From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 09 Aug 1994, part 9
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
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From: watson@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Rune Spell Recovery again...
Message-ID: <199408082201.XAA02126@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: 9 Aug 94 00:01:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5554
____
John replied:
>Making the recover non-automatic, as you
>suggest makes quite a lot of sense. Whether POW*5 or ceremony? I'd make
>it ceremony or cult lore combined with ceremony.
Ok, assuming it's non-automatic I see three aspects which might affect recovery
of divine magic:
1/ Divine Judgement (does God want you to have the magic?)
2/ Aptitude & ability of the worshipper (can you do the necessary rituals?)
3/ Opinion of the cult hierarchy (do the priests want you to have the magic?)
Recent debate has shown that the balance between these factors will differ
from campaign to campaign at the whim of the GM:
If you're big on the Divine Judgement idea (ie. God *knows* if the worshipper
deserves the magic) then I guess a POWx5 would be one way of abstracting this.
('course, the best way is for the GM to have the balls to make the call
straight out: either you get the spells or you don't - no dice roll).
Anyway, it should be all-or-nothing - either you're devout or yer ain't;
if you're devout then of course god will return *all* your magic, and if not,
tough. In the extreme, if it's down to God's Infallible Will, then it shouldn't
even matter if you're an initiate or a priest - God knows what's best.
If, on the other hand, we place emphasis on the ability of the worshipper
to perform rituals, then spell recovery should be based on a skill which can be
enhanced with practice; priests should be good at it; initiates should be
worse; everyone gets to roll for each of their spells; if you fail you get
to try again next time around (...or maybe not?):
- Ceremony% is one possibility, though on its own it's a bit of a catch-all.
- You suggested Cult Lore% combined with Ceremony. This assumes that the magic
of each cult is distinct from all other cults: Orlanth's Shield spell is
different from the Stormbull's Shield spell. It makes associate cult magic
difficult to recover 'cos you need a different cult lore skill (which is a
neat side-effect IMHO).
- I suggested combining Ceremony with "mundane" skills to reflect the type of
spell recovered. This would mean someone with a good Shield-parry% and
Ceremony% would find it just as easy to recover a Shield spell from Orlanth
as from Zorak Zoran or Stormbull (ignoring the mundane difficulties of
getting into temples etc for the moment...). This view emphasises that all
Shield spells derive from a single Shield Runepath regardless of the god.
It means that those with good cult skills should find recovery of cult spells
easier.
- Or combine Cult Lore% with appropriate mundane skill...?
- Another option which springs to mind is having a separate skill for recovering
each spell. The skill starts at 0% (+ MagicBonus) and can be trained or
increased by experience. Priests will tend to develop skills in those spells
they need the most. Initiates won't have time to train in many spells.
This is comparable to sorcery; except that the skill reflects an ability to
recover the spell rather than the ability to cast it. (Hard work.)
And, in the end, the Cult hierarchy seem to have a great deal of control over
who gets to recover spells. Access to a temple seems essential. Do
initiates require the guidance of a priest (leading worship) to recover
spells? Do priests require assistance when recovering magic?
There seem to be endless possibilities, and I haven't even considered the
frequency of recovery yet. What makes a Holy Day special? Is it intrinsically
more magical than any other time? Or is it just the gathering-together of many
worshippers which makes the day special? If so, can priests arrange an impromptu
Holy Day in times of need?
Ho hum. What was wrong with the old rules anyway..? :-)
If it ain't broke, consider all the possible ways of fixing it;
and then Leave The Damn Thing Alone.
___
CW.
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From: elias_kadri1@cl_63smtp_gw.chinalake.navy.mil (Elias Kadri)
Subject: Re- Rune Magic rules
Message-ID: <9408082210.AA04412@Sun.COM>
Date: 8 Aug 94 07:00:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5555
Subject:Re: Rune Magic rules
Howdy
First of all, my thanks to Devin, Michael and Steven for
answering my plea for Heroquest rules. The PCs in my current
campaign are still quite a ways off from being heroquesters,
but when they get there, I'll post the results for all to enjoy.
Re: Sandy's spell renewal rules:
I have a couple of ideas I'd like to toss out for flame bait.
Sandy, you say one of the motivations behind your rules is to
make two castings of a spell more useful than one. If we go
by the runepath model, a divine spell is an example of a
worshiper manifesting the power of his god, after which he
needs to go and meditate on the nature of that power before
he can use it again. What if we say that one such meditation
is sufficient for all castings of the spell that that
worshiper has sacrificed for? That is, spend one day
meditating, and all your points of Shield will be renewed.
Spend three days, and you regain the power to Resurrect. How
many times you can do it depends on the power which you have
invested in this aspect of your god.
If you all don't like that idea, I have yet another
suggestion. What if a worship service (any service at a
sanctified site) allowed those officiating to regain 1 point
of rune magic for each worshiper participating? I suppose
you would have to throw in the Worship spell for free. This
would allow a lone priest to slowly regain his spells by
worshiping each day, or a priest at a major temple to get
back a bunch by leading a large service. Priests at minor
temples and shrines would regain power according to the size
of their congregation. If several priests were participating
in the service, they would have to split up the magic
somehow, presumably according to their rank and the degree to
which they participate in the ceremony.
Neither of these says anything about reusable divine spells
for initiates, which I don't happen to like, but that seems
like a side issue anyway. Both of them assume renewal is
available at any time, rather than just once a season,
because in our group, we tend to a fairly fast pace of play.
I haven't play-tested these yet, or even fully fleshed them
out yet, they've just been running through my head, so I
thought I'd write them down.
What do you folks think?
Elias
---------------------
From: DevinC@aol.com
Subject: Quickstrike
Message-ID: <9408081840.tn804215@aol.com>
Date: 8 Aug 94 22:40:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5557
Devin Cutler here again:
The following skill was invented some time ago for a Blue Moon cultist who
was a PC in the campaign.
Quick Strike
This manipulation skill allows a person to strike quickly, in a single strike
rank, and then hide or resheath the weapon unnoticed. An attack roll must
still be made to hit the victim (who will usually be unaware of any attack).
If the Quick Strike is successful, whether or not it hit the victim, only
those who are specifically watching the striker and make a scan roll will
notice the strike.
The victim of a quick strike must be initially unaware of an impending
strike, otherwise, the skill will not work. If the victim survives the
strike, he will be able to tell who hit him if he makes an Intx5 if the
attack was from behind. If the attack was from in front, he will always be
aware.
Remember, the victim must simply be unaware that he is likely to be attacked
by the striker. The striker could walk straight up to the victim, engage him
in polite conversation, and kill him in mid sentence.
All attacks made using quick strike are at -20%. This is usually cancelled
out by striking from behind, but (as in the example above) not always.
The strike may be performed with the following weapons only:
Dagger, Knife, Shuriken, Thrown Dagger, Krarsht Teeth, Blow Gun, or Short
Sword. Also, small implements like needles or stickpins may be wielded using
this technique.
If the quick strike fails, the attack must still be performed, albeit, using
normal procedures. Also, if the quick strike roll is fumbled, the attack
automatically misses and will fumble 50% of the time.
Thus, if Gim Gim the Grim were walking down the streets of Pavis intending to
assassinate Krogar Wolhelm (with a dagger envenomed with, say, Blade Venom
POT 20), he could walk right up behind Krogar (who is presumably unaware of
the impending danger from Gim Gim the Grim) and roll his QUick Strike skill
roll. He also rolls his Dagger attack skill roll, at -20% due to using the
Quick Strike technique and at +10% from behind.
If the Quick Strike skill roll is made but the Dagger attack misses, then Gim
Gim walks by having missed Krogar with his quick dagger thrust but was able
to resheath the weapon before any could see him.
If the Quick Strike roll is failed, then the whole thing becomes a normal
dagger attack (albeit at the -20%).
If the Quick Strike roll is successful and the dagger attack is successful,
then Gim Gim walks on by as Krogar slumps forward into the arms of his
comrades, who quickly look around and see only the crowd walking by.
Combined with a disguise skill, the Quick Stirke skill makes for the ability
to kil in a crowd, which is a useful assassination function. The skill is
VERY RARE, and only taught by the Blue Moon assassins to their own, and
perhaps by certain other assassin organizations, such as Krarsht.
***
Regards,
Devin Cutler
devinc@aol.com
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From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Booze
Message-ID: <9408082135.AA09081@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 8 Aug 94 11:35:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5558
Well, the Loonies could mix gin with naturally-occuring mineral water,
with fruit juices, with water, with fruit juices and water, with herbal
extracts, etc.
And for whomever said unhopped brews cannot be laid up--please explain
the fact that they were regularly laid up in England in pre-hops times
for a year or so. You would not get malt vinegar from this practice unless
you laid them up for a long time AND you got a specific bacterial infection
of the brew. Also, you cannot in any reasonable way claim that there was
no knowledge whatsoever of practical cleanliness. Otherwise, ropiness,
sourness, etc. would not have been written up in pre-hops manuscripts as
flaws to be avoided. They didn't know the precise mechanism for the batch
going bad, but they knew that if they kept things clean they had a better
chance of a good batch--for whatever reason.
Also, to claim that only two modern brews are laid up is just showing off
ignorance. Hardy's Ale is one of the small class that is designed to
FERMENT IN THE BOTTLE. Chimay's ales also are meant to do this. However,
ALL beers, ales, what have you, are and always have been laid up for some
time. The first lay-up is to permit the yeast to settle out after the
major fermentation is over. The second is to permit the yeast from the
kraeusening to settle out. Then, the beer can be stored for several months
to a year before you must drink it. If it is not exposed to air in this
time, an un-infected brew will keep for a year or more. Modern beers are
ALL laid up for at least a month or two before you EVER drink it. Many
are laid up for five to six months to age sufficiently to drink. Ever had
a green beer? (And I don't mean the colored stuff they serve on Saint
Patrick's Day, either.) Beer has to age for a while after the yeast is
settled, believe me. This aging is usually no more than a few months,
but some beers are improved by years of aging.
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From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Sun Exclusive! The Blue Wizard Speaks!
Message-ID: <01HFPDDYZHPAECXLSU@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 10 Aug 94 00:11:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5559
Caution explicit juicy bits
===========================
P. Michaels disagrees with me about Umatum seing him as the trickster. I only
suggested him because in the Gods Wall Row-I, he has a particularly large
'Umatum', 'carrot' or what have you. I agree with him that Rakenveg is the
native trickster, however I do not feel that Umatum is an outsider trickster.
I see his name as being a Dara Happan Cognate of Umath. As to why he has a
large carrot, I do not know. Perhaps he is misidentified? BTW Lanatum in the
GRAoY I intepreted as Orlanth given a third name by which the Dara Happans know
him (Rebellus Terminus and Oralanatus). I like the carrot idea and think it is
very clever.
Your Sexual Prowess spell is a wee bit too wimpy. having read Aristophanes
'Lysistrata' I would extend the spell length to eight weeks and rule it doesn't
go away until 'satisfied'. Dispell magic does not work (although I know I'm on
shakey magical theory ground here). Imagine the turmoil a dayzatarian priest
must experience as he struugles to last out the season.
One last carrottalk here. Harald Smith said that he thought that Pamalt's Rune
was the 'South' Rune. This brought back memories in which I intrepreted it as
the 'Spear' Rune with the obviously phallic connotations. This could explain
as to why the God Learners though it represented 'Power' and the Pamalteleans
thought it represented 'Kinship'. A further extension of this line of thought
would intepreted the Earth Rune, the open square, as representing the entrance
to the womb whereas 'Malign earth' shows the entrance 'blocked up' in the filled
earth rune. I suspect that the people who practiced the RuneQuest Sight were
seeing some very strange things before too long. Thus endth the carrottalk.
---------------------
From: Argrath@aol.com
Subject: Off off topic
Message-ID: <9408082134.tn813543@aol.com>
Date: 9 Aug 94 01:34:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5560
Re: How Talars keep in power
I agree with Paul on this, but would add that the only
legitimate government in the Gloranthan West is (prepare your
ears for a neologistic cacophony) Talarism. If you overthrow the
current batch of Talars, you only get another set of 'em. It's
like pre-democratic Europe. Sure, you could revolt against the
king, but you ended up with another king. Why not ask why Europe
managed under kings from the end of the Roman Republic to the
French Revolution? Even if some non-Talars took over, they would
become de facto Talars and eventually would call themselves
Talars. The Hrestoli institutionalized revolution.
John Medway:
When was your wife at Duke? I worked at Fowler's from 1984 to 1988; we may
have run into each other there.
Re: internet newsgroup
AOL has newsgroup access now; CI$, from what I read, will have it soon.
Yours in a white wine sauce, with shallots, mushrooms, and garlic,
Martin
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From: rowe@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Eric Rowe)
Subject: RuneQuest Con 2 Errata
Message-ID: <199408090528.WAA22485@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: 8 Aug 94 15:28:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5561
Runequest Con 2 Errata:
A couple of quick comments on the registration process. If you are not
sure you will be able to make it, register anyway. We will give a full
refund to those who notify us they cannot attend before the Con starts.
If you just want to make sure you can get a copy of the Con programme
and other loot from the Con, but you can't make it, register for just
one day. That way we know how much stuff to print. We will still refund
what you don't use to purchase Con-only material.
eric
ps Comments and questions to rqcon@erzo.berkeley.edu
---------------------
From: Urox@aol.com
Subject: Newsgroup
Message-ID: <9408090151.tn827781@aol.com>
Date: 9 Aug 94 05:51:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5562
Loren said:
However, is a runequest newsgroup a thing that we,
>> the runequest fans, will want to use?
Then Colin said:
Fine for me, but ... (there's always a "but")...
How well are usenet newsgroups gatewayed (obviously not the correct form of
the infinitive "to gateway", but whatever) to CI$, AOL, and the other online
services? If it's not pretty well done, we'll split our population.
It does have the advantage of advertising itself, though.
I have AOL, as long as the group was rec.frp...AOL will get it, we don't get
alt. groups.
I really like the Daily because I don't have to hunt for the posts, it
comes right to me, so it's cheaper. But if making an RQ newsgroups would get
more people on, then I'm all for it.
Mark Foster
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From: Urox@aol.com
Subject: Gin & Tonic
Message-ID: <9408090151.tn827782@aol.com>
Date: 9 Aug 94 05:51:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5563
Bryan on Beer etc:
As for other good hot weather brain poisons: What does it take to make tonic?
What else would the Lunars mix with their gin?
You have to have bark from the quinine tree, which of course only grows in
the jungles of Trowjang or Pamaltela.
While Lunars in Northern climes drink their Gin straight, Quinine bark is
the only thing that makes Corflu liveable (well, and a little help from
Gorakiki Dragonfly)
Mark
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From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Master of Ceremony; God Learners
Message-ID: <199408090612.AA27465@radiomail.net>
Date: 9 Aug 94 06:12:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5564
John Medway says of initiate divine magic recovery:
>Making the recover non-automatic, as you
>suggest makes qquite a lot of sense. Whether POW*5 or ceremony? I'd make
>it ceremony or cult lore combined with ceremony.
>
>(David Dunham and others will probably rail against an "improper" use of
>"Ceremony" like this. Problem is that the skill is badly named/defined.
>If it's ceremony, as in religious ceremony, it's ok. If it's merely spell
>augmentation, then it ought to be renamed.)
Not me. I've always used Ceremony loosely -- for example, an Eurmali's
Ceremony includes knowledge of bad jokes.
In my PenDragon Pass rules, I do have both a Religion skill (knowledge of
the religion's doctrine, prayers, heroquests, etc.) and a Ritual skill
(knowledge of magic, incorporating Ceremony, Enchant, and Summon into a
single skill). The Religion skill must be rolled to get a POW check on High
Holy Day (or to lead a service). Recovery of divine magic requires virtue
rolls; the more you make, the more points you get back (1 point if three
virtues, 2 points if four, and 4 points if you make all five virtue rolls).
Henk wondered
>What was the origin of the God Learners? I feel uncomfortable
>about them being sorcerors (a.k.a. non-polytheists).
>
>How did they know about the gods if they did not recognise
>them in the first place...
Any learned sorcerer would know _of_ the deities of the pagans. And anyone
who wanted to could go watch them cast their spells. It would only be a
matter of time before some of them decided to see what would happen if they
became initiates. Perhaps the first God Learners were lapsed initiates, who
slipped back into their childhood Malkionism, and tried to reconcile their
pagan experiences with what they'd learned from the Wizards. Remember,
sorcerers don't deny the existence of pagan gods, only that they're worthy
of worship.
---------------------