From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 16 Aug 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: MAB@SAVAX750.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK (Mystic Musk Ox)
Subject: Gark the Calm
Message-ID: <9408150926.AA09531@Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Aug 94 09:24:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5697
>Gark the Calm
>=============
>Rich asks about Gark the Calm Cult Writeup. I know there was an official
>written up for a french magazine called Broos which is now out of print.
At Convulsion, I picked up a copy of a fanzine called 'Read Pheasant
Throughout', which has an unofficial Gark writeup. I was particularly
pleased to find it, because I've been looking for one for ages, and was
beginning to think (horror!) that I might have to MAKE IT UP!!!
I haven't got the address etc at the moment, but could find it if
you're interested.
Would be interested to see the copy from Broos mentioned above though...
Lords of Terror - Does anyone know when this is coming out?
cheers,
Mark Buckley
---------------------
From: mcarthur@fit.qut.edu.au (Robert McArthur)
Subject: Re: Gloranthan close-order troops and magic
Message-ID: <199408150953.TAA01167@ocean.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 16 Aug 94 05:53:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5698
Wow, it takes some time to read all these messages you know...
> > Roderick, responding to Alex questioning Sandy replying to somebody...
...
> > Sunspear strikes in a 1-meter circle (basically one man),
> > Thunderbolt and Sever Spirit hit one target.
>
> On the other hand, what do mass-castings of, say, Sunspear by circles of
> twenty magicians simultaneously do?
Since the turns in DP are 1 day long, how do the casters of these spells
get them back to use the next day? and the next, and the next etc. It
can't really be the troops who all get down and pray for it - imagine doing
that every day after a battle for 8 hours! My guess is that the "holy war"
nature of the fights, and the large numbers, excites the gods to lend more of
a helping hand, because after all, its likely the other b*&^*d will anyway!
It wouldn't break time because the priest et al *have* actually sacrificed
for the spell; they are just getting them back an hour at a time instead of
a day... Now, a good question is why can't they be got back more often even
that that? Is there a physical (:-) barrier to more than one casting per
day?
Robert
---------------------
From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Zzabur's True Lies
Message-ID: <01HFYCUBXIPUECZ8OI@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 16 Aug 94 10:39:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5699
Greetings Blue Wizard here.
I see I kicked a bit of debate about Zzabur in the I fought We won. As Joerg
corrected me, the battle in the Trollpak was the *unity battle*. I apologize
as I was confused by King of Sartar which mentions it as the I Fought We Won in
the tale of King Heort. So IFWW is a mythic moment which the God Learners
identified with the Final Battle of Mortality. Zzabur may have fought in it
and the First Council may have overstated the importance of the Unity battle
in the IFWW. I can't see any sign of it in the GRAoY. Once again I msut
apologize for botching things up.
Devin has the GRAoY.
--------------------
2a) Good point. I failed to spot that.
2b) The Evil Empire. Greg Stafford is actually taking the view of many
sartarites that the Lunar Empire is the latest face of an Evil Empire which
reserves to itself the right to lie, cheat and steal. The Sun falling from the
sky is the death of Yelm at the hands of Orlanth and the invasion of monsters
and the Ice Age are all God Time events.
3) Contradictory Syndics Ban/Closing. There are two probelms that I'm aware
of. Harreks job for the King of Jonatela and the contradictory dates for the
Closing. The second you take the dates from the G:CotHW as the earlier ones
have obviously been gregged. As for the first one, I don't know. If you have
other problems be glad to email me.
Congratulations from myself
---------------------------
Hi me (whitelaw), I'm glad I liked the idea. I'm so pleased that I said such
nice things about it.
To my questions about the communal magic system.
If you wish to gear the system for non-reuasable spells, then to be consistant
you should also gear then for attack spells. ie it will be much harder for a
Zorak Zoran temple to get a Sever Spirit spell.
No, I do not include associated magic spells.
David Cake insults me again
---------------------------
>>An added inducement is that I promise to debate with you a gloranthan topic
>>of your choice in the digest.
>I am not sure that this is an inducement, however! :-)
Grrr! I swore I dispatched Cacodemon to feast on your bollocks! Perhaps you
want Cwm as well? :-)
Cheers
--Peter Metcalfe
---------------------
From: Bob.Luckin@tiuk.ti.com
Subject: Chalana Cannibal Cult
Message-ID: <9408151232.AA25766@ibrox.tiuk.ti.com>
Date: 15 Aug 94 12:32:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5700
Hi from Bob Luckin !
Cannibal CA
===========
Peter (Blue Wizard as opposed to Whitelaw) writes (X-RQ-ID: 5654) :-
>>But I think that a really devout worshipper of CA might *deliberately* adopt
>>an omivorous diet despite their own squeamishness, in order to prove they did
>>view all life as equal.
>I don't doubt you on your philosophy, I believe the vegatarianism is just a
>cult interpolation of rules. But what if someone decides to practice
>cannibalism in addition to the diet above to prove all things are equal?
As I understand it, Chalana Arroy reveres sentient life more than non-sentient
life, so cannibalism would be unlikely - you can't eat sentients under any
circumstances. But then, the idea is soooo tempting as a way of freaking out
PCs... :-)
Perhaps we should start calling you "Peter Blue Wiz" in order to avert
confusion between yourself and "Peter White Law". Although I suppose we
could contract this to "Blue Peter" and have even more fun, confusing UK
subscribers who remember the TV program (or the naval flag).
Community spells
================
Colin Watson (X-RQ-ID: 5656) suggested Bless Crops and Resurrection should
be communal as opposed to personal spells. I like the idea (for some reason
more so concerning Bless Crops than Resurrection). But there is a possible
downside to this (or is it an upside ?)...
One way of punishing an offender in the community would be to delay or avoid
casting Bless Crops on their fields, and thus deny them the Goddess' bounty
for a season/year. Presumably this is a little harder to achieve when the
spell normally affects the whole community.
Suppose Herthor Goodplough's household failed to tithe properly to the cult
last year, despite having had a bountiful harvest. Not only did they not
contribute to the community's grain store laid up for hard times (perhaps
they sold all their surplus to a merchant, and kept the proceeds), but they
also failed to supply any labour when the temple roof needed repairing after
that bad storm last winter - despite them all being fit and healthy at the
time. With a personal Bless Crops, the priestess can just decide not to vist
them next time, but with a communal version, she might have to persuade the
bulk of the community to agree to specifically exclude the Goodplough fields
during the enactment of the ritual.
This could effectively give the priestess less power over individuals in the
community. But it could also lead to roleplaying opportunities during
village meetings, as Herthor tries to convince the rest of the households
that he was justified in his actions.
New gods from old
=================
Brian Maloney (X-RQ-ID: 5661) talks about reviving Gods who died before time
implying invoking Chaos.
> Ossentalka became Gbaji.
Some would say he became Nysalor, who was not chaotic at all. :-)
The examples quoted (Osentalka and the Red Goddess) are associated with
Chaos by their enemies, but not by their friends, so it would depend on who
you talk to as to whether Chaos was invoked in their creation.
BUT... They are both illuminated, and as a result they are both somewhat
ambivalent towards Chaos. Of course, Yelm himself is also illuminated.
So perhaps the real twist is that the process of recovering a dead god
results in the god's illumination (and that of the questers who succeed in
the deed ?), if they were not already illuminated.
Nah, can't be that obvious/simple...
Cheers, Bob
--
Bob Luckin voly@tiuk.ti.com "Able was I ere I saw Corflu"
---------------------
From: jonas.schiott@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: East What?, Rune Sources, and mani interesting furri animals (including The
Message-ID: <9408151338.AA09502@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 15 Aug 94 17:38:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5701
Lotta postings to reply to, now that the daily has started appearing on
Sundays as well (I can't get at a terminal during weekends).
______
Alex in X-RQ-ID: 5645
>To shoot off at a tangent, when you say "East" Ralios, where exactly do
>you have in mind? In particular, over how wide an area are you suggesting
>an anti-Arkat attitude might be prevalent?
What David is referring to is the East Wilds. He just calls it East Ralios
to separate it from _our_ campaign. In case you're wondering, while "East
Wilds" as a geographical designation covers a lot of ground, we mainly use
it in a cultural sense: Delela, Saug and Keanos.
______
Eric in X-RQ-ID: 5653
>Orlanth, Red
>Goddess, Magasta, Ernalda, Yelm, Subere, Humakt, Chalana Arroy, Mostal and
>Mastakos all have doubled runes to indicate their source whereas the Invisible
>God and Uleria have the infinity rune attached. Does this mean that they not
>quite the same gods who originally held this rune
It seems to me as if you're on to something, but have got it backwards. The
large group of deities you mention first (with the doubled runes) are _not_
the original sources of those runes. Uleria, on the other hand, _is_. Not
sure about the IG.
______
About the proposed RQ newsgroup:
I have mixed feelings about this. Personally, I don't have access to news,
and I suspect that goes for many other people on this list as well. So, the
big question is: would we be missing something? Or would it take some of
the pressure (you know, the babble) off the list? Would it draw a lot of
new people (is there anyone out there with news but not e-mail?)? I guess
I'm pleading for someone with a greater understanding of cyberspace to make
some sensible suggestions...
______
Paul in X-RQ-ID: 5663
> Has anyone else done much with totems? Wolverine and White Bear have
>been important in our campaigns.
If you look through the dailies for the early summer you might find my
posting on a suggested Ralian History, for which we dreamed up hordes of
totems. Including Moose, BTW. Proving which:
David in X-RQ-ID: 5666
>I'd been assuming the Pralori were American elk as well. Martin's Hsunchen
>descriptions are pretty good, but I believe he's wrong on the extinct-ness
>of the Galanini; he could be wrong on the Pralori species.
Right.
>Incidentally, in my East Ralios there are (thanks to Jonas Schiott) moose
>Hsunchen, the Aleci.
You're welcome. To be precise, Sten Ahrman (one of my collaborators, and a
biologist to boot) is the one who keeps spouting new hsunchens and animals.
BTW, loved your heroic abilities in X-RQ-ID: 5686. I'll try to talk the
guys into stealing some of them, though I'm still not sure about _every_
clan having one.
>I can't picture people as saying "Yes, I live in the
>Wilderness
Hmm. I think I can. But 99% of the time they just call themselves
"Delelans" or whatever, so for us it's mainly a conventional label that we
got from the Genertela Book and haven't bothered to change.
>Jonas
>can probably give you more detail on the historical reasons.
Sure. What do you want to know? If I don't already have an answer, I can
always make one up. :-)
______
Martin in X-RQ-ID: 5677
>The reason I made the Elk people Mooses, if I can recall
>back that far, was to make them as different as possible from the
>Deer people.
OK. I still think the difference between Deer and Elk is big enough. The
original reason for us having moose in our woods is somewhat convoluted. In
Kilwin, there is an inn named (in Swedish) "Muffliga Mammuten". Now, this
is utterly untranslateable, so when struggling with the English version I
was thinking about trying to find another allitteration on "M", and for
some reason an old Monty Python joke sprang unbidden into my mind (see the
subject line). We reverse-engineered it from there.
>My logic behind making the Galanini
>extinct is that animals whose usefulness has caused them to be
>spread among humans as a whole are more likely to be extinct. In
>effect, the animal deity loses his or her special connection to
>the tribe.
Good logic. And I agree with it in most cases. Our Galanini have hung on
because they have to a large extent begun worshipping another deity (Ehilm
or whatever...) of the type (solar) which usurped the horses. The basic
reason for their presence, though, is (no, it's not another gag) that for
cult ecology reasons, there have to be some solar worshippers hanging
around wherever orlanthi live. And we decided early on (long before Elmal
showed up - still don't know what to do with him) that we didn't want any
Yelmalians around (the stuck-up buggers wouldn't last a day in the
Wilds...). Anyway, the Galanini (and to a certain extent the other
hsunchen) are now too firmly tied into our background to be easily removed.
( Jonas Schiott )
( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria )
( Goteborgs Universitet )
---------------------
From: T.J.Minas@soton.ac.uk (T.J.Minas)
Subject: Runespell renewal, Matrices, Communal runespells, loads of stuff
Message-ID: <199408151335.OAA15163@mail.soton.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Aug 94 13:35:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5702
Hello all on the daily.
Finally got round to subscribing to this after several years of meaning to!
Have followed the debate for a couple of weeks now, so I will stick my oar in.
Renewing Runespells
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well, first up, I don't like the idea of "pools" the Rune Power system
suggested by David Cheng. Smacks too much of a wish by gamers for more power
for their characters. And I think it sucks as far as the Gods go, too. I mean,
if you were Ernalda, I'm sure you would want people to be casting Bless Crops
all the time, rather than have somebody go "Well, there is my 3 pts of Ernalda
Magic I guess I need Great Parry again"
Secondly, if you are a RuneLord/Priest out in the wilds and yur Holy day
rolls round, then just cast Sanctify (as commented on earlier, Extended as
necessary) and then your Worship (X) spell. But note that unless you have a
horde of Initiates around with you, you are going to have the equivalent of a
site or (at best) a shrine, thus being able to gain Worship (X) and the one
special spell of your deity available. You have probably 1 or 2 initiates (you
and your allied spirit) unless you can summon a load of cult spirits to aid
you.
Rune matrices for stuff like Bless Crops: Am not really convinced. Doesn't
really seem like the way that people would do it. Sure, from an external
viewpoint it may seem like a great move to sacrifice for Bless criops twice and
make 2 matrices, rather than 4 pts. But I bet the priest doesn't look at it
like that when he sacrifices for the spell, he'll want 4 pts worth because it's
a) more pious (I would say) ; and b) more immediately useful.
Incidentally, on a related point: Runespells in Truestone. Suppose this
Yanafal Tarnils Sword finds a lump of Truestone (blank) lying around near the
Block (He's a lucky bugger, isn't he?). Now, he blows all his and his Allied
Spirit's Rune magic into it, including some Sanctify, Excommunication, Shield
and Sever Spirit. Later on, he meets a Humakti Sword who challenges him to a
Duel, and the Yanafal Tarnils guy loses ("He's Dead, Jim"). Mr Humakti picks
up the Truestone.
OK: What I want to know is: what happens when the Sanctify is cast? Is this
going to Sanctify an area for Yanafal Tarnils worship only? And can the
Hiumakti then fill up the Truestone with _his_ Sanctify spell? Ditto for
Excommunication. Also for spells like Shield, Sever Spirit etc. Essentially,
does the source of the Rune spell in Truestone make any difference to a) the
casting; and b) the refilling of it?
Communal Runespells: No thanks. Can't see it is really needed. OK, I've heard
the argument re CA healers resurrecting the hordes, but the REAL limits on this
kind of stuff should not be game mechanics, they should be
cultural/social/religious limitations imposed by the strictures of society/the
temples etc.
Phew. Enough on Runespells.
Other stuff:-
Plowing. Orlanthi Ox-teams may well have to plow more than just the Carl's
area. Many feudal societies (eg Anglo-Saxon England) were too poor to own
sufficient draft animals themselves, so rented such from their overlords. Might
Orlanthi peasants not rent their overlords Oxen to do their plowing with?
Resurrecting Genert. Someone asked at Convulsion what would happen if you
killed all the Hyenas in the wastes, would Genert come back? Greg said, yes,
probably. It didn't seem to need a resurrection specifically, and it _did_ seem
to need the death of every last hyena....
Wolf totem: surely this would be Telmor, as written up in (I think) an issue
of Heroes that I have at home in the bottom of a box somewhere.
Uleria: As I understand it, she is the only surviving Deity from the
Celestial Court because she is the Goddess of Life, and how can you kill Life?
Arachne Solara: Someone said that Sandy would be bound to mention her as a
Major deity with few worshippers, then said she didn't count because she wasn't
active or something. As I recall, the Prosapaedia states that one of the Seven
mothers was an Arachne Solara Priestess. Makes you think what kind of powers
her cult might have, huh?
Finally (Big sighs of relief everywhere) Maculus' INT 19: Easy, read your
books again. Remember the bit where it says Divine Intervention can be used to
raise a characteristic by 1 point..... If you are 130 odd years old, I'm sure
that you could have managed one such DI in your time!
A last Query before I go: If all the waters of the world run towards
Magasta's pool, where does the water that ends up in the White Sea go to? (As
it is now unconnected to the central oceans, thanks to Valinds Galcier)
Have fun, everyone, Bye for now
Tim Minas (That's Olastor Deathsword to you boy!)
---------------------
From: watson@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Re: Communal Rune Magic
Message-ID: <199408151350.OAA23312@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Aug 94 15:50:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5703
_____
Peter (Metcalfe):
>> What we need is a new magic system for non-personal communal divine magic.
>
>The Temple defense spells provide an appropiate mechanism. There you have 1 pt
>of rune magic per 100 people and it regenerates daily. I suggest that this
>change to all spells for whatever reason.
>[...etc]
Yes, this a good start. The Temple is an obvious centre to base communal
magic around.
I think the rules for Temple magic could be expanded upon. "1 pt of rune magic
per 100 people and it regenerates daily" sounds like a bit of a kludge to
me. How about this:
Each temple has a "communal spirit" associated with it (Orlanthi might call this
a "wyter" [KOS p257]). The Power of this wyter is derived from the number of
worshippers: 1POW per worshipper (as sacrificed upon initiation?). The wyter
has powers like a priest (it can sack POW for Divine spells) but has no Will
to exercise these powers. Its Will comes from the community of worshippers.
An individual worshipper has very little control over the power of the wyter
(even if he's a priest). But when many worshippers band together, greater
powers can be accessed. I imagine the wyter's spells are much bigger than
those available to individuals - large areas of effect and truly awesome
results. POW costs for wyter spells would be in the range of 10s or 100s of
points (beyond the scope of individual magic. IMO Resurrect should fall into
this range BTW). To "cast" a wyter's spells many worshippers must cooperate
together in a ritual (maybe 1 worshipper per point of spell?). The whole
temple must worship for the wyter to regain/maintain its powers (typically all
its magic will be recovered each HHD).
I don't want to delve into specific mechanics too much, but hopefully you
get the picture. It should give stay-at-home priests something to work with.
Typical wyter spells would create large-scale effects which benefit or
protect the whole community (eg. Bless Crops, only bigger). They might
also know a few points of "normal" divine magic for day-to-day use, temple
defence etc.
There should be some tradeoff between having a wyter with lotsa POW and one
with lotsa spells. The benefit of lotsa spells is obvious; I guess a low
POW should affect the benefits of worship in some detrimental way... I can't
think of a good mechanic at the moment.
[I suggest that magic for mass combats might be derived from wyters also.
Personal magic seems rather ineffective in a full scale battle.]
Depending on your point of view the Temple Wyter can be seen as an interface
between a God and his worshippers; or as an actual part of the god; or
maybe the god is the wyters' wyter (many temples making up a cult).
Just a thought.
___
CW.
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: principle of Maximum Game Fun (MGF)
Message-ID: <9408142150.AA11225@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 14 Aug 94 22:50:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5704
Three cheers for Loren Miller...
Print, frame and remember...
>Summing up, for me Glorantha is a setting I really really really like
>to use in a game. I think it has very little value outside that. So, I
>think that game rules that apply to Glorantha should emphasize the fun
>of the game over "realism." It's more fun to have a Dove familiar for
>CA than a butterfly, and more fun if senior priests can cast more
>magic than junior priests in the same period of time, and more fun if
>sorcerors don't have to compute spell maintenance tables, so in my
>game I will choose rules that pass the principle of MGF. I recommend
>that everyone else adopt this principle, because if everyone believed
>this we would be a lot less scared of being Gregged and we would have
>a lot more *FUN*. And that's the whole point. IMHO.
---------------------
From: watson@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Wyttering on...
Message-ID: <199408151440.PAA24577@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Aug 94 16:40:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5705
>[I suggest that magic for mass combats might be derived from wyters also.]
I just noticed, while grepping back through the Dailies, that Joerg
mentioned using wyters for regimental magic way back in January.
So it must be right. ;-)
___
CW.