to Myshella and she resolved to seek her
own destiny. She went to the lord, Baron Sandov the son of the
great Baron Peter who had been one of the companions of Prince
Siglat. She demanded that he admit her into his company of knights
on her own accomplishments saying that she was the worth of any of
his warriors.
Now Baron Sandov was a wise and learned man who had travelled far
and wide testing the limits of the ban, he had studied the
histories and learned that in other lands women could be highly
regarded as warriors, indeed that there were tribes of women who
rode fantastical beasts and were rightly feared by those who would
go against them. He was thus not adverse to her request, but Sir
Alexis, who was present grew wroth at the effrontery of the woman.
"A woman's place is in the home, to care for her husband and to
bear him strong sons!" he roared, "Once you are my wife I shall
soon cure you of these blasphemous yearnings."
"Never shall I be wed to such an ignorant bear as you," replied
Myshella, "if I wed it shall be to one who can accept me as an
equal in all things."
The lords chaplain also spoke out against Myshella, "If you permit
this then next women will wish to become wizards and minister to
the people and this must surely not be. The great prophets Hrestol
and Malkion were men and how can a mere woman hope to comprehend
and teach their message. I say that this must not be!"
The Baron Sandov was troubled and he sent them all away that he
might consider the problem. He sought the guidance of God by
consulting with the bishop, his holiness Jurgen with whom he had
often discussed matters of importance in the past. Long did they
muse over and discuss the problem. Baron Sandov was willing to let
Myshella try to prove herself and Jurgen agreed with him saying
that the teachings of Hrestol showed that all should be accepted
on their own merits. Thus Baron Sandov resolved that Myshella
should be allowed to prove herself, but that the testing should be
harsh so that he might not be accused of partiality.
Myshella showed great skill and courage and mastered all the tasks
set for her, she rode her horse through flaming obstacles, swam the
foaming rapids and defeated all the lords knights that cared to
challenge her in their favourite weapons. The Baron Sandov was
pleased that Myshella had justified his trust in her but Sir Alexis
grew angry and demanded that he be allowed to combat her, if she
could defeat him, he stated with laughing arrogance, then she would
be worthy.
The combat would be one of unarmed combat for Myshella had no
knightly arms and Alexis was confident that he would easily
overcome this puny woman with his strength and size. The fight was
one worthy of legend, the huge size and overwhelming strength of
Alexis was equalled by the skill, speed and stamina of Myshella.
The contest lasted from the first morning light until the shadows
began to lengthen toward evening with neither able to best the
other. As the fight drew out Alexis, who had been openly
contemptuous of Myshella's accomplishment began to realise that
perhaps she was worthy and a grudging admiration was born, while
Myshella began to think that Alexis was not so ill-favoured after
all. At long last, as the last rays of the setting sun sank so
both combatants sunk to the ground, to exhausted to continue.
Baron Sandov declared for all to here that Myshella had
accomplished all the tasks set for her with honour and in a manner
befitting a knight and that she would be welcomed into his
household as a true and trusted knight. All looked to Alexis who
hesitated for a while but bowed his acceptance of his lord's
decision. A cheer rose from many of the company, but there were
those whose faces were dark and vowed secretly to prevent Myshella
succeeding in her new life.
------------------
I hope you enjoyed it, sorry about the length. Please feel free
to comment, flame, etc. I might write more later, but I'm a tad
pressed for time and am working on a few legends of the Bliss in
Ignorance at the moment.
Yours,
Yak
--
***********************************************************************
Dave Pearton * ....As I was saying before I
Biochemistry Dept. * was so rudely interrupted
University of Natal * by one of my multiple
Pietermaritzburg * personalities....
*
pearton@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za * Naked Lunch (W.S. Burroughs)
************************************************************************
---------------------
From: sstair@cs.utep.edu
Subject: Agimori
Message-ID: <9408040941.AA26037@cs.utep.edu>
Date: 4 Aug 94 09:41:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5447
Sandy said:
> Bolo-Lizard riders are pygmies. Gloranthan pygmies are 2d3+3
>in SIZ and 2d8 in STR. They live in Prax (Bolo-lizard, Ostrich, and
>Impala folk) and Pamaltela (in the jungle). Of course, the Prax
>pygmies are not really related to the Pamaltelan ones (who are
>Agimori, of course), but they have the same stats.
This reminded me of something from RoC.
What relationship (if any) do the 'Agimori' of Prax
have to the 'Agimori' of Pamaltela?
Steve Stair
---------------------
From: PEARTON@MED.UND.AC.ZA (Dave Pearton)
Subject: Errrr, Um, Myshella=Elleish
Message-ID:
Date: 4 Aug 94 14:12:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5448
Er, um, blush.
In the story I posted St. Myshella is a regional variant of St.
Elleish (he says trying to worm his way out of it :(.
Thats what you get when you don't bother to go right back to your
origional sources. I am sure that someone did propose Myshella
though. Ah well I've always been fond of regional variation in
Glorantha (although admitting this has probably earned me Devin's
eternal emnity ;).
Yours,
Yak
pearton@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za
---------------------
From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Kill a Hummingbird and die a Hero!
Message-ID: <01HFIDXBRT0YE483VV@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 5 Aug 94 00:42:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5449
John Straus had the impression that hummingbirds are nice animals. It struck
me that the Aztecs of Mexico worshipped a dread divinity whom they called
huztipoctli (sp?) which translates as 'Sinster Hummingbird' (translators
translate it as 'Lefthanded Humminbird' to mean 'Hummingbird of the South').
Given that this blood stained numen was so horrific that even the Spanish were
appalled, it seems that Hummingbirds could be the Cult beast for allied spirits
of the Wizards of Gore. A flow on cultural effect would be the detestation the
kralori mandarins have for these creatures and so they have hummingbird
swatters (looks like a flyswatter but metal reinforced) to smite the evil
little creatures. This would find its way into the outside world as an exotic
type of martial arts weapon.
Klaus writes
> But cruelty to animals is a modern concept.
Really I think you are confusing the formulation of a philosopy with the
natural long standing sentiments. I know the concept had its roots in
victorian times but I feel that it codified already existing abhorrence of
sadistic treatment of animals. I mean the romans were appalled by the
Carthagian practice of ritual infanticide long before rights of a child were
even thought of. Besides the procuration of vellum (which was rare), and the
burning of animals at the stake for criminal offenses (which arose from
theological reasons, I can't think of a middle ages society which thought the
a person who skinned animals alive openly was ok. Thus I think that Tapping
animals would be viewed in the same light as people viewed the eithiopan
practice of carving meat from a cow while it was still alive.
Dave Durham writes
> Worlath is a Safelstran pronuciation.
I think you are wrong. Worlath is worshipped in Fonrit as a associated cult of
Tondiji in Gods of Glorantha (Pantheon locations) and in the same sentence it
mentions Yelm. If Worlath were simply a bad pronouciationthen I would have
thought it said Ehilm. Furthermore it is stated in the Western soldiers world
view in the Players book of G:CotHW that the False Gods were Ice Age westerners
which would be news to Orlanth (born in Kerofinela) and Yelm (born in heaven).
Furthermore in Trollpak, it talks about the Galalinni (ralian Horse Folk) as
being a diffirent culture than the Horse nomads of Dara Happa which allowed the
Second Council to recruit them as trustworthy mercenaries. In Bertalors
document (elder secrets), it is stated that the Galaninni worshipped Ehilm.
Lastly a distinction is made between the Stutifying magic of the False gods and
ineffectual magic of the the Pagan Gods in the Western Soldiers outlook. (this
implies that the false gods teach some type of sorcery but i'm not sure)
What I think is that Ehilm and Worlath were who the westerners said they were
in the prosopaedia. they refused to reveal their secrets and were expelled.
Ehilm then took control of the Galaninni who worshipped him during the darkness
whereas Worlath and Humct I believe would have known in Fronela. Their worship
would have been to western society what chaos worship of Krjalk is to the
lunars: a flaw in the spiritual character.
The Jrusteli in my view began to systematically explore the False Gods and made
the mistake that False Gods were actually part of the pagans. The end
result being that their worship survives in Umathela and Fonrit. Zrethus in my
view is no longer worshipped the RuneQuest Sight is now lost if my assumption
about Zrethus teaching the RuneQuest Sight is correct. I even thought of a
False God counterpart to Issaries: His name was Mammon.
Cheers The Blue Wizard of Nikosdros
c/o P.Metcalfe@csc.canterbury.ac.nz