From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 06 Aug 1994, part 2
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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Precedence: junk
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From: yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
Subject: Newbie question
Message-ID: <9408051703.aa23451@uk.ac.ed.castle>
Date: 5 Aug 94 16:03:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5478
Mr Ennui (??) writes :
: I'm a newcomer to RQ and the world of Glorantha. The first
:product I bought aside from the rulesbook is River of Cradles.
:Unfortunately, this has left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
I am bewildered and concerned to hear it.
: After
:listening to your erudite discussions on this list, the actualmaterial
:disappoints me. Many elements, such as hordes of sentient monsters,
Sorry, I don't understand. Sentient monsters are a staple of the vast
majority of fantasy fiction. Indeed, they are almost universaly present
in earth mythologies. eg the Dwarves, Trolls, Giants, etc of Norse
myth;bthe Cyclops, Minotaur (sentient, though ignorant), harpies,
sirens, satyrs, centaurs, etc of greek myth (Greek centaurs were man-
eaters!). Chinese, Japanese and Indian mythology are full of monstrous
creatures full of cunning and inteligence which would tempt, decieve or
attack humans.
Such creatures are simply manifestations of human fears and anxieties
given shape and purpose. Fairy tales as morality tales are there as a
warning. "Watch out! The bad fairies will try to trick an decieve you!"
Remember, Tolkien's Orcs and trolls are the archetype for the creatures
in D&D and few would doubt his mythological scholarship.
Glorantha takes this a step further. In Glorantha a 'monster' is best
described as something which is different from yourself. The monsters
in Glorantha have their own cultures, myths, heroes and gods. Even broo!
So far as they are concerned it is these plaguesome humans that are the
monsters. In D&D and most other FRP games elves, dwarves, etc are almost
indistinguishable from humans compared to the Gloranthan non-human races.
Indeed humans from different races or cultures would appear more alien
to each other than the supposed non-humans.
:constant references to "adventurers" and the emphasis on treasure
:(sometimes found in stupid places such as gorp corpses) reminds of
:(*shudder*) AD&D. I'm not too crazy about bipedal ducks or mindless
:human animals either.
The 'Adventurer' label is much favoured by Avalon Hill. I suppose it is
better than puting PC or Player Character all over the place. 'Character'
is too technical sounding too. I just live with it.
Ducks are a point of much debate and disagreement between Runequesters. I
quite like them, others hate them. I just think they give a slightly
offbeat atmosphere to the game.
'Mindless human animals' must be referring to herd men. One thing you
may not know is that every animal species in Glorantha has at least one
sentient member. This goes for cats, dogs, horses, spiders, whatever. It
is part of the magic of the Gloranthan universe that every natural
phenomenon is imbued with some will or purpose which is personified in
some way. If humans have some special purpose of unique place in
Glorantha, I have never noticed it. Humans are just another faction
fighting for a place in the world. Trolls and ducks are not just strange
aberations, they are people too!
In Praxian mythology, when the wastes and prax were turned into desolate
plains a new way of living had to be found. The old ways were not enough
to survive in such a harsh environment. Waha found a new way where each
creature would have it's place and everyone drew lots to see who would
fulfill what role. The humans won so they got to be the herders and the
animals got to be herded and slaughtered. But the Morocanth cheated and
won the right to herd humans! (The Morocanth say that the humans cheated
but who can say?). The point is, everything in Glorantha has some mythic
reason and purpose. It is not just arbitrary. Most games just assume that
humans are better than everything else by divine right. 'Of course we can
kill orcs, theay are EVIL! Burn the scum!' I wonder what the orcs think
of all this. Glorantha has no truck with this one true way, divine right,
humanocentric, manifest destiny stuff. Good and evil in glorantha are
subjective and based on cultural and religious prejudices just like
they are on earth.
: The question I really want answered is: do other products (namely
:Glorantha: Genertela and Gods of Glorantha) have the same tone, mood,
:feel, flavor, etc of the majority of the RoC book?
Probably they do.
: I hope I don't come across as an arrogant newbie: all I'm saying
:is that what I've seen of Glorantha so far is not my cup of tea.
: Thanks in advance!
Not at all. You are entitled to your opinion. I liked RoC, but I was
already familiar with Glorantha. It is hard for me to imagine how
it would come across to someone not already familiar with so many elements
of the background and mythology behind it all.
Simon Hibbs
yfcw29@castle.ed.ac.uk
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From: rq%flamal@icarus.ssd.loral.com (Chris Johnson [RQ])
Subject: Orlanthi Battle Field spell
Message-ID:
Date: 5 Aug 94 01:45:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5479
>
>From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
>Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 04 Aug 1994
>Message-ID: <9408041624.AA14724@idcube.idsoftware.com>
>Date: 4 Aug 94 04:24:47 GMT
>X-RQ-ID: 5452
[...]
> Why is this interesting for Glorantha? Because it means that every
>culture, every nation, can have its own combat technique and no one of them is
>"wrong". The Orlanthi reject the phalanx fighting style because of their
>culture, but if you were to get a bunch of Orlanthi together and train them
>real hard to man a phalanx, you'd end up with a half-assed phalanx. You're
>better off to train them how to use ORLANTHI tactics to face a phalanx
>(presumably to fly or teleport to the phalanx's flank and attack from there).
^^^^^^^^
When I read this, a vision of Orlanthi *blinking* in and out of a battle field
came to me. Fly already lasts 15 min, but teleport is one shot. So...
Battleport
3 point
ranged, temporal, reusable
This spell allows the reciepent to 'teleport' line-of-site upto range meters.
Each meter moved, uses 1 fatuge and every 3 meters (or fraction thereof) moved
has a 1 second disorientation associated with it (this might be able to be
reduced with a skill roll).
Ex.
As the phalanx turns to face the group of Orlanthi, half the Orlanthi disapear
and apear 5 meters behind them. Disorentated, they shake their head for 2
seconds before screaming and attack from behind! (Each Orlanthi has used an
extra 5 fatuge and was disorentated for 2 seconds).
We use a roundless combat system that this would work well in. I'm not shure how
well it would work in rounds.
Again I just thought this up! no play testing done. What do ya all think?
Chris
+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
| Christopher Johnson | Regal Lager |
| Space Systems/LORAL | It's not just a beer... |
| rq@flamal.ssd.loral.com | It's a palindrome! |
+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 05 Aug 1994
Message-ID: <9408051801.AA21220@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 5 Aug 94 06:01:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5480
Joerg asks:
>Eastern "sorcery" or better mysticism as an extension of skills: How
>close to the Land of Ni(nja/hon) Ki rules do you operate?
Not very. Maybe I should strive harder to do so, but I hadn't
looked at LoN for a long time.
>Did Valkaro and the False Dragon Ring produce something like Taoist
>Sorcery in LoN? (I.e. western sorcery clothed into Eastern
>philosophy, but using western sorcery rules?)
Beats me. I guess I always assumed that after their initial
conquest, they simply switched over to native magic, though used in
an exploitative reactionary manner.
Stephen Stair:
>What relationship (if any) do the 'Agimori' of Prax have to the
>'Agimori' of Pamaltela?
They're the same race (negroid). As it happens, the Praxian
Agimori belong to the Men-And-A-Half tribe, which are huge
Watusi-like folk. In Pamaltela, most people are normal-sized, though
there are also tribes of Men-And-A-Half there. And some pygmies.
Sam Phillips (whom I've now met, and escaped w/o being forced to
devour any haggis):
>I have always been confused about putting an allied spirit in a
>butterfly. I thought these wee buggers only lived for a few days.
>(Sandy?). And hummingbirds, wouldn't these buggers need to spend all
>day sucking gick out of flowers.
Some butterflies can live up to a year. Still kind of grim
for their owners. I think that when a creature has an allied spirit
placed in it, or it is made into a familiar, that creature's lifespan
is indefinitely enhanced.
If I had a hummingbird familiar, I'd also take care to port
around a bottle or sac filled with sugar water for it to suck at. And
you bet I'd plant flowers around my temple.
Neil Robinson:
>Aren't mudsharks another name for dogfish?
I've heard dogfish called "cat sharks" before, but not
mudsharks. You get them seven feet long in Canada? Wow. I've never
seen one longer than about a yard.
Colin Watson
>First I'd like to state that I think Divine magic is the *least*
>broken of the magic systems
I agree. You should see the havoc I'm wreaking on shamanism
and sorcery right now in my private rules.
I note that my humble suggestion re: Rune spells seems to be
generating a lot of debate. My silence on the subject is not based on
lack of interest in what you folks say. Instead, I'm avidly reading
all the suggestions, watching as you guys sort it out, after which
I'll adopt the best refinement of my original suggestion.
M. Morrison.
>Sandy, are you saying that initiates and priests ONLY get a POW gain
>roll on holy days? Are POW checks gone in your system?
No. The POW gain rolls on High Holy Days (for initiates) and
Holy Days (for priests) are extra bonus POW gain rolls. The main
intent is so that Ernalda, Chalana Arroy, and Lhankor Mhy folks can
get POW gains without adventuring. An adventurer still gets more POW,
but since he has a shorter lifespan it all balances out.
---------------------
From: winterg@mary.iia.org (George Winter)
Subject: Adventurers are scum/not there not/yes they are!/Not/ARE/NOT!/ARE!
Message-ID:
Date: 5 Aug 94 09:43:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5481
One more oar in the waters of the odious adventurer!
I think the only people who are WRONG in this discussion are those who
forget that the sucessful RQ GAME requires an environment which allows a
group of REAL humans to enjoy pretending that they are a group of
imaginary people. I think the only answer to whether there is such a
thing a "good adventurer" is dependent on the context of the campaign you
are running. PS. I think that one or two "adventurers" would be almost
universally acceptable, its just the unfortunate/necessary reality that
we play RQ in groups of 4-8 that makes "adventurers" look like Cycle Gangs.
There several types of campaign, each suited to a level of investment by
the GM and the PC.
I think the hardest is to select a tiny area (Sun County for ex.), a
homogenous group of PC (Yelmali's) and then build a dense, rich,
environment for them to explore and interact with. This is a terrific
opportunity for long time PC-NPC interaction, and the tendency for PCs to
invent their own adventures and occupations. The downside is the work
involved by the GM (a lot), and the fact that groups tend to suck for
REAL role playing. Hey dont start yelling at me, its true! Most of what
each pc wants to do in a REAL ROLEPLAYING sit. i. really get to know that
nice daughter of Yorba Goldentree, buy a new shaft for the plow, etc. is
pretty individualistic. (in terms of Runequet One PC and the GM are
talking, which can be tiresome for the other PCs). So we naturally
prefer the group that sleeps, eats, and lives together, which is pretty
unusual from the get-go. Good roleplayers can overcome this, this week
we will go with you to buy your new brood mare, next week we can all come
over to Myrtils house and talk to her dad and brothers while I recite
love poetry, and in two weeks we will go over to Jork's for his barn
raising. Combat is at least a group activity.
My preference is for a campaign with internally consistent characters but
which allows the PCs to play a wide range of characters, or which allows
me more geographical lattitude for adventures. For example my last
campaign centered on a small band of itinerant Pupeteer Entertainers, my
current campaign finds wildly different PCs united by their membership in
the highly secret Free Wind of Sartar movement - playing spies and 5th
columnists in and around Sun County. Each of these ideas allowed me to
strike a balance between the need for a cohesive group, without requiring
that they all be stamped from the same cloth (religious or cultural). I
see the same kind of setup in the Riskland campaign. This approach
probably has the best chance for a workable campaign which relies
primarily on published material, but where the GM elaborates or
embroiders them to create a contious and enjoyable campaign. Technically
I prefer the first but find it too hard to come up with all the requisite
background material and innovative adventuring ideas.
The most extreme "old fashioned" campaign is where the characters are
only nominally cohesive, (meet at Gimpys, or your combined cults decide
you shoud all do this dangerous thing.) True "adventurers" ala D&D or
PAVIS are significantly harder to integrate into a regional campaign.
They are unrealistic, but they make for easy scenarios and pick up games
-- This is a GOOD thing. Many people want to just play the game, and the
scenarios being published are fantastic (Sun County, Doraster) but so
many people who play care more about being able to play their Babeester
Gor Runelord than starting yet another campaign. This campaign style
tends to result in enjoyable gaming sessions, reasonable character
development, and a motercycle gang mentality in the PCs. But as long as
people are enjoying the game -- none of these things are inherently bad
-- just less rewarding in the long run. But games built around this
attitude are/have blown RQ almost out of the FRP market.
For each of these campaigns "adventurers" play different roles, in the
more realistic campaigns adventurers should be considered potentially
dangerous and "people who are not like us". Of course the closest I
personally like the pseudo-reality of westerns and samurai movies where
if a group of four well-armed strangers come to town they get a variety
of reactions and are likely to be doing something interesting before the
week is out.
George Winter
winterg@iia.org
---------------------
From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: newbie help
Message-ID: <01HFJVJRH2DQRFNF40@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 5 Aug 94 08:03:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5482
Hi all--
- Mr Ennui(?) in x-rq-id 5464 asks for help
RoC is a mixture: part background, part cults, part lengthy scenario.
While I confess that I like the scenario, I can see your point. So
where to go to get the "feel" you're looking for.
GoG provides a lot of information about a range of cults, but without
much of the detailed background material. You probably have enough in
RoC for what you're doing--this is probably better if you're moving the
characters off to other areas and need brief descriptions of a range of
gods.
Genertela gives you a big picture view--all of the northern continent
with losts of brief background. It provides, I think, a good overview
to a lot of the wonder in Glorantha. Do you need it now--well, I might
suggest looking at a couple of other products first.
Are you starting a campaign? Trying to get into the feel as a player?
The answers might suggest different pieces to look at.
In the RoC area, I would suggest Sun County, particularly, or Strangers
in Prax (if you are GMing) as offering more of the depth and feel that
it sounds like you are looking for. Sun County delves into the entire
Yelmalian community near Pavis and the scenarios are not your treasure
seeking/kill monsters types.
If you want a pack that gives some good mythical/historical background
and an in-depth look at a Gloranthan culture--try TrollPack and its
companion module, Into the Troll Realms. These are not monster bashing,
but provide an up close and very personal look at a unique Gloranthan
species. They are also not that far from Pavis so you could link the
ideas from RoC into them. I think many people would rate Trollpack as
the best Gloranthan pack produced.
Given your reaction to RoC, I would probably steer away from Dorastor
or Shadows on the Borderland, though the latter includes the excellent
scenario, Gaumata's Vision, which may be along the lines of material you
are seeking.
You might also get copies of the two issues of Codex (a fanzine) from
Mike Dawson. The first has a lot of good background on Pavis that I
think would appeal. The second moves off to the northwestern land of
Fronela, but is also rich in background material.
Hope this helps.
--Harald
---------------------
From: mmorrison@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 05 Aug 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <1994Aug5.125933.94522@vnet.ibm.com>
Date: 5 Aug 94 19:59:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5483
*** Reply to note of Fri, 5 Aug 94 09:20:14 +0200
*** by RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Subject: Sandy's Divine Magic Rules
Colin writes:
C> The logical extension of this is to allow everyone (initiates and priests
C> to roll recovery for *all* their spells each Holy Day. Priests will naturally
C> recover a large proportion of their spells 'cos they have good Ceremony
C> and cult-skills; most initiates would recover few, if any, of their spell
C> because their skills (esp. Ceremony) will be poorer; and there would be a
C> neat sliding scale of would-be acolytes in-between.
This led me to wonder what happens if I (as an initiate) roll my Sw%
to regain my Truesword and fail the roll. What happens to the spell?
I'd say it's lost -- just like a one-use spell. For priests, they
simply don't have access to the spell; it's not lost because their
god keeps it for them -- a benefit of being a priest.
Michael
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