From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 09 Aug 1994, part 9 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk --------------------- From: watson@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson) Subject: Rune Spell Recovery again... Message-ID: <199408082201.XAA02126@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk> Date: 9 Aug 94 00:01:56 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5554 ____ John replied: >Making the recover non-automatic, as you >suggest makes quite a lot of sense. Whether POW*5 or ceremony? I'd make >it ceremony or cult lore combined with ceremony. Ok, assuming it's non-automatic I see three aspects which might affect recovery of divine magic: 1/ Divine Judgement (does God want you to have the magic?) 2/ Aptitude & ability of the worshipper (can you do the necessary rituals?) 3/ Opinion of the cult hierarchy (do the priests want you to have the magic?) Recent debate has shown that the balance between these factors will differ from campaign to campaign at the whim of the GM: If you're big on the Divine Judgement idea (ie. God *knows* if the worshipper deserves the magic) then I guess a POWx5 would be one way of abstracting this. ('course, the best way is for the GM to have the balls to make the call straight out: either you get the spells or you don't - no dice roll). Anyway, it should be all-or-nothing - either you're devout or yer ain't; if you're devout then of course god will return *all* your magic, and if not, tough. In the extreme, if it's down to God's Infallible Will, then it shouldn't even matter if you're an initiate or a priest - God knows what's best. If, on the other hand, we place emphasis on the ability of the worshipper to perform rituals, then spell recovery should be based on a skill which can be enhanced with practice; priests should be good at it; initiates should be worse; everyone gets to roll for each of their spells; if you fail you get to try again next time around (...or maybe not?): - Ceremony% is one possibility, though on its own it's a bit of a catch-all. - You suggested Cult Lore% combined with Ceremony. This assumes that the magic of each cult is distinct from all other cults: Orlanth's Shield spell is different from the Stormbull's Shield spell. It makes associate cult magic difficult to recover 'cos you need a different cult lore skill (which is a neat side-effect IMHO). - I suggested combining Ceremony with "mundane" skills to reflect the type of spell recovered. This would mean someone with a good Shield-parry% and Ceremony% would find it just as easy to recover a Shield spell from Orlanth as from Zorak Zoran or Stormbull (ignoring the mundane difficulties of getting into temples etc for the moment...). This view emphasises that all Shield spells derive from a single Shield Runepath regardless of the god. It means that those with good cult skills should find recovery of cult spells easier. - Or combine Cult Lore% with appropriate mundane skill...? - Another option which springs to mind is having a separate skill for recovering each spell. The skill starts at 0% (+ MagicBonus) and can be trained or increased by experience. Priests will tend to develop skills in those spells they need the most. Initiates won't have time to train in many spells. This is comparable to sorcery; except that the skill reflects an ability to recover the spell rather than the ability to cast it. (Hard work.) And, in the end, the Cult hierarchy seem to have a great deal of control over who gets to recover spells. Access to a temple seems essential. Do initiates require the guidance of a priest (leading worship) to recover spells? Do priests require assistance when recovering magic? There seem to be endless possibilities, and I haven't even considered the frequency of recovery yet. What makes a Holy Day special? Is it intrinsically more magical than any other time? Or is it just the gathering-together of many worshippers which makes the day special? If so, can priests arrange an impromptu Holy Day in times of need? Ho hum. What was wrong with the old rules anyway..? :-) If it ain't broke, consider all the possible ways of fixing it; and then Leave The Damn Thing Alone. ___ CW. --------------------- From: elias_kadri1@cl_63smtp_gw.chinalake.navy.mil (Elias Kadri) Subject: Re- Rune Magic rules Message-ID: <9408082210.AA04412@Sun.COM> Date: 8 Aug 94 07:00:40 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5555 Subject:Re: Rune Magic rules Howdy First of all, my thanks to Devin, Michael and Steven for answering my plea for Heroquest rules. The PCs in my current campaign are still quite a ways off from being heroquesters, but when they get there, I'll post the results for all to enjoy. Re: Sandy's spell renewal rules: I have a couple of ideas I'd like to toss out for flame bait. Sandy, you say one of the motivations behind your rules is to make two castings of a spell more useful than one. If we go by the runepath model, a divine spell is an example of a worshiper manifesting the power of his god, after which he needs to go and meditate on the nature of that power before he can use it again. What if we say that one such meditation is sufficient for all castings of the spell that that worshiper has sacrificed for? That is, spend one day meditating, and all your points of Shield will be renewed. Spend three days, and you regain the power to Resurrect. How many times you can do it depends on the power which you have invested in this aspect of your god. If you all don't like that idea, I have yet another suggestion. What if a worship service (any service at a sanctified site) allowed those officiating to regain 1 point of rune magic for each worshiper participating? I suppose you would have to throw in the Worship spell for free. This would allow a lone priest to slowly regain his spells by worshiping each day, or a priest at a major temple to get back a bunch by leading a large service. Priests at minor temples and shrines would regain power according to the size of their congregation. If several priests were participating in the service, they would have to split up the magic somehow, presumably according to their rank and the degree to which they participate in the ceremony. Neither of these says anything about reusable divine spells for initiates, which I don't happen to like, but that seems like a side issue anyway. Both of them assume renewal is available at any time, rather than just once a season, because in our group, we tend to a fairly fast pace of play. I haven't play-tested these yet, or even fully fleshed them out yet, they've just been running through my head, so I thought I'd write them down. What do you folks think? Elias --------------------- From: DevinC@aol.com Subject: Quickstrike Message-ID: <9408081840.tn804215@aol.com> Date: 8 Aug 94 22:40:49 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5557 Devin Cutler here again: The following skill was invented some time ago for a Blue Moon cultist who was a PC in the campaign. Quick Strike This manipulation skill allows a person to strike quickly, in a single strike rank, and then hide or resheath the weapon unnoticed. An attack roll must still be made to hit the victim (who will usually be unaware of any attack). If the Quick Strike is successful, whether or not it hit the victim, only those who are specifically watching the striker and make a scan roll will notice the strike. The victim of a quick strike must be initially unaware of an impending strike, otherwise, the skill will not work. If the victim survives the strike, he will be able to tell who hit him if he makes an Intx5 if the attack was from behind. If the attack was from in front, he will always be aware. Remember, the victim must simply be unaware that he is likely to be attacked by the striker. The striker could walk straight up to the victim, engage him in polite conversation, and kill him in mid sentence. All attacks made using quick strike are at -20%. This is usually cancelled out by striking from behind, but (as in the example above) not always. The strike may be performed with the following weapons only: Dagger, Knife, Shuriken, Thrown Dagger, Krarsht Teeth, Blow Gun, or Short Sword. Also, small implements like needles or stickpins may be wielded using this technique. If the quick strike fails, the attack must still be performed, albeit, using normal procedures. Also, if the quick strike roll is fumbled, the attack automatically misses and will fumble 50% of the time. Thus, if Gim Gim the Grim were walking down the streets of Pavis intending to assassinate Krogar Wolhelm (with a dagger envenomed with, say, Blade Venom POT 20), he could walk right up behind Krogar (who is presumably unaware of the impending danger from Gim Gim the Grim) and roll his QUick Strike skill roll. He also rolls his Dagger attack skill roll, at -20% due to using the Quick Strike technique and at +10% from behind. If the Quick Strike skill roll is made but the Dagger attack misses, then Gim Gim walks by having missed Krogar with his quick dagger thrust but was able to resheath the weapon before any could see him. If the Quick Strike roll is failed, then the whole thing becomes a normal dagger attack (albeit at the -20%). If the Quick Strike roll is successful and the dagger attack is successful, then Gim Gim walks on by as Krogar slumps forward into the arms of his comrades, who quickly look around and see only the crowd walking by. Combined with a disguise skill, the Quick Stirke skill makes for the ability to kil in a crowd, which is a useful assassination function. The skill is VERY RARE, and only taught by the Blue Moon assassins to their own, and perhaps by certain other assassin organizations, such as Krarsht. *** Regards, Devin Cutler devinc@aol.com --------------------- From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) Subject: Booze Message-ID: <9408082135.AA09081@sonata.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 8 Aug 94 11:35:26 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5558 Well, the Loonies could mix gin with naturally-occuring mineral water, with fruit juices, with water, with fruit juices and water, with herbal extracts, etc. And for whomever said unhopped brews cannot be laid up--please explain the fact that they were regularly laid up in England in pre-hops times for a year or so. You would not get malt vinegar from this practice unless you laid them up for a long time AND you got a specific bacterial infection of the brew. Also, you cannot in any reasonable way claim that there was no knowledge whatsoever of practical cleanliness. Otherwise, ropiness, sourness, etc. would not have been written up in pre-hops manuscripts as flaws to be avoided. They didn't know the precise mechanism for the batch going bad, but they knew that if they kept things clean they had a better chance of a good batch--for whatever reason. Also, to claim that only two modern brews are laid up is just showing off ignorance. Hardy's Ale is one of the small class that is designed to FERMENT IN THE BOTTLE. Chimay's ales also are meant to do this. However, ALL beers, ales, what have you, are and always have been laid up for some time. The first lay-up is to permit the yeast to settle out after the major fermentation is over. The second is to permit the yeast from the kraeusening to settle out. Then, the beer can be stored for several months to a year before you must drink it. If it is not exposed to air in this time, an un-infected brew will keep for a year or more. Modern beers are ALL laid up for at least a month or two before you EVER drink it. Many are laid up for five to six months to age sufficiently to drink. Ever had a green beer? (And I don't mean the colored stuff they serve on Saint Patrick's Day, either.) Beer has to age for a while after the yeast is settled, believe me. This aging is usually no more than a few months, but some beers are improved by years of aging. --------------------- From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty) Subject: Sun Exclusive! The Blue Wizard Speaks! Message-ID: <01HFPDDYZHPAECXLSU@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> Date: 10 Aug 94 00:11:53 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5559 Caution explicit juicy bits =========================== P. Michaels disagrees with me about Umatum seing him as the trickster. I only suggested him because in the Gods Wall Row-I, he has a particularly large 'Umatum', 'carrot' or what have you. I agree with him that Rakenveg is the native trickster, however I do not feel that Umatum is an outsider trickster. I see his name as being a Dara Happan Cognate of Umath. As to why he has a large carrot, I do not know. Perhaps he is misidentified? BTW Lanatum in the GRAoY I intepreted as Orlanth given a third name by which the Dara Happans know him (Rebellus Terminus and Oralanatus). I like the carrot idea and think it is very clever. Your Sexual Prowess spell is a wee bit too wimpy. having read Aristophanes 'Lysistrata' I would extend the spell length to eight weeks and rule it doesn't go away until 'satisfied'. Dispell magic does not work (although I know I'm on shakey magical theory ground here). Imagine the turmoil a dayzatarian priest must experience as he struugles to last out the season. One last carrottalk here. Harald Smith said that he thought that Pamalt's Rune was the 'South' Rune. This brought back memories in which I intrepreted it as the 'Spear' Rune with the obviously phallic connotations. This could explain as to why the God Learners though it represented 'Power' and the Pamalteleans thought it represented 'Kinship'. A further extension of this line of thought would intepreted the Earth Rune, the open square, as representing the entrance to the womb whereas 'Malign earth' shows the entrance 'blocked up' in the filled earth rune. I suspect that the people who practiced the RuneQuest Sight were seeing some very strange things before too long. Thus endth the carrottalk. --------------------- From: Argrath@aol.com Subject: Off off topic Message-ID: <9408082134.tn813543@aol.com> Date: 9 Aug 94 01:34:05 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5560 Re: How Talars keep in power I agree with Paul on this, but would add that the only legitimate government in the Gloranthan West is (prepare your ears for a neologistic cacophony) Talarism. If you overthrow the current batch of Talars, you only get another set of 'em. It's like pre-democratic Europe. Sure, you could revolt against the king, but you ended up with another king. Why not ask why Europe managed under kings from the end of the Roman Republic to the French Revolution? Even if some non-Talars took over, they would become de facto Talars and eventually would call themselves Talars. The Hrestoli institutionalized revolution. John Medway: When was your wife at Duke? I worked at Fowler's from 1984 to 1988; we may have run into each other there. Re: internet newsgroup AOL has newsgroup access now; CI$, from what I read, will have it soon. Yours in a white wine sauce, with shallots, mushrooms, and garlic, Martin --------------------- From: rowe@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Eric Rowe) Subject: RuneQuest Con 2 Errata Message-ID: <199408090528.WAA22485@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> Date: 8 Aug 94 15:28:14 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5561 Runequest Con 2 Errata: A couple of quick comments on the registration process. If you are not sure you will be able to make it, register anyway. We will give a full refund to those who notify us they cannot attend before the Con starts. If you just want to make sure you can get a copy of the Con programme and other loot from the Con, but you can't make it, register for just one day. That way we know how much stuff to print. We will still refund what you don't use to purchase Con-only material. eric ps Comments and questions to rqcon@erzo.berkeley.edu --------------------- From: Urox@aol.com Subject: Newsgroup Message-ID: <9408090151.tn827781@aol.com> Date: 9 Aug 94 05:51:40 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5562 Loren said: However, is a runequest newsgroup a thing that we, >> the runequest fans, will want to use? Then Colin said: Fine for me, but ... (there's always a "but")... How well are usenet newsgroups gatewayed (obviously not the correct form of the infinitive "to gateway", but whatever) to CI$, AOL, and the other online services? If it's not pretty well done, we'll split our population. It does have the advantage of advertising itself, though. I have AOL, as long as the group was rec.frp...AOL will get it, we don't get alt. groups. I really like the Daily because I don't have to hunt for the posts, it comes right to me, so it's cheaper. But if making an RQ newsgroups would get more people on, then I'm all for it. Mark Foster --------------------- From: Urox@aol.com Subject: Gin & Tonic Message-ID: <9408090151.tn827782@aol.com> Date: 9 Aug 94 05:51:44 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5563 Bryan on Beer etc: As for other good hot weather brain poisons: What does it take to make tonic? What else would the Lunars mix with their gin? You have to have bark from the quinine tree, which of course only grows in the jungles of Trowjang or Pamaltela. While Lunars in Northern climes drink their Gin straight, Quinine bark is the only thing that makes Corflu liveable (well, and a little help from Gorakiki Dragonfly) Mark --------------------- From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham) Subject: Master of Ceremony; God Learners Message-ID: <199408090612.AA27465@radiomail.net> Date: 9 Aug 94 06:12:29 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5564 John Medway says of initiate divine magic recovery: >Making the recover non-automatic, as you >suggest makes qquite a lot of sense. Whether POW*5 or ceremony? I'd make >it ceremony or cult lore combined with ceremony. > >(David Dunham and others will probably rail against an "improper" use of >"Ceremony" like this. Problem is that the skill is badly named/defined. >If it's ceremony, as in religious ceremony, it's ok. If it's merely spell >augmentation, then it ought to be renamed.) Not me. I've always used Ceremony loosely -- for example, an Eurmali's Ceremony includes knowledge of bad jokes. In my PenDragon Pass rules, I do have both a Religion skill (knowledge of the religion's doctrine, prayers, heroquests, etc.) and a Ritual skill (knowledge of magic, incorporating Ceremony, Enchant, and Summon into a single skill). The Religion skill must be rolled to get a POW check on High Holy Day (or to lead a service). Recovery of divine magic requires virtue rolls; the more you make, the more points you get back (1 point if three virtues, 2 points if four, and 4 points if you make all five virtue rolls). Henk wondered >What was the origin of the God Learners? I feel uncomfortable >about them being sorcerors (a.k.a. non-polytheists). > >How did they know about the gods if they did not recognise >them in the first place... Any learned sorcerer would know _of_ the deities of the pagans. And anyone who wanted to could go watch them cast their spells. It would only be a matter of time before some of them decided to see what would happen if they became initiates. Perhaps the first God Learners were lapsed initiates, who slipped back into their childhood Malkionism, and tried to reconcile their pagan experiences with what they'd learned from the Wizards. Remember, sorcerers don't deny the existence of pagan gods, only that they're worthy of worship. ---------------------