From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 19 Aug 1994, part 1 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. --------------------- From: klaus@diku.dk Subject: POW Message-ID: <199408180727.AA09208@rimfaxe.diku.dk> Date: 18 Aug 94 11:27:07 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5749 sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) writes: >>How does your friendly parish wizard ever get a POW gain roll? > What does he need one for? A priest needs POW gains in order >to keep getting new spells. A shaman needs POW gains to keep his >fetch growing. A wizard only needs to study his spells and practice >them to keep improving. This takes time, not POW. Now I could be nasty and ask what a shaman's fetch needs to grow for. > Once a wizard's POW has reached a reasonable level, he only >needs new POW if he wants to make magic items. Or homing circles. Teleport is such a useful spell that I can't believe that Loskalm doesn't have a travel-by-wizard system. More importantly, sorcerers need magic items in a way the other types of magician do not. A sorcerer will want to have most or all of his INT available for manipulating spells. This mean that he will want matrixes for all his spells, or bound intellect spirits. In principle, he could store the spells in a familiar. However, a thorough search of the creature lists available to me (books 4 and 5 from GM's box and Glorantha Bestiary) has turned up only these incomplete creatures lacking only trainable characteristics: Chonchon, ghoul, hellion (which lacks ALL trainable characteristics), lamia, mummy, vampire, zombie. These all lack POW, so even if you could somehow persuade a suitable creature to become your familiar, you will have to spend POW. Binding intellect spirits would probably be cheaper in POW , as you don't want a familiar with low POW. Then there are some spells that are useful only if you have them in manipulated matrixes. One such is teleport. Travelling up to 10 m to a predetermined place has only very limited use. You might of course send letters or small parcels a long way, but to travel you need a matrix with 10 or more points of range and/or intensity. Look at the Loskalm map. With 16 points of range, a teleport center anywhere in central Loskalm could cover the whole country. Any sorcerer with a homing circle in the kings castle could send a message there from anywhere in Loskalm if he had a matrix with a few points of range. How many depends on his INT, how many emergency spells he has in his own memory and exactly where he is. I am sure that there are many such matrixes and homing circles, and that special transport wizards in Northpoint have homing circles all around the country. These would also be used to move people, and for this larger matrixes are needed. Those of the kings special agents who work in the far provinces are probably rather small. Maybe create familiar SIZ is useful after all. Note that a network structure is not much better than a star. If you want a station every 80 km, you need SIZ + 13 points of manipulation in stead of SIZ + 16. With that many stations, you need an awful lot of transport wizards, who get tied to their stations. Fly is a spell that is much more useful with just a few points of manipulation in a matrix. (It is really a misnamed telekinesis spell). Immortality goes from being useless to priceless with just a few points of duration in a matrix. Additionally, a wizard will want bound power spirits, to enable him to use more magic points than he produces himself. So will other magicians, of course, but they don't need as many mp's as do sorcerers. Most spirit spells cost one mp, most divine spells none. Sorcery spells often have to be manipulated to be useful. A wizard need not make all his matrixes himself, of course, some probably come with the job. > But in any case, if the wizard leads services for the >Invisible God, I'd give him a POW gain roll every Sacred Time. GoG says explicitly that wizards don't get POW gain rolls for leading services (Cults Book page 48). I will end with a somewhat related question: The immortality spell requires some interesting components. What would work in Glorantha? Several things, I suppose. A Vadeli baby? Sandy said some time ago that the Veldang are really Vadeli. Does that mean that a Veldang baby would do? Who in Fonrit knows? Or are the Vadeli more like the church of immortality? Klaus O K PS. A few days ago I said that priests will only fail their enchantment rolls 5% of the time because they have access to "invigorate" spells. The spell is really called endurance. Sorry about that. --------------------- From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty) Subject: Revenge of the Blue Wizard. Message-ID: <01HG2FLG5JGIED0VWL@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> Date: 19 Aug 94 08:42:32 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5750 John Hughes: ------------ Your Dorraddi riddle that you couldn't get. >Keraun comes and he children dance; the mother does nor dance. I presume the correct version is 'Keraun comes and her children dance; the mother does not dance' The answer is of course, the children being rain (or lightning) the mother is the cloud. Lord of the Runes ----------------- >>And surely for the Moon rune, Annilla should be its first holder. Jonas wrote >Yes? have I contradicted this? Annilla's runes are Sea, Moon and Darkness. No infinity rune. I admit defeat in the case of Daka Fal but Horned Man still remains to be explained. CoT (or some other source) states that the spirit rune was not yet realized during the Golden Age. Thanks for getting my name right anyway! :-) Joerg cites the Emperor Yelmgatha: Who? I must get a copy of the Book of Emperors or I will go insane! Harald Smith: Doing the switch of the Blue Wizard and the Whitelaw will have very disasterous consequences for you: You will become obsessed about a tiny place in Peloria called Imth... what? happened already? You have nothing to worry about then :-) And now some tidbits from the many suns debate. ----------------------------------------------- This is going well. I seem to have hammered out an acceptable theory with Joerg. We are still debating a few points, I propose something that seems perfectly reasonable which he dismisses out of hand as 'Wild speculation'. I wish he'd stop being so stolid... :-) How Dara Happans wash themselves: "the pure among us do not deign to contaminate themselves with water but bathe in fragrant oils scented with the perfumes of flowers. We then burn these oils off with a holy flame and a paen of praise to the Emperor Yelm [aka protection 6] leaving behind a sweet smeel and a clean skin" "for the less pure or those who cannot bear the touch of the holy flame without their base nature flinching, a mundane solution is at hand. We take the residue of that august element [ash] and mix it with water. The divine natue of the august residue then commands the motions of the water. When pressed to mortal flesh contaminated with filth, the divine residue commands the waters to take what is foul and impure and depart, leaving that which is clean and pure behind. [This is actually a primitive version of soap BTW]" Other things thrashed out but not detailed here is the nature of the relationship between Genert and Yamsur amongst other things. Cheers --Peter Metcalfe aka Blue Wizard. --------------------- From: pyspas@midge.bath.ac.uk (Paul Snow) Subject: Rune Power Points and Wyters Message-ID:Date: 18 Aug 94 11:20:56 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5751 > > The chance of the effect is POW * 3 for initiates, *4 for acolytes and *5 for > > rune levels. The cost is the normal cost in POW for the spell. However, > > the spell is cast on a one-use basis (non-reusable spells cost double!). > > > Yes, YES, *YES*! I like, very much. This addresses a number of > problems, and negates the need for a Rune Power Pool system, despite > Tim Leask's eloquent (but flawed) arguments to the contrary. (I'll > come back to that.) > I don't agree. Using Loren's MGF guideline consider the following. Three characters/adventurers after long and hard struggles return home and attend (high) holy day ceremonies like good worshippers should. Let us assume that they all have equal POW. Now it is quite possible that say two out of the three will make their roll for spell return and one poor sod doesn't. Why does he deserve this when he has been as faithful to his religion as the other two and most importantly what fun will be be to play this character out adventuring with the others on the next adventure. My players would hate this. > From: watson@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson) > > __________ > David Baur: > > I like the idea of the "communal temple spirit" (A sort of brainless > > temple allied spirit). It does seem to fit better into the flavor of RQ > > then the generic power Vs. number of worshippers idea. > > Also, I think it provides a mechanism for more powerful magic in general. > It seems naively adventurocentric of us to suppose that the be-all-and-end-all > of Gloranthan magic can rest in the hands of individuals. I believe > the most powerful magics are accessed through cooperative ritual (although > I don't really need rules for it 'cos it won't be in the forefront of many > of my games: just understand that it's *out there*). > A lot of potential in wyters I think. Recently someone asked how you found a city or some such. Clearly the establishment of a permanent and protected village and city is marked by the ceremony to create the wyter for the place. Remember the long deabate about tribal vs cult &/or tribal initiation. Clearly a full initiation has two parts to it. The religious initiation is bound by the sacrifice of POW to form a link with the god. The tribal initiation must be sealed by the establishment of a link to the tribal/village wyter which truly marks the individual's share of the responsibilities of joining the community. I think that when a tribe or clan has strong links back to an initial founding figure or myth the communal energy of the wyter can materialize in tribal ceremonies representing the founding element in permanent touch with the current clansmen and through this act the tribe can keep in touch with particular magics or abilities of the clan. Greg has talked about the true hero being the one who brings abilities back from heroquests and gives them to the community so all can benefit. I suppose that we should understand this by seeing that this as the mythically gained ability being stored in the wyter. Comments? PAS --------------------- From: strauss@hopper.itc.virginia.edu (John Strauss) Subject: phil davis Message-ID: <199408180937.FAA13849@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> Date: 18 Aug 94 01:37:40 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5752 >Elves are vegetables so a Dark Troll can get along fine as >a vegetarian and a CA one will be OK as long as someone else >harvests the elves, dryads, pixies and runners for him/her. >Now wouldn't that be a nice wierd set up for the Uz version of >CA. "Don't worry about the elves. The harvester assures me that >he is very quick and they don't feel any pain!" Heh, yeah that is what I had in mind. Although I would make him a very devout and pious CA. He would insist that the harvester use Food Song. :) Brandon sez: >I was lucky enough to play in Phil's game when he came to DC.... >I particularly lamented his departure, as I was just getting >started on a particularly insane and dangerous set of >heroquests... One of the things that I always admired about Phil, besides his sheer unbridled imagination, was his ability to handle any power level, no matter how high or low, and still stress you up to but not quite touching your breaking point. Jotham Swordtongue was a Librarian Hero. He had his own Lankhor Mhy subcult, his own high priest, even had another PC as a worshipper. He rarely cast Truth magic, as he had most of it as inate abilities. He had the command voice and was able to force compliance, even death, on a critical orate. If you wished to lie in his hearing, you had to overcome his POW to do so, and even then he would generally know you were lying. He routinely debated doctrine with Lankhor Mhy, as the two of them could not come to agreement on several points. Phil and I were trying to decide what to put on his Dragon Pass/Nomad Gods counter. But Phil still managed to challenge Jotham to the point of terror and/or confusion, at will, while other people, some at initiate level, were busily playing in the same scenario. I have no doubt that the HQs you mention were just as you say, insane and dangerous. Phil is a scary guy. Somewhere in Sunny Calif, someone is staying up nights worried about the fiendish things Phil is threatening to do to their character. I envy them. John Strauss --------------------- From: watson@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 18 Aug 1994, part 1 Message-ID: <199408181005.LAA14801@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk> Date: 18 Aug 94 12:05:26 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5753 ___ Tim: > On Communal Rune magic and temple spirits etc: OK, so what happens to the >famous Broo Healer of the Rockwoods? I'm sure he knows Resurrection. I'm also >sure he doesn't have a real big temple etc! So, how would he go about getting >the spell cast if it requires a temple spirit? It's no secret that I don't like resurrection; I suggested it as communal magic as a way of inhibiting its proliferation. But if you want it to be a 3pt-personal-Divine-Spell-reusable-by-CAs then you just keep it that way. But anyway, traditional CAs require a temple of some sort to recover their spells (remember the requirement of 7x7x2 worshippers mentioned in KOS?: that sounds like a 98pt wyter to me). I assume the Rockwoods healer either visits a temple on a fairly regular basis, or he cheats in some non-standard way. >Healers tend to congregate on their temples at Holy Days for 2 reasons: >a) to boost the number of initiates there worshipping; and >b) to pray for their own Rune spells back again at a decent size temple. c) to cast the Temple Wyter's spell(s)? 1 resurrect per year between 100 CAs sounds about right to me... ___ CW. --------------------- From: pearton@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za (Dave Pearton) Subject: What does the lozenge rest on? Message-ID: Date: 18 Aug 94 14:50:01 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5754 Hi, I'm at work so I don't have access to my sources, but I don't believe that this question is answered. What does the lozenge rest on? The current cosmology as far as I can see is: Upper Heaven Sky Dome Middle Air Earth/Ocean Hells/Food Place (Yelimc and Troll) But what are the upper and lower bounds of this? Is there a roof to the upper heavens and a lower bound to the hells? There would have to be if chaos enters "from outside". So what does the Gloranthan cosmos rest on (has visions of giant turtles, etc...) or does it simply float in a formless void of chaos? If so, just how is the cosmos bounded? If chaos entered in the North by lifting up the sky dome then it would imply that the sky dome is the outer bound, but the upper heavens where the star captains are and Dayzatar has retreated to appears to be above the sky dome so that can't be the case. Also if all the waters rushed to fill the gaping hole in the cosmos created by the destruction of the spike where is the water going - (out of the cosmos?) and if so is will the water ever going to run out completely? Ah well, just my fevered imagination working overtime once more.... Cheers, Yak -- *********************************************************************** Dave Pearton * ....As I was saying before I Biochemistry Dept. * was so rudely interrupted University of Natal * by one of my multiple Pietermaritzburg * personalities.... * pearton@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za * Naked Lunch (W.S. Burroughs) ************************************************************************ --------------------- From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au Subject: Sanctify Message-ID: <01HG2HCF4T7S98FQFK@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> Date: 19 Aug 94 07:43:36 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5755 G'day Everyone, ________ Sanctify Does this spell have a duration (eg. the standard 15 minutes?) I don't think so from the description. In any case, here's how I play it: Sanctify lasts indefinitely, just like Warding. While it remains in effect, the priest who cast it can't pray to get the spell back. To Sanctify an area, the priest performs a special ritual (and succeeds in a Ceremony roll). Trying to Sanctify an area elementally or theologically opposed to one's god might be difficult, eg. an Orlanth Priest trying to Sanctify an area deep in a cave might have a prohibitive penalty on his Ceremony roll. However, Sanctifying a theologically appropriate spot (eg. a mountaintop in the rain) might be easier: add to the Ceremony roll. You can get your spells back at a temple because the temple has been Sanctified. Often, the temple was first Sanctified way back when the founder built it, and that original Sanctify spell is still in effect. This is generally considered a Good and Holy Thing, and might even attract some sort of game benefit (faster regaining of divine spells, perhaps?). Priests generally don't cast their Sanctify spells just anywhere, because doing so can attract spirits and other bad stuff from enemy cults (temples have defenses to ward off these). A Sanctify spell can be "turned off", by performing the appropriate ritual of deconsecration. In the case the priest can pray to get his use of Sanctify back. A Sanctify spell can also be eliminated by cult enemies *defiling* the Sanctified area, in which case the priest who cast it loses the spell and must sacrifice more POW to learn it again. (He also probably gets a bollocking from his High Priest, for leaving a holy place vulnerable). _________________________________ Of Interest Mainly to Antipodeans Tales #12 As noted by David Gadbois on the Daily yesterday, the US edition of Tales is not due out for a few more weeks yet; Aussies can expect their copies a week or so after that. Jar Eel Assassin T-shirts (*cool*) These are available from me, at $30 each (includes post). I'm getting in a limited quantity, so order now unless you want to wait for the next shipment. Two SIZ - L and standard gamer XL. RQ Con Compendium book - Also getting in limited quantities. Price is likely to be $20 (still working out mailing costs, etc.) - will add or debit your account if the price varies. Order now to avoid disappointment! RQ Con Program Books, Lunar Coins - still got a few left of these: order now before they disappear forever! Back issues: still got a couple of issue #10's (Sea Special), a few more of the issue #5 reprints (Humakt) and a number of issue #11's. Available for $6.50 + $1.50 postage each. _____________________________________________________ Still Of Interest Mainly to Antipodeans: Lapsed Subbers I have no idea if any of you are on e-mail or not, but in any case, the following Aussies have let their sub lapse (if you know 'em and they're not on the Daily, please pass it on!). As Tales is not available in shops in Australia, you must be a subber to guarantee getting "The Times Literary Supplement of RQ", as Ken Rolston recently described the zine... Stephen D Faust (Melbourne, Vic) Brad Martin (Willeton, WA) Michael Pianta (Bendigo, Vic) Sean Foster (Perth WA) Dirk Schorlitz (Perth WA) Gary Danaford (Armadale, WA) Shaun (Mitcham, Vic) Hugh McVicker (Northcote, Vic) John Coleman (Pascoe Vale, Vic) Darius West (Williamstown, Vic) Paul McRandle (Braddon ACT) That's all for now! Cheers MOB --------------------- From: Bob.Luckin@tiuk.ti.com Subject: Genert, cartoon Glorantha Message-ID: <9408181157.AA27525@ibrox.tiuk.ti.com> Date: 18 Aug 94 11:57:22 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5756 Hi from Bob Luckin ! We have the hyenas - we can rebuild him ======================================= Sandy (X-RQ-ID: 5743) replied to a private mail I sent about Genert :- >>I don't recall ever seeing/hearing the reason that Genert could be >>reconstructed from hyena skins. > In NOMAD GODS, it is explained that Hyena (the spirit entity) >was called upon by Genert to eat his corpse so it wouldn't fall into >the hands of Chaos. That's why I didn't remember it... I'll have to dig out my copy of NG and re-examine the rulebook. Sandy also said :- >My statement, to wit: "don't forget WHY Genert had Hyena eat him. >I see no reason to suppose that his original reasoning isn't still >valid, in which case the resurrection of Genert could lead to >Genert's death and the takeover of a chaotic land-god." > Is based on the suggestion that the entities that Genert >feared are still around waiting for him. But that doesn't answer my other question - if Genert doesn't want to be reconstructed, why are Issaries/Desert Trackers cultists so keen to do so ? Do they believe the danger from Chaos no longer exists ? Are they not aware of the danger in the first place ? Or is there some darker motive behind their wanting to rebuild Genert ? (In my original email to Sandy I wondered if this aspect of Issaries had not been introduced by the God Learners for some (nefarious) reason.) Or is this explained in CoP and I've simply forgotten it ? Cartoon Glorantha ================= We know some people have a hard time with ducks, and now some don't like the idea of Bullwinkle hsunchen. As Loren recently pointed out, do what is fun for you / your players. If they like the humorous species, include them, and if they don't, don't. It's *your* Glorantha you're playing in. :-) This led me to speculate (just for fun, you understand) on what other cartoon analogues you could introduce into Gloranthan culture. How about : Shadow-cats based on Tom / Mr. Jinx / Snagglepuss Rathori based on Yogi Bear - is Harrek a pirate in order to steal picnic baskets ? Tuskers based on Porky Pig And just think how much fun you could have when your PC's meet a group of Wile E. Coyote hsunchen ! And my favourite - is the Red Emperor really like Yosemite Sam ? No doubt you can come up with your own suggestions... Cheers, Bob -- Bob Luckin voly@tiuk.ti.com "Able was I ere I saw Corflu"