From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 16 Aug 1994, part 2
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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From: eurmal@spuddy.UUCP (Stephen Watson)
Subject: Gark the Calm ^U Garas the Peaceful
Message-ID: <9408151612.AA26913@spuddy>
Date: 15 Aug 94 16:12:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5706
I'd be remiss if I forgot to plug Read Pheasant Throughout which has my
unofficial Gark write-up in issue 2. Anybody who was at convulsion will
have seen a copy because Nick (the editor) spent most of his time trying to
sell copies.
Somebody asked if the Seven Mothers were bound by the Compromise. I'd say
they were because at Castle Blue the Red goddess agreed to be bound by time
(& the other Lunar deities), thus preventing the opposing gods from acting
directly against them. The Orlanthi called this cheating.
WHile I'm on wild and unsubstantiated theories: the Red Goddess is (part of)
Gbaji reincarnated, thats why you have to be Illuminated to worship her
directly.
If Lords of Terror is about to go to the printers, what's in it?
.: )( :. eurmal%spuddy.uucp@britain.eu.net
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From: dave_cordes@cl_63smtp_gw.chinalake.navy.mil (Dave Cordes)
Subject: Praying for Rune Magic
Message-ID: <9408151646.AA06610@Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Aug 94 01:37:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5707
CL QM-SMTP gw Praying for Rune Magic
Colin Watson:
>>Yes, *some* praying to get back spells; just not *all day*. People were
>>complaining that it's silly for priests to have to spend days-on-end doing
>>nothing but praying. I'm saying they don't: they just pray for an hour or
>>two and spend the rest of the time in the temple doing worthy stuff for
>>the cult - and no matter how hard they pray they don't get more than 1pt
>>of spell back per day.
Apparently I didn't make myself very clear when I agreed with you the first
time, so I'll do it again. I agree. They spend some time praying and the
rest of the day doing useful(?) things around the temple. Practical
suggestions could include: preaching, training initiates and acolytes,
discussing 'the false gods debate' etc.
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Zzabur, CoS, Greg.
Message-ID: <9408151657.AA17476@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Aug 94 16:57:52 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5708
Peter Metcalfe:
> As
> Zzabur was not part of the First Council (Eric Rowe can correct me on this:
> Is Zzabur a particpant in "the broken council LARP"?), It follows that
> Zzabur was not a particpant of the I fought we won battle. How to explain
> the discrepancy inside Glorantha ?
But IFWW wasn't a pitched battle at all, so who "participated" is a hazy
question. Even if it is a Genuine Universal Myth and not a God Learner
Stitch Up, as it is, by definition, in each case an individual facing and
defeating chaos alone, who would be able to tell, GL theories aside, who was
"really" there?
> 1) The God Learners were confused (again!).
Probably. One could wonder about this sort of thing in other cases too; is
Alone in Hell an instance of the IFWW? Discuss. Use only one side of the
paper.
> 2) Zzabur was bragging as usual.
Natch.
ANDOVER@delphi.com:
> So at the present time, the position
> in Great Britain is as follows: the Episcopal Church is established
> in England, the Presbyterians in Scotland, and there is no established
> church in Wales and Northern Ireland.
It's been a while since I was booted out to the CoS, but last time I checked,
they were _not_ the Established Church in Scotland. However, they were
formerly. Mind you, I think this depends on how you define "established"
in any case; the CoS was never Established to anything like the degree to
which the CoE still is. (Bishops in the House of Lords, etc.)
Michael C. Morrison attempts to Greg everyone using conflicting definitions
of "Greg": ;-) ;-)
> GREG (v): 1. To prove one's own theories or disprove competing theories
> by citing (usually) unpublished writings of Greg Stafford.
[...]
Trouble is, none of these seem to cover Greg Gregging people, which is after
all the origin of the term, if not its most common use...
Now we need a definition of the corresponding noun (no, not the Proper one...)
so that my proposal of maps of Glorantha marked out in Isogregs can work...
Alex.
---------------------
From: ROBERTSON@delphi.intel.com (Roderick Robertson)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 13 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID:
Date: 15 Aug 94 18:00:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5709
Alex Ferguson replying to me replying to....
>> Literally shoulder-to-shoulder in many cases. Pike formations
>> (particularly) were seldom less than eight ranks deep.
>We were talking about (circa) Am. Civil War era at this point. I was
>specifically questioning whether such troops were as dense as pre-gunpowder
>units.
So was I, I apologize that my introduction or Pre-gunpowder
formations threw you. Yes, the close-order formations of
ACW troops, British Colonials, etc. was shoulder to shoulder. Even in
WW1 the mass charges across no-mans land into massed machineguns and
entrenched riflemen tried to be shoulder to shoulder. This, however,
*does* count as Bone-headed.
>I'd say the reverse, that pre-20th century commanders had perfectly good
>reasons to use mass infantry formations, but that Great War and Great
>Patriotic War casualty figures give strong evidence for the commanders of
>same being an unfortunate mixture of the boneheaded and ruthlessly cynical.
As Sandy pointed out (but then someone contradicted) the mass
charges oftentime *did* work in 20th century battles. I don't know
enough 20th cent. warfare to debate further on these points...
>> I'd say that the magical strengths or weaknesses of units or armies
>> makes as much difference as an imbalance in any other arm.
>I'm talking about the effect of the presence of magic on the tactics as
>a whole, here, not what happens when one is magically outgunned. This is,
>indeed, not unlike comparing a battle where both sides have artillery to
>one where neither do, for certain kinds of magic.
>Let's not forget missile-affecting spells. Many heavy infantry units haven't
>been too bothered by enemy missile units despite being in close order, due
>I think in large part to being decently armoured (and having bloody big
>shields). Gross spells on volleys of arrows would act as a disincentive to
>remaining in close order.
I'd say that the magical defenses of the target unit will
probably negate the magical bonus of the attacking missile unit. If we
look at the spells available in RQ(n) as the basis of most
battlefield magic, we can see that offensive spells are matched by
defensive. Sure, you can throw Speedart on your arrow (+15% to hit, +3
dam.), I can counter with Protection 3 to knock out the magical
damage, or Shimmer to knock out the magical addition to hit, and my
defensive spell lasts for 5 minutes. Massed Firearrow? Massed
Extinguish. etc. etc. My point is that *only* when one side has a
magical advantage will tactics need to be revised.
As far as not having close-order troops, most spells do not have to
be rolled to target. In this way, they are more like snipers than
musket volleys. A non-com can say "Alright boys, on three, hit that
fellow with the white plume with your disruption spell. One, two,
three..." Until the advent of good rifles (and crack shots to use
them) you don't have this ability. So it doesn't matter if you are
shoulder to shoulder or spread apart as far as magic on the
battlefield is concerned.
>> Sunspear strikes in a 1-meter circle (basically one man),
>> Thunderbolt and Sever Spirit hit one target.
>On the other hand, what do mass-castings of, say, Sunspear by circles of
>twenty magicians simultaneously do?
Unless they have some ability (outside of current game rules) to
stack or amplify the spells, you get 20 1-meter circles to place where
you want. The Lunar Empire seems to have been the innovators
in creating "Magical Units" who can do more than just do 20 single
castings of one spell. Argrath has managed to create his own magical
units, to match the abilities of the Lunars. But I wouldn't give
pre-Lunar Dara Happans, or Praxians, or Holy Country troops the
ability.
>> But if an entire unit casts
>> these spells, they can clear their bit of field just as effectively as
>> grapeshot, and don't need to target a close order unit, since (with good
>> coordination on the caster's end) they target individuals on the opposing
>> unit.
>I'd assume targetting was non-straightforward under typical battle
>conditions. Longer ranges will be involved than in typical RQish situations,
>confusion will be greater (a worrying concept, I admit...).
A week or two ago I talked to this point, with the abilities of
Carracoles, rolling barrages, volley by company, etc.
>> Unless there is some social reason not to (ransom?), officers
>> would make wonderful targets for the few Rune-level spell-casters in a unit.
>Otherwise things would get a bit silly, as the officer cadre of either side
>is kiboshed in the first few seconds. Though non-com cynics might argue this
>would be a Damn Good Thing...
Then it's the turn of the non-coms... Anyone in any sort of
distinctive outfit is a priority target. Heck, I'd target the Non-coms
*first*, and let the officers try to lead their units without 'em.
Of course, the officers probably have good Shielding type spells up
as well.
Magic in Glorantha is just as much a Scissors-paper-rock type of thing as
Guns-vrs-Armor races in Gunpowder era ships and tanks.
Do we cast Protection now to protect against a possible arrow
barrage, or save the points for a volley of Disruption in case they
charge?
Roderick
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: The sun's wife and the flying feet of death.
Message-ID: <9408151815.AA17610@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Aug 94 18:15:52 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5710
Devin Cutler:
> While he accepts only one wife, it seems he keeps concubines (e.g.
> Galgarenge). It also seems there is some precedence for DH wives having many
> husbands (e.g. Esvenratha...."For I have many husbands already"). This seems
> very un Darra Happan.....is it possible they go by this?
Not likely, though other historic Pelorian cultures may have. I'm sure that
for Dara Happa as we know it, the ration is one wife plus as many concubines
as you can... keep (or whatever), for men, and Only One Husband for women.
> Finally, I wonder how, if the concept of marriage was being created for Yelm,
> how Esvenratha could already have husbands. This seems strange, since as I
> read GRoY, Lodril invented marriage and sold it to Yelm as a novel new idea.
This myth is of course explaining Proper Dara Happan Marriage, as it was
instituted by Yelm; that various other types, like the Lodril-worshippers
and other Pelorian riff-raff already have some sort of soi-disant marriage
would hardly be worth explaining away...
> b) The Evil Empire mentioned is obviously the Lunar Empire. But it states
> that the Lunar Empire was one that "had withstood the sun fallign down from
> the sky, and invasion of monsters, and an ice age".
> I can't seem to tie these three items with the Lunar Empire. Can anyone tell
> me what these three events are?
The sun falling from the sky escapes me for the moment, but the other two
certainly occur (post 1625) during Argrath's Saga. The return of the ice
is Valind getting his own back for being clobbered by Kalikos for all those
years, reasonably enough.
David Cake is quibbled with by me thusly:
> >I'm a bit confused about your Analogues here: from the G:G illos, I'd have
> >said Dragon style was something (ever so vaguely) like aikido, while
> >Centipede was faintly shotokan-ish.
> Both are standard karate stances, not restricted to shotokan, but probably
> not used in aikido. I used to know their names.
The Dragon style stance is very like the usual "Ten" stance used in aikido.
Why I suggested the comparison, unsurprisingly enough... Having lots of
Assorted Pseudo-Karate Styles would be Very Boring, I think.
> Well, I kind of like the idea that hsunchen ideas are still secretly spread
> by many martial arts schools, but I also like the idea that many schools
> are named after non-hsuchen animals to demonstrate their purity. Perhaps
> the hsunchen schools are secret underground organisations in most places?
I'd imagine that most MA styles weren't exactly encouraged by the exarchs,
anyway. Who wants a bunch of peasants running around getting uppity? On
the other hand, doubtless some are at least tolerated, or allowed to certain
social groups. Maybe there's a Badness scale, with Dragon likely to be at
the top, and Tiger the obvious candidate for being at the bottom.
Alex.
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Zzabur, CoS, Greg.
Message-ID: <9408151911.AA13354@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Aug 94 20:11:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5711
alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
>Now we need a definition of the corresponding noun (no, not the Proper one...)
>so that my proposal of maps of Glorantha marked out in Isogregs can work...
greg, n.: unit of desillusion. One greg equals the negative
amount of words published on a subject. Words written but
unpublished count as positive gregs. "Slontos has in the
order of several kilogregs."
--
Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | Single Point of Change, Multiple Points of Reference
---------------------
From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: a short imtherian tale
Message-ID: <01HFY0ZY6QMURLWU2Y@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 15 Aug 94 11:25:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5713
How Ratslaff Saved Khelmal
by Harald Smith
(This story has been heard frequently in Hortugarth in recent seasons,
though it is similar to stories told in the Archite, Gobindon, and
Grigor marls.)
Though Khelmal's sacrifice at the Hill of Gold slowed his foes, it did
not stop them. Orak, now burned and angered, followed the wounded
Khelmal closely to achieve his vengeance.
Khelmal grew weak as he fled for he had given much of his life force.
So he paused upon a hill to catch his breath and saw a tiny house
nearby occupied by a tiny imp. Khelmal asked the imp for aid and
shelter since he was grievously hurt and tired.
But the imp just laughed at him. Khelmal asked again, but the imp
winked his evil eye and Khelmal howled as his good leg burned as if
with flame. Hopping on his wounded leg, Khelmal fled on in pain and
agony while the imp just laughed and laughed.
Khelmal staggered into a valley and collapsed. He knew Orak could not
be far behind and his hope flagged. But as he raised his eyes he saw
an even tinier house nearby occupied by an incredibly tiny man.
Khelmal asked the tiny man for aid and shelter since he was so hurt
and tired he could go no farther.
The tiny man looked up and replied, "Ho, son of Yelem, but do you not
recognize me?"
Khelmal looked close then, drew back, and then looked close again.
"By the truth of my father, you are none other than Ratslaff the
Clown! I see I do know you, master of laughter and trickery. But how
do you come by this state?"
"How so yourself! But I shall tell you anyway. I came across a dwarf
as impassive as the stone he dwells in. And I told him I could make
him laugh. Well, I tried juggling first, but did not make him crack a
grin. And then I tried tickling him, but his rock-hard skin felt
nothing. Finally, I got mad and promised to make him as small as his
humor. But the spell went awry, I fear." Ratslaff the Clown paused,
but then laughed, "An awfully good joke on me though don't you think?"
Khelmal, bone-weary, still found the strength to smile and shake his
head. "There is still laughter after all, though it seems it's as
rare and small as you yourself."
Khelmal raised himself. "Enough, I guess. I must go on lest Orak
catch me here."
But as Khelmal started to walk on, Ratslaff called out "Wait! Perhaps
if I help you, you can help me return to normal size."
Khelmal stopped and though he considered briefly, he agreed for he was
desparate. So Ratslaff told Khelmal to hide behind the tiny house.
Khelmal laughed and thought this absurb, but went around anyway. And
as soon as he passed behind it, he was engulfed in shadow.
Ratslaff laughed. "You see, though my house has shrunk, the shadow's
as large as before. You just stay there and wait."
Khelmal did as he was told, but soon heard the roaring of Orak the
Hell Wind approaching. Peeking out of the shadow, he saw tiny
Ratslaff alter his appearance. And where before he saw Ratslaff, he
now saw a tiny duplicate of himself.
Tiny Ratslaff-Khelmal leapt up and down on one leg. "Come, mighty
Orak, do your worst! I shall slay you anyway."
Orak looked about, but couldn't see anyone, though it certainly
sounded like his foe. "Down here, you howling fool!" the tiny figure
shouted. And Orak looked down and laughed for he knew he had his foe
now.
Orak raised his foot to stomp out the figure, but suddenly the tiny
Ratslaff-Khelmal waved his hands and a feather floated down from the
sky to attack Orak. With stroke after stroke, Orak was paralyzed with
laughter as the feather tickled him again and again. Orak tried to
flee to higher ground, but the feather followed, still tickling. Orak
tried to flee to a mountain top, but the feather followed, still
tickling. So Orak ran and ran to ever farther places, and still the
feather followed and attacked, until Orak had disappeared from sight.
Khelmal laughed at the sight. "You have certainly done me a favor,
master of laughter and deceit. So I shall do you a favor in turn."
Khelmal cast his spell of true sight and showed Ratslaff the Clown the
real truth. Ratslaff laughed, too, when he discovered that he had
never been tiny after all, but that his size and his house's size were
nothing but illusions.
Ratslaff invited Khelmal in and though Khelmal tried to rest, he could
barely do so for all the laughter therein.
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: 4th Age Dragon Pass
Message-ID:
Date: 15 Aug 94 22:07:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5714
Devin Cutler in X-RQ-ID: 5690
> Just got GRoY and began rereading KoS. Need answer to the following:
> 1) The Wedding contest from GRoY made me wonder what the marriage customs are
> like in Darra Happa. Anyone have any ideas.
Greg read out of his Lunar Book draft, telling the earlier myths of
Western Peloria. Believe it or not, but these had humans in them before
Yelm began to rule...
> 2) KoS in the Introduction:
> b) The Evil Empire mentioned is obviously the Lunar Empire. But it states
> that the Lunar Empire was one that "had withstood the sun fallign down from
> the sky, and invasion of monsters, and an ice age".
> I can't seem to tie these three items with the Lunar Empire. Can anyone tell
> me what these three events are?
Check the end of the Complete History of Dragon Pass, especially
Inkarne's reign, and compare Greg's closing timeline. With Inkarne as
Argrath's wife, you'll get several events of the later Hero Wars for the
Shadow Empire.
> 3) A have asked twice now if anyone can reconcile the contradictory dates of
> the Syndics Ban/Closing as given in the Fornela section of GCotHW. Can anyone
> help me out by emailing me off line and discuss this? I would think this
> would be an important point to sort out. Esp if trying to run a Western
> Campaign.
If Harrek's sojourns into "Jonatela" refer to Karstall and Timms, he could
just manage to be moonboated into the Lunar Empire, take part in a couple
of Dart Competitions and return to Rathorela by 1609. In that case, no
timeline problem I can think of.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: gbosch@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu
Subject: Gloranthan Economics
Message-ID: <00982FEF.06809900.27@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Date: 15 Aug 94 22:53:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5715
Hi All!
I'm almost finished putting together my notes on trade in Glorantha. Since
the material is running up to around 60K, and since I'm having problems
mailing textfiles to the Daily, I will mail this stuff to anyone who wants
it. If you have told me you are interested, either on the Daily or by
private e-mail, you are already on the recipients list. Here are the e-mail
addresses of those to whom I am sending the material:
bonar@lagrange.rutgers.edu
ddunham@radiomail.net
LANGSL@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
100102.3001@compuserv.com
gwdugan@mcs.drexel.edu
joe@sartar.toppoint.de
Argrath@aol.com
If I have screwed up on your address, please let me know. If anyone else wants
this material, get in touch with me either on the Daily or by private e-mail by
the end of this week. These trade notes include: ideas on how local and long-
distance markets work, both seperately and together, regional trade notes for
each major area of Genertela, notes on commodities in international trade,
notes and mythology relating to currencies of Genertela. and miscellaneous
notes on production, marketing, and consumption. If people are interested, a
later posting might include ideas on running merchant characters, including
"cargo" tables, and my alternate income and price lists (I think the existing
ones undervalue money in relation to goods).
Gerald