From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 05 Aug 1994, part 2
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
---------------------
From: niwe@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Kralorelan nitpick
Message-ID: <9408041509.AA17016@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 4 Aug 94 19:09:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5450
Nils Weinander writing
jiml@falcon.teleride.on.ca (Jim Lai) writes:
>Now if there is any patterning after Chinese civilization, any restless
>spirits of the ancestors must be propitated (cursed be the False Emperor
>and the foreign Godlearner demons). Some form of ancestor worship
>compatible with sorcery is likely. Perhaps some filial individuals would
>even quest across the world to lead a wayward spirit of the dead home.
>There might even be popular tales of such quests (in which foreign customs
>and culture are revealed to be inferior, of course).
I think this one pf the points where Kralorela is very different from RW
China. Kralorelans in good standing do not remain in accessible spirit
form after death. The spirit leaves for Vithela, and thence to worlds
unknown when the emperor dies. Thus any human spirit encountered is
really disreputable, perhaps even a deceased Hsunchen (ptoi!).
/Nils W
---------------------
From: gkca16@udcf.gla.ac.uk (S.Phillips)
Subject: Beer'n'flutterbyes'n'otherthings'n'STUFF(tm)
Message-ID: <29012.199408041504@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 4 Aug 94 17:04:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5451
Hi from Sam
-----------
Beer:-
------
Jon Quaife came up with a good point the other day and that was that most
Gloranthan Beer contains no hops and so is lacking the preservative to allow
it to travel any distance or keep for any length of time. Most beer is brewed
on the day it is drunk. He claims that the Greydog clan have discovered the
secret of adding hops to beer. Bah! I might of known he would have thought it
was *them*. Biased history I call it!
I see Sartarian beer as a thick, gritty, foamy soup. Something like the
consistency of tinned oxtail soup and with a taste not dissimilar. It also
probably has an alcohol content somewhat similar.
Mead would be stronger, as would be the wine. Applejack, a winter speciality
of the Varmandi and other apple growers is v.v.strong. All three would
also be *much* tastier than the beer.
Flutterbyes and Bummingherds:-
-------------------------------
I have always been confused about putting an allied spirit in a butterfly. I
thought these wee buggers only lived for a few days. (Sandy?). And hummingbirds,
wouldn't these buggers need to spend all day sucking gick out of flowers.
Fat lot of use either would be. Unless of course Chalana Arroy temples are
surrounded by hugh exotic and beautiful gardens. *hey* now that is not such a
bad idea.... Like large Mental Institutions....
Animal Cruelty is a Modern Idea:-
---------------------------------
Tell that to the large Orlanthi whose cat you have just kicked.
Or the Chalan Arroy whos flutterby you have just stood on. (Well her Urox bro).
Animal Cruelty is a Modern Idea:-
---------------------------------
I thought we were living in a modern era?
Which 'age' is modern?
How do you introduce new players to Glorantha?
----------------------------------------------
This reminds me of a punchline. Work out the joke for youself..
"Gently"..
It is a bit like making souffle.. here is my recipe:-
-----------------------------------------------------
Glorantha itself is frighteningly complex for new players. I have found that a
good simple religion is the best way eg Stormbull or Issaries.
You can describe the new player's actions in one sentence and let them get on
with it. You (the GM) can then slowly work in nice bits of Glorantha and see howthey cope with them. Throw in a few moral dilemas, the odd weird encounter and
a few bits of heroism and myth interaction and Contrabass! (a bigger viola) -
they are hooked.
My current experiment is starting everyone as children and working them
gradually to heroes. So far they are still children and .: are not initiates
of any cult. I allow them to mimic and dress etc as if they were and I suspect
yer average man-on-the-dirt-track would not be able to tell they *were* children
(after all some of them are in their early 20's!)..
To aid with background I produced a many page guide for them - as they all came
from the same clan it was important that we all had the same info on the other
clanmembers. (I have been working this into a presentable form for all those
who requested a copy... It will be 20 or so pages A4 typeset w pictures..
I just need to check my maps w the "official" ones and finish off the
myths'n'legends bit. + clean up the scenarios which are in v.rough form).
I found that this is was *lot* more work than I first thought. Just condensing
and retyping a few paras from one of the sourcebooks can take *ages*. Trying
to "make it up" is time consuming too. Mind you, everyone should hsve a go at
this sort of thing because then you can *really* appreciate what the *true*
RQ-Guru's go through. My least favourite bit is stats. Eugh! But I have
strayed from the path (again).
A 'common knowledge' and a 'what my father told me' should be provided with
every scenario published and every new culture presented. They are brilliant,
but a lot of work to produce yourself. It is easier to just introduce new
players in a place where you already have this type of info. Borderlands had one
sheet of paper as a handout telling all players exactly what they had learned in
Pavis. I remember at the time it taught me a few things I didn't know and I had
been playing four years. Splendid.
I would :. stay clear of writing a player's booklet - unless you have a 'lot'
of time and find it is completely neccessary to your campaign. (and if you do - I am sure all your *buddies* on the RQ-Daily would like a copy, too!)
Funnily enough, I have found that new female players want to play Stormbullers
and other Mega-Violent types and new male players tend to go for something
a bit gentler ie Yelmalio. We did once have a new player play a Chalana Arroy.
HE played HIM for years. After he retired him he played a Humakti, though..
Cheers!
Sam. x. NSBS.
p.s. Hi to Bob! Thanks for the Haggisy complements.
Alex. When are we going out drinking?
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 04 Aug 1994
Message-ID: <9408041624.AA14724@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 4 Aug 94 04:24:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5452
Peter Metcalfe disagrees with me and human wave tactics. I've picked
up the thread in private mailings, suspecting most folks are
uninterested in gunpowder-era tactics. Suffice it to say that I have
read MANY military theorists and histories and it's quite clear that
the so-called "human wave" can be highly effective.
The point I'm making is that there is no One Best Strategy or
tactic in war. To every nation, war and the warrior means something
different, and if only for that reason, the way in which the army
fights will be different.
It is now realized that the Soviet army did not defeat the
Germans in WWII by adopting German techniques, but by perfecting
Soviet techniques. The Americans did not fight the Chinese in Korea
to a standstill by adopting Chinese tactics, but by adapting their
own fighting style to minimize the Chinese advantages.
Why is this interesting for Glorantha? Because it means that
every culture, every nation, can have its own combat technique and no
one of them is "wrong". The Orlanthi reject the phalanx fighting
style because of their culture, but if you were to get a bunch of
Orlanthi together and train them real hard to man a phalanx, you'd
end up with a half-assed phalanx. You're better off to train them how
to use ORLANTHI tactics to face a phalanx (presumably to fly or
teleport to the phalanx's flank and attack from there).
Kim Harries; re: my Divine magic suggestions
>(1) I like the idea of a skill roll for the priest/initiates being
>involved in worship/regaining spells.
At least the priests. Maybe not the initiates.
>(2) I also feel that maybe the priest should be allowed a little
>more flexibility in regaining his spells. Otherwise it seems that
>the gap in power between priest and initiate has perhaps narrowed
>too much.
The gap is still on the order of 10:1. Your suggestion of 1
point via a day in worship is probably reasonable for gamemasters who
want it.
David Baur: also re: my Divine suggestion
>I will talk this over with my group and see if we might offer
>another data point to your thoughts.
Thank you.
Joerg asks:
>Can you give many more altruistic deities apart from Chalana Arroy.
Sure. Dormal, Flamal, Storm Bull (who put HIMSELF at risk of
eternal destruction on behalf of the world), Orlanth (most of whose
actions since the murder of Yelm have been aimed at helping others --
his wife, his kin, etc.), Pamalt, Voria, etc.
>Maybe a rhetorical question, but which god of communication did the
>Fronelans have before Talor arrived?
Why wouldn't it have been Issaries?
>How long has Issaries been universally accepted? Weren't the God
>Learners instrumental in spreading Issaries (and Lhankor Mhy and
>Wachaza) far beyond the original region?
Certainly. But the spread started in the First Age, with the
Theyalan Councils. The God Learners simply accelerated a process
already begun. I'm sure Issaries was highly disappointed when the God
Learners were wiped out. Lhankor Mhy, too, since they were so big on
knowledge.
>> At the Dawn, I believe that Argan Argar
>> was an obscure troll spirit of little importance.
>Hardly, when the Only Old One was the ruling deity/avatar of
>Kethaela.
I don't think the Only Old One was an Argan Argar avatar
until many years after the Dawn. The First Council had Xiola Umbar
on it as the troll representative, not Argan Argar. Later on, when
the Council went to war against the Dara Happans, Xiola Umbar was
exchanged for Zorak Zoran(!). It was only later, IMO, that Argan
Argar came to importance as the bestest troll face to display to the
outside world.
>Much is credited to Xiola Umbar and Chalana Arroy, rather than to
>obscure Issaries, who came to real worldwide acceptance with the
>Jrusteli.
Issaries was spread across Genertela during the First Age.
That was hardly obscurity. Xiola Umbar, even now, is not particularly
"accepted" outside the trolls -- learning that a troll is a Xiola
Umbar priestess does not guarantee her safety, in the way that a CA
healer is pretty much protected everywhere. CA was probably spread in
the First Age, too (though she was already known in Dara Happa, of
course).
---------------------
From: NDROBINS@NDROBINS.FIN.GOV.BC.CA
Subject: Mudsharks and Adventurers
Message-ID: <9408041340.AA0490@NDROBINS.FIN.GOV.BC.CA>
Date: 4 Aug 94 17:31:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5453
Aren't mudsharks another name for dogfish? These are small
sharks with a dorsal stinger that are pretty common out here
on the BC coast. Size ranges from one to seven feet and they
always seem to show up when they're not wanted. Many times
I thought I had caught a salmon only to find another dogfish
on the line.
Re: Adventurers
My groups tends not have adventurers. The old D&D games we
ran years back had everyone acting like irresponsible teenagers
with lots of power. Now the characters have to be responsible
for their actions and live within the society. Adventurers are
looked on with distain and are usual running from the authorities.
As long as the adventures are performed through the clan/cult
then they are sanctioned, as most groups are hoping for another
hero. It is when greed replaces other reasons that the problems
occur. Then again, maybe a Gagarthi campaign would be fun!
Neil
_______________________________________________________________
Neil Robinson NDROBINS@NDROBINS.FIN.GOV.BC.CA
---------------------
From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: revelations etc
Message-ID: <01HFICX2PX8WRFN5Q9@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 4 Aug 94 06:20:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5454
Hi all--
- Peter Metcalfe reveals some awful secrets in x-rq-id 5406
And number 4 answers a question I was trying to resolve for Imther:
who do the Imtherians associated the large red Southpath planet with.
Of course it is Shargat the Destroyer, a war god no longer worshipped,
but occasionally invoked, and carefully controlled by the Khelmal
cult.
I picture that Shargat came to Imther after Khelmal sent the
Lightbringers (including Orlantio) off to hell. Shargat, as usual,
was destroying everything (probably including the careful work of the
dwarfs) by shaking the earth, throwing around lightnings, creating
wildfires, and generally causing a nuisance. Khelmal either binds him
to a chaos fighting task or has to trick him into going to hell, too.
Obviously, since the planet goes to hell, Shargat went there.
Since time began, the followers of Shargat first came to Imther in the
days when the land was called Malatain and helped to overthrow the
rival queendom of Balurga and consequently creating the Plain of
Stones, a barren and haunted land. These followers helped build the
Great Temple of Khelmal. The cult flourished for some four to five
hundred years and reached its pinnacle during the fall of the EWF
under the hero Todor Dragonreaver. Unfortunately, the cult was
largely consumed by dragons a few years later.
The founding of the kingdom of Imther saw a strong reaction against
the cult of Shargat. The practices of the ecstatic berserkers were
condemned and the Sacred Bands of Shargat were proscribed. Current
tales tell of the disasters of such practices. Some tales suggest
that Jannisor failed because either he or his followers invoked
Shargat in their war against the Red Emperor.
Now Shargat is an explicitly controlled subcult of Khelmal found only
in the Great Temple. I picture this subcult having one spell - that
of calling Shargat to enter into his invoker, a process that turns the
invoker into a mini-Shargat for the spell's duration (i.e. he gains
the powers of berserking, throwing lightning, etc. at the cost of
being totally consumed by the god - he burns up in a great and final
spectacle and passes on to join his god).
Shargat is everything that the founders of Imther, Imthus and Aidea,
are not. He destroys, they preserve. He favors his ecstatic bonding
of men, they favor the marriage bond. The rural Imtherians recognize
and fear Shargat (they call his name to burn away the flesh of the
dead - men only, of course; they curse his name when he burns their
homes down), but do not worship or propitiate him. For most farmers,
Shargat is one god they don't want around (just another reason that
Khelmal and Imthus and Aidea are so good - they keep Shargat bound
away).
As for revelation number 3, it reminds me that I had always thought of
the Pamalt rune as the 'South' or 'South-power' rune, and not just as
the 'Power' rune. (Of course, I'm guilty of thinking that Genert held
the reverse of that rune - the down-arrow - which would be the 'North'
or 'North-power' rune and that '- >' and '< -' should also exist in
Luathela and Vithela respectively. On that line maybe the Altinae
hold the Genert rune now.)
And so the heads keep on spinning. Thanks Peter! :-)
- Jim Lai martial arts suggestions and Sandy's followup
I like both your thoughts on these. I can picture the sorcery being
akin to a fifth limb (a tail if using a dragon image) brought into
play. The movements, gestures, and voicings of sorcery would all be
part of the martial arts skill and should weave seamlessly into
preparations for kicks, chops, etc.
I do think Tiger hsunchen should have a Tiger style (perhaps perfected
by those long-lost Tiger Sons from RQ2) which includes special metal
claws. A Pig style sounds rather amusing.
- Sandy's Current Divine Magic rules
On the whole these delineations sound good. My major problem is that
priests really need to get the ceremonial Divine Magics back more
frequently. At least in my campaign, such figures lead Weekly worship
services (which includes casting the Worship spell). If they only get
the magic back once a Season, then they need at least 8 Worship spells
in their repertoire (not out of the question, of course, but more
cumbersome). Personally, I like the idea of the priests having to
pray to recover the magic and being able to get it back much faster.
(Perhaps they can get it back whenever they lead a worship service?)
--Harald
---------------------
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Re: Rune Spell Recovery
Message-ID: <9408041700.AA29227@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: 4 Aug 94 18:00:51 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5455
First I'd like to state that I think Divine magic is the *least* broken of the
magic systems and I'd be quite satisfied with it left as it is. (I think
initiates get enough perks as it is without reusable Divine spells.)
...But having said that, I'm happy to throw in my tuppenceworth:
Sandy:
> I am now playing that on each holy day (to a maximum of 5 a
>year), an initiate can get 1 point of reusable Rune magic back. If he
>has a multipoint spell like Heal Body, then it must be done in stages
>(i.e., 3 seasonal holy days restores a 3-point spell). In addition,
>the high holy day gives each initiate a POW Gain Roll.
Fair enough. However, I imagine that the process of recovering
spells would require some sort of pseudo-HQ ceremony or some such which has
a less-than-certain chance of success. Therefore I suggest this process could
be abstracted to a dice roll of some sort. This would at least dissuade
folks from gratuitously blapping-off spells just before the holy day 'cos
they know for sure that they'll get 'em back.
Maybe a POWx5 or Ceremony roll for each point recovered? Better yet, a skill
roll appropriate to the spell recovered: to regain Heal Wound make a
combined Ceremony/First Aid% roll; for Truesword combine with Sword Attack%;
for Bless Crops use Plant Lore% etc.
IMO people with appropriate "mundane" skills should find certain
spell-recovery-HQs easier than others.
The logical extension of this is to allow everyone (initiates and priests)
to roll recovery for *all* their spells each Holy Day. Priests will naturally
recover a large proportion of their spells 'cos they have good Ceremony
and cult-skills; most initiates would recover few, if any, of their spells
because their skills (esp. Ceremony) will be poorer; and there would be a
neat sliding scale of would-be acolytes in-between.
Well, I've already said more than I intended.
___
CW.
---------------------
From: loren@marketing.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller)
Subject: Regaining Divine Magic
Message-ID:
Date: 4 Aug 94 11:56:52 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5456
Lewis Jardine writes:
>High Initiates --- Regain one point each holy day (5 per year max).
>Acolytes --- Regain one point per week if they partake in a service on
>their god's special day (eg windsday for Orlanth).
>Priests --- Regain one point for each day spent praying.
I have to say that I prefer Sandy's system. I like the idea that the cult is
more magically active around the holy day and much more active around high
holy days. That seems like an obvious truth about the world that works both
with Glorantha and with Earth (and Tekumel too, for what that's worth).
I'd prefer to use a straight proportional rule for regaining divine magic.
Something like this:
Lay Members: no divine magic
Initiates: 1/5 of Divine Magic regained on High Holy Day
Acolytes (Includes Lords): 1/2 of Divine Magic regained on Holy Days, All
regained on High Holy Day.
Priests: All Divine Magic regained on Holy Days. All Divine Magic regained
on High Holy Day. *Plus* one free casting of all spells on High Holy Day (used
in the heroquest/worship service).
This produces a continuous spectrum of Initiates and Acolytes, so that some
are better at invoking and recovering their divine blessings than are others.
Along with the suggestion that there be a new common Divine Magic spell for
increased Range, that works just like Extension does but for distance instead,
this would fix the few nits I have with the Divine Magic rules and their
implications for Glorantha.
-- Loren
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller LOREN@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu
Into the flood again, same old trip it was back when
---------------------
From: loren@marketing.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller)
Subject: Regaining Divine Magic, again
Message-ID:
Date: 4 Aug 94 12:25:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5457
John Strauss wonders if the effects of regaining Divine Magic only on Holy
Days would be incorrect for Glorantha or correct.
I like the idea. One of the nice things it would do is explain why the
Morocanth et al raided the Eiritha ceremonies in the Paps in the story in
Cults of Prax. They raided because it would stop the Eirithans from recovering
their spells, and would also stop them from casting their freebie spells (in
my conception of the HHD regaining rules).
>Cults will only be at full power right after a
>holy day. If you consider that good and proper, then fine.
I like the idea. At last there's a rules-driven reason why trolls are more
dangerous in darkseason.
>Another spinoff is that magic remaining, the day before the holy
>day, is "leftover magic". Cults will be free and easy with this
>magic, because they get it all back tomorrow.
It's also a good lure to get more worshippers! "I'll Heal your broken body
today if you participate in the dervish dance tomorrow."
>But note those sneaky lunar missionaries, over in the Teelo Noori
>soup kitchen. Free food for all lay members! But first, let's say
>grace, and thank Teelo Noori and all the Seven Mothers for the food
>that is set before us......
I like this one too. I agree that any worship service ought to result in the
regaining of spells, and I would tie the spells that can be regained not to
the size of the temple per se, but to the number in attendance at that service.
-- Loren
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller LOREN@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu
Into the flood again, same old trip it was back when