Bell Digest v940812p2

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 12 Aug 1994, part 2
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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From: (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 11 Aug 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <>
Date: 11 Aug 94 20:27:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5629

Nils Weinander writing

Oops, lots of typos in my post yesterday.

Gary James' Uleria story:

Lovely, I hope there _is_ a good source so that we can regard it
as official.

/Nils W


From: (Brad Furst)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 11 Aug 1994, part 2
Date: 11 Aug 94 03:49:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5631

Brad Furst here to comment about
> From: (Dave Cordes) 
> Subject: The grass is prax???
> Exactly which US prairies are you finding this 2-3 meter grass.  I spent a
> substantial part (all) of my youth in South Dakota, Wyoming, and Nebraska.  I
> have never seen grass 2-3 meters high.  

I grew up in Iowa and went to college at Grinnell.  The grass we 
know is modern stuff.  To witness authentic prairie grass you must find a 
preserve (like Grinnell College established) because it has been replace 
by modern species everywhere else.  Read primary source journal from 
100-200 years ago.  Indeed prairie grass grew taller than people.


Subject: Haggis and vegetarianism
Message-ID: <>
Date: 11 Aug 94 18:06:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5632

Hi from Bob Luckin !

John Medway asks (X-RQ-ID: 5614) :-

>>[Did I mention I have a good photo of your haggis being ceremonially carved in
>>Geos ?  (I also have a shot of Ken lapping it up, and of Greg pretending to do
>>so, but in actuality trying not to throw it up...)]

>Haggis? It was in the *troll* section, right?

Actually, it was announced as Sartarite haggis (at least that's what Ken
Rolston was calling it); I'm sure it was considered savoury rather than

Greg might have thought it should be in the troll section, though.  :-)

Someone remind me what won the troll category...  (I *think* Henk's Elf
fingers won the sweet category (is that right, Henk ?), and modesty forbids
me from revealing the winner of the wierd section.)

Chalana Arroy and vegetarianism :-

I know the RoC writeup says CA initiates must be vegetarians (the original
CoP version applies this to lay members...), but I'm not at all sure I buy

I can't recall a mythic reason for this stricture.  What has CA got against
(or for ?) the plant rune that she should treat its (non-intelligent)
creatures differently from those belonging to other runes ?

We know CA loves all life, and the RoC writeup says the worshippers try to
apply this equally to all living things, but then goes on to state there is
in practice a hierarchy which allows only plants to be eaten, and animals to
be killed to provide healing etc..

I prefer to think this stricture is not dictated by the goddess herself, but
is often practiced as a matter of choice by her adherents, for reasons of
squeamishness.  They'd rather not eat anything living, but since plants don't
tend to run away or resist being killed as much as food animals, they find
it expedient to take the easy way out and avoid eating animals.

But I think a really devout worshipper of CA might *deliberately* adopt an
omnivorous diet despite their own squeamishness, in order to prove that they
did view all life as equal.  These people would eat meat, fish, and plants,
and try to balance the amounts of each in some way over the year.

They would of course try to make sure the food was prepared as gently as
possible, with the correct reverence (Peaceful Cut, Food Song (did I get the
name right ?) etc.).  [BTW, what's the equivalent of these for fish ?]

Scavenging might also be quite a reasonable way for a CA cultist to collect
food.  Some worshippers may think that it isn't right to kill an animal
deliberately for food, but if you happen to come across a carcass during your
travels, and there is still something edible on it, then it is OK to make use
of what the Goddess has decided is beyond healing.

I just read John Strauss' description of the ex Storm Bull (X-RQ-ID: 5615),
and liked it a lot.  I think this would fit in quite well with my own vision
of the cult, although worhsippers like this would of course be very rare.

On a related topic : does the Wild Healer of the Rockwoods go round
impregnating things ?  Presumably being a CA it would want to avoid causing
distress to living creatures in this way, but it could still mate with
inanimate objects; it is still a child of Thed, after all.

Cheers, Bob
Bob Luckin      "Able was I ere I saw Corflu"


From: (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: More unsuitable-looking submissions.
Message-ID: <>
Date: 11 Aug 94 20:51:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5633

Gary James:
> Someone was asking why Uleria's High Holy Day occurs in Disorder Week.
> I assumed it was because she is associated with Disorder.

The Dara Happans certainly seemed to think so.  (See GRAY.)  Maybe they were
right for once.

johnjmedway on Geo's:
> Haggis? It was in the *troll* section, right?

Nah, trolls would just snarf the whole sheep, or whatever bits of it were
left on the bone...  Actually, Sam _won_ the savoury section with this;
since in '92 the same category was won by "Roast Demi-Bird Chick" (to wit,
chicken), a winning strategy is fast becoming clear...

Buy off-the-shelf Terran food, and think of a cute Gloranthan name for it.

Or in Sam's case, a token Gloranthan adjective.  ;-)

Peter Metcalfe:
> IMO, a western nobleman calling himself a Talar would be akin to a patriach of
> the Russian Orthodox Church during the publication of the Elder Protocols of
> Zion calling himself a Rabbi.  

Let's recall that many title have been preserved over comparable periods on
Earth, and that the Western languages are still quite strongly related.
Particularly the Brithini-wannabe Rokari may well use the same, or some
obviously related term.

> Grim Jim raises the question of Uleria actually being a man in some myths.  I
> actually beileve that Uleria is androgenous (perhaps one or the other) but due
> to the male bias of most cultures she is thought of as male.  Do the Trowjangi
> view Uleria as a desirable male?

Sandy Petersen:
> 	The point made by someone (alas, can't remember who) that  
> WHOEVER managed to oust the nobles and took over would simply become  
> the new nobles hit the nail right on the head. Throughout history,  
> there have been few cases in which a power group ousted its rulers  
> and then instituted a new social system. Generally, they just took  
> over the prerogatives of leadership themselves. 

Darn straight.  Anyone out there who hasn't read _Animal Farm_ go to
the back of the class.  However, sometimes this is less straightforward
than the usurpers "moving into" the ruling class, and bumping off the
incumbents.  For example, there's the convoluted example of Japan, where
the warriors formed a _new_ class of effectively ruling nobility (the
samurai), while marginalising the -- eh, I forget the Japanese name, the
old Heroic Age warrior-nobility, leaving their instituitions, up to and
including the emperor, in place, but almost entirely useless and impotent.

Ob. Glorantha: uh, I dunno.  Maybe the Castle Coast Knights work something
like this?

> 	I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the Rokari had experienced  
> several such crises in their history (probably disguised by  
> establishment historians), at each of which some band of warriors or  
> wizards managed to oust some of the ruling nobles and took over. 

Not all that likely, since we've "only" had about 300 years of Malkioni
history.  (Anyone have a King List?  I'd be surprised if they had an unbroken
dynasty, mind you.)  Doubtless happened all the time prior to Rokarism,
even among sects (and I'm sure there were several such) where such things
were supposed to be entirely hereditary.

> Vive le revolucione! (sp?)

Eh, not entirely sure... First tell us exactly which Romance language you
were massacring. ;-)



From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: only old one(?)
Date: 11 Aug 94 11:59:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5634

   Hi all--
   Just a quick comment on the Only Old One revelation by Sandy.  It 
   appears to me that if the Only Old One is an office with a number of 
   different possible successors, than the Pharoah is a direct parallel 
   and/or replacement of the earlier office.  IMO, Belintar's battle with 
   the Only Old One was then a struggle for that office.  Belintar's twist 
   was that he then remained alive through a succession of different bodies 
   while this may not have been the case with the Only Old One.  Or maybe 
   there was no twist and this is also how the Only Old One functioned?  
   The office is a spirit that possesses a series of bodies--the winner of 
   the Masters of Luck and Death tournament now (possibly the same or 
   similar under the Only Old One). 


From: (Nils Hammer)
Subject: unsub
Date: 11 Aug 94 13:05:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5635

I need to suspend my subscription for 10 days.


From: (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: joe uses a false source!
Message-ID: <>
Date: 12 Aug 94 21:37:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5636

Umm, Joe wrote

>Antirius is mentioned in the ten tests of Murzaharm.

I was so astounded by this relevation (no sarcasm here! I literally was
surprised) that as soon as I found the GRAoY, I searched for the reference.

But no mention of Antirius could be found! What was this?

Befuddled, I turned to the index and looked under Antirius is listed in making
an appearance in p.14 which is where Murzaharm's tests are detailed.

I looked again, no mention of Antirius.

Alas! Poor Joerg! I knew then what happened.  I have the 2nd Printing of the
GRAoY which contains some corrections.  I surmise that the first printing
contained a reference to Antirius in the ten tests.  Greg between then and the
second printing realised the reference to Antirius was absurd for he was not
existant yet.  Thus he changed the name to somebody else (I don't know who) but
forgot to change the index.

For the Record the nine testors of Murzaharm are:

1.  Hinds of Pelandra by Shargash.

2.  The Hungry by Verithurusus.

3.  The Tall Birds by Jethsarum (Why do I think of Big Bird in Sesame Street?)

4.  The Sharing Problem by Buserian.

5.  The Remebering Problem by Reladivus.

6.  The Judgement between Wives by Lodril.

7.  The Raibanth Bridge by the Pillar God.

8.  The Daughter's Share by Deumalos.

9.  The Brightness Challenge by Zayteneras.

Those this mean, Joe, that your grounds for opposing the identification of
Antirius as Yelmalio are no longer existant?

Also I must retract an accusation of Gregging made by Joe.  Apparently Gregg
did publish some stuff on the Kingdom of Logic in the Wild Hunt.  My apologies
for this spurious accusation.


the Blue Wizard.


From: (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: 'twas not me.
Message-ID: <940811224351_100102.3001_BHJ49-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 11 Aug 94 22:43:51 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5637

Hi all,

Sandy sez:
>Peter Whitelaw:
>>the God Learners infiltrated Fonrit with the establishment of  
>>Kalabar in 679 ST... Kalabar did not itself fall until 11xx ST I'm  
>>sorry I'm hazy on the date) at the hands of Soseko the Firelord  
>>making it the last of the God Learner places to fall.  (I dunno  
>>about the six legged empire).
>	The Six Legged Empire was no longer true God Learners by the  
>time it fell. But I'm hazy about when it fell anyway. BUT, in any  
>case the God Learners did not rule Fonrit, just one city. 

Thanks for the response but it wasn't me that asserted this!

Peter Metcalfe, was it you?

All the best,



From: (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Prax and the Wastes
Message-ID: <>
Date: 11 Aug 94 15:36:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5638

Okay, Sandy has cleared up a lot with his statement that the Wastes are
like the less nice bits of the Great Basin and Prax like the nicer bits.

Does this mean that the Praxians use creosote a lot?

Then there's Prickly Pear--quite a tasty little treat if you can get it
before it rots.


From: (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Prarie Grasses
Message-ID: <>
Date: 11 Aug 94 15:49:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5639

Okay, I'm basing my information on prarie grasses on a one-semester course
I took on praries as an undergraduate.  What I learned was that the
dominant grasses of the high prarie were blue fescue and red fescue.  
Buffalo grass was a "colonization grass" that was found in heavily disturbed
areas.  However, you need several square miles of land that is not disturbed
in the way that only humans can disturb it to get a self-sustaining
prarie going.  Grasses are the dominant plant species, but they are not
the only one.  I would wager that the Buffalo grass areas mentioned in
SD, WY, and NE, are all rather short of legumes.  I would also wager that
these areas were likely to have been cleared at least once by whites.

Don't think that it's unlikely.  Indiana has no more than a few acres of
primeval forest.  All the woodlands in that state except for that one
spot were clear-cut and regrew.  In Ithaca, NY, where I now live, it's
obvious to anyone who knows what to look for that the whole area has
been clear-cut--regardless of the fact that it's now liberally covered
with forest.

Wisconsin has less than one acre of primeval prarie--and it's all because
a hillside was on the wrong side of a road.

Now, there are short-grass praries, and they can be found in fringe areas
that don't get as much water as the tall-grass areas, but tall-grass 
praries were the rule, not the exception.  The reason that you see corn
growing so tall and not the "grass" is that the corn gets the land and
position that would have been held by tall-grass dominated populations if
it weren't cultivated.

The Great Plains is still a grass prarie.  The difference is that the 
dominant plant species are maize and wheat instead of fescue.


From: (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Quickstrike
Message-ID: <>
Date: 11 Aug 94 15:56:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5640

First, I didn't have any love for the way special maneuvers were handled in

Second, I insist that it needs to be a spell because of the difficulty 
inherent in drawing, attacking, and sheathing a weapon without being
detected.  The fact that the skill version looked no more difficult to
learn than tiddly-winks also irked me.  It's just too much to expect 
somebody to do.  Yes, I've seen quick-draw gunplay, but it's pretty darn
obvious that the guy is up to something when he moves.

Assassins shouldn't need this to kill people, anyway.

As for "bizarre munchkinism"--that was a more a result of composing a message
on an empty stomache.


From: (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Beer'n'flutterbyes'n'otherthings'n'STUFF(tm)
Message-ID: <>
Date: 12 Aug 94 03:34:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5641

S.Phillips does beer (boy, does he do beer...):
> I see Sartarian beer as a thick, gritty, foamy soup. Something like the
> consistency of tinned oxtail soup and with a taste not dissimilar. It also
> probably has an alcohol content somewhat similar.

Best argument I heard for distillation since... well, my last one, really.

> Applejack, a winter speciality
> of the Varmandi and other apple growers is v.v.strong.

I doubt the Varmandi are major offenders in the cider-brweing business:
after all they ceded the "apple" valley to another clan, and were never
exactly the Life-Aspected in the first place...  Lowland Sartar won't get
at all impressively cold in the winter, so I think you'll find Applejack
or similarly strengthened booze where it's colder anyway, or where they
worship Valind or Inora significantly (same places, in all likelyhood).

> I have always been confused about putting an allied spirit in a butterfly. I
> thought these wee buggers only lived for a few days.

One could always kludge that allying extends the flutterby's lifespan, or
more sensibly, that the spirit "naturally" moves from one generation to
the next in an Ecologically Pleasing fashion.  If it gets stepped on, though,
you're still outta luck.

> And hummingbirds,
> wouldn't these buggers need to spend all day sucking gick out of flowers.

Not all hummingbirds drink nectar, but for those that do (the most obvious
choice for CA allies, as has been observed), why not just humf round a jar
of honey, or something, and get them to stick their pointy beaks in that
every so often?  Much more convenient.

> Fat lot of use either would be. Unless of course Chalana Arroy temples are
> surrounded by hugh exotic and beautiful gardens. *hey* now that is not such a
> bad idea.... Like large Mental Institutions....

You don't have to be crazy to be a Healer, but...

> We did once have a new player play a Chalana Arroy.
> HE played HIM for years. After he retired him he played a Humakti, though..

Clearly a long-period manic-depressive.

> Alex. When are we going out drinking?

Last I heard, you were trying to clear it with She Who Waits, no? ;-)