Bell Digest v940823p1

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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 23 Aug 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


From: (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Against the Flood?
Date: 22 Aug 94 08:03:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5806

Devin Cutler in X-RQ-ID: 5786

> Without wanting to insult those who thought the Anaxial the Sailor myth
> (GRoY) was brilliant stuff, does anyone else find this blatant ripoff of
> Terran flood myths to be a bit cheesy?

Well, you could as blatantly rip of the earthquake myth, the volcano myth, 
or the comet strike myth. Any more suggestions for cataclysms?

However, apart from earthquake, the alternatives to the flood would 
leave lasting remnants, even through the subsequent glacial.

> Why, other than the fact that it is a mythic archetype on Earth, does
> Glorantha need such a derivative myth? I certainly agree that a 'cleansing"
> myth has a place in any culture or world, but why did Greg need to be so
> obviosuly Noahesque with it all? I might have preferred something a bit more
> Sun-like (like perhaps volcanoes and a pall of ash from Lodril.

What they do is to release Oslira from the bondage Murharzarm had 
forced upon her. The waters still flowed upwards when the flood appeared, 
so Oslira just continued what she had started with.

> In any case, why would the Sky Gods choose rain as a way of cleansing. Isn't
> rain a vehicle of the rebel gods?

Not exactly. In fact, I'm sceptical about the rain bit myself. When 
the flood caused the Oslir to change from River to Sea, the waters 
still moved uphill, including any (hypothetical) rain - where to should 
rainfall drain?

If my theory about the release of Heler (out of Manarlavus' Dome aka 
Aroka) is correct, this myth occurred quite a while after the waters 
changed their direction of flow. I doubt there was much rain before 
Orlanth freed Heler - I mean, how would the water have entered air in 
the first place? The water powers which might have done so invaded 
heaven instead and turned the sky from yellow to blue.

--  Joerg Baumgartner


From: (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: The Gloranthan water cycle
Date: 22 Aug 94 08:03:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5807

Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 5783

> 	The gap created by the spike 
> [...] was finally filled by the oceans, under the  
> ministrations of Magasta, and now the water is simply recycling -- it  
> pours through the hole down into Hell, where it enters the Styx from  
> which it flows back up and around again, entering the world either  
> from the northwest or the southeast. No one knows how long the cycle  
> takes -- it may be centuries before the same batch of water comes  
> round again. 

There is some evidence that the cycle takes about a century. 
Umaliath, the largest of the firebergs and effectivela a large 
patch of burning water, took almost 100 years from its disappearance 
around 725 (it broke off Tanian's sea of fire around 720) to 819 
when it was reported back (probably west of Tanian's sea). The 
exact cycle may be subject to lesser currents, but the general outline 
is there.

--  Joerg Baumgartner


From: (Myles Corcoran)
Subject: Questions about RunePower
Message-ID: <9408221133.AA24583@Sun.COM>
Date: 22 Aug 94 13:32:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5809

Hello All,
	I have been following the discussions here about the possible 
interpretations of David Cheng's RunePower idea and have a few questions 
that may find answers among you lot.

	Firstly I agree with Henk on the matter of limiting the 
variety of spells available to any one worshpper.  I invisage the gaining 
of a new runespell as something like a micro-quest or ceremonial 
reenactment of some aspect of the particular god's life.  Does anyone 
have any interesting possiblities for such ceremonies/quests?  We know some 
of the details of Orlabth's gaining the four magical weapons.  Perhaps these 
events could form the basis of a reenactment for a worshipper attempting 
to gain a new spell.

	Secondly, I wonder how people limit the stacking of rune-points 
for those characters with more than a handful of points of RunePower and 
access to stackable spells like Shield or Lightning.  If as a priest you 
have a minimum of ten points of RunePower, you can whip off a pretty 
damn powerful Shield spell.  I realise full well that this behaviour is 
somewhat risky (in that it leaves you with no remaining RunePower to 
work with) and unrealistic (in that many priest will be working with less 
than their maximum RunePower due to cult duties and rightly so) but I 
can see it causing a problem in certain situations.  Personally I limit 
the use of spells by using a Pendragon-like personality trait system but 
I'd like to see some different takes on the idea. 


Myles Corcoran				Tel +353-1-6621333
School of Cosmic Physics,		Fax +353-1-6621477
Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies,	email
5 Merrion Square,
Dublin 2,


Subject: Genert, moon, cartoon
Message-ID: <>
Date: 22 Aug 94 11:42:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5810

Hi from Bob Luckin !

Sandy says (X-RQ-ID: 5783) :

> his sweetie, and maybe his Runes will change. You suggest that maybe
> this aspect of Issaries was introduced by the God Learners -- I
> suggest that more likely is that this task was RESTRICTED to a single
> subcult of Issaries by the God Learners, who found it an irksome
> chore -- I assume that before the Second Age, all Issaries cultists
> were burdened with this job.

This is a possibility I hadn't thought of.  I like it; thanks for the
suggestion !

Moon "over" Pavis
David Dunham (X-RQ-ID: 5792) says :-

> It was pointed out to me that my use of a coyote in my first Ralios session
> (the adulthood mini-heroquest) wasn't appropriate for Glorantha. I'd wanted
> something that was identifiable as Trickster without too much difficulty.
> We know there are Gloranthan dogs, wolves, and hyenas. Are there coyotes?
> Raccoons are another American mammal that's in Glorantha.

How about foxes ?  I think they are often mythically associated with stealing,
tricks, evil and the like.   Or are you looking for a creature which is
unusual to other parts of Glorantha (I remember the HQ edition of ToTReM had
a fox-based heoquest in it from - I think - the Orlanthi culture) ?

> Apparently there's some dispute as to whether the Red Moon is visible from
> Pavis. I never thought this was in doubt, but I got a letter from someone
> who claims it can't be seen from Pavis.

Tell them to look at the cover of Strangers in Prax.  There are the Coders
disembarking into Pavis, and above the moonboat is a small red billiard ball
aka the Red Moon.  Of course, this could just be artistic license...

Andrew Raphael points out (X-RQ-ID: 5787) :-

>>*   Is the Red Emperor really like Yosemite Sam ?

> No, Sam is far too hairy to be the Red Emperor.  The princess in
> MOB's Lunar Coders, from Strangers in Prax, suggest that the Red
> Emperor is hairless.  He is, therefore, Elmer Fudd.

This depends on whether you view House Raibanth's hairlessness to indicate
that the Red Emperor himself is hairless, or is due to some other influence
arising from his court.  But I like the reasoning...  No doubt MOB or Nick
can confirm whether Ol' Red Eyes is hairless or not.

Now if the Emperor is Elmer Fudd, then who is Yosemite Sam ?  Fazzur
Wideread perhaps ?  Surely with all that red hair he has to be Lunar - or
does he (why does the name Sheng Seleris come unbidden into my mind) ?

> I've often wondered if strolling players in Kralorela present morality plays
> based on the life of the belt-buckle salesman who became Godunya, the Dragon
> Emperor.  Surely he was married, with children?

Ah, Godunya Bundy...  Well, I was thinking along the lines of Peg "Griselda"
Bundy and Al "Wolfhead" Bundy.  (Yes I know this is stretching the analogy a
bit since Griselda and Wolfhead are related and don't have kids...)  For
Godunya I'd have suggested Chou En Ginsberg from the Round the Horne radio
show in the UK, but I'm not sure how many readers would have come across him.

Cheers, Bob
Bob Luckin      "Able was I ere I saw Corflu"


Subject: Switches and such.
Message-ID: <>
Date: 22 Aug 94 12:05:51 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5811

Peter Metcalfe Says :

>As for Jonas's last question, I believe on information contained in Digest
>vol8, that the runes are actually god learner constructs invented by the evil
>fools themselves as shorthand to explain what they saw using the Runequest

I asked whether the Runes are ubiquitous in Glorantha at the lore auction.
Gregs answer was that yes, they are found all over Glorantha and are generaly
identifiable regardless of culture. There are variations too, such as the
fire/sky rune being represented as an eye in some cultures (The eye of the
cosmic dragon?). I am sure that the God Learners attempted to systematise
and categorise runes and impose a unified order, but the runes deffinitely
predate them and are found in cultures never manipulated by them.

Sandy Says :

>David Cake:
>>But fear not, the Great David Switch can still go ahead - I believe
>>the appropriate Davids are Hall and Gadbois, both distribute TOTRM,  
>>and Mr Gadbois is the American resident, so the Great David Switch  
>>should have no problem in making him the editor as well.
>        A brilliant solution. David Cake should be commended for his  
>selfless contribution to this plan, especially as he himself will  
>probably prove to be one of the infamous False Davids, with no basis  
>in reality, and hence his functions may be completely subsumed by one  
>of the other Davids. 

If David Cake is a 'False David' and we start 'worshiping' him (writing
letters, buying him beer, etc) Eventualy he might demonstrate effective
publishing powers and spontaneously start his own Zine!

Bob Luckin  writes:

>This led me to speculate on what other cartoon analogues you could introduce
>into Gloranthan culture.

>*   Is the Red Emperor really like Yosemite Sam ?

Synchronicity strikes again! I was running an RQ game a few months ago, when I
saw a set of Toon rules during a break. It was shortly after Convulsion and
we were discussing heroquest rules when Bam! it hit me.....

	Toon Quest - The Quest for Uleria's Kiss.
                  At a con near you Soon!

Starring :  Betty Boo as the High Priestess of Uleria.
            Elmer Fudd (With his Sword and Magic Helmet).
            Taz as the Troll.
            And a cast of Dozens.

It Must Be Done!

Simon Hibbs


From: (Dave Cordes)
Subject: The Great David Switch ???
Message-ID: <9408221456.AA15031@Sun.COM>
Date: 21 Aug 94 23:59:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5812

CL QM-SMTP gw                 The Great David Switch ???
David Cake in  X-RQ-ID: 5771:     "But fear not, the Great David Switch can
still go ahead..."

Why are you settling with just a David Switch.  In the true spirit of Primal
Chaos, Thed, etc you could have a Great David Scramble. 

Just take Davids: Cake, Gadbois, Hall, Dunham, Cheng, Baur, Cordes, Pearton,
DeKruger(hasn't contributed yet, but I know he reads the Dailys).  And any
others I may have inadvertently missed.  Shuffle them all up and randomly
draw one each time you need a David.

Hey, I don't know all the rules yet, but would this make a good Trollball


From: (Kevin Rose)
Subject: Sever Spirit
Date: 22 Aug 94 07:16:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5813

Sever Spirit and Resurection

	Some in the last few days made the suggestion that a
non-resurectable death spell would be twice as expensive as a normal sever
spirit.  I seem to remember being told by someone at Chaosium (Cannot
remeber who, but it was probably Sandy, Charlie or Greg) that someone
killed by a Sever Spirit was just dead.  They were killed by the
manifestation of the death rune and Resurection was not an option, as the
spell directly conveyed their spirit to the final destination, the details
on which I'm a little hazy.
	I think it might have been a rapid induction ceremony into Humakts 
ehnin ehjar (Which I'm sure I've mispelled a lot), but it might have just 
been an express trip to the lands of the permanently dead.

	Anyone have any information on whether a sever spirit is suposed 
to be resurectable?

Kevin Rose



Subject: Issaries, Etyries, Garzeen
Message-ID: <>
Date: 22 Aug 94 19:03:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5814

     According to Cults of Prax page 59, Etyries WAS a daughter of Issaries
who "After a thousand years she grew tired of tending pots and counting
stones and decided to travel a great distance to hear the words of a young
goddess of the far north."  "The goddess was the Red Goddess, still on earth
and in mortal form.  The daughter of Issaries learned that she could use her
great innate powers and still enjoy other pursuits.  The Red Goddess taught
Etyries that she was the guide upon the threads of the Lunar pantheon."
    This should clear up whether or not she is a daughter of Issaries.

    Also CoP, p. 111, states "Issaries establishes the cults of his four
sons." And CoP, p. 59, states "Since that time all of the subcults have
enjoyed seperate group worship."

        IMO, Etyries was one of the four subcults established by Issaries at
the dawn of time ( four sons was a typo since most gods were male at the time
of the CoP write-up).  Also, Etyries is and was worshipped as a seperate
subcult since the dawn of time.  Although Etyries corresponded to females as
the Garzeen counterpart, i.e. counting stones and tending pots for the home
of a merchant.  This, IMO, would account for the change in the Spell Tading
spell for Etyries (Exchange spells).  Etyries took a somewhat subservient
role (until her lunar conversion), thus she could only trade spirit magic not
rune/divine magic.  Now Etyries has "subplanted" the Garzeen worship where
the Lunar Empire holds sway,  though Garzeen would still be worshipped in
small numbers.

         In my campaign, I view all four of the subcults as seperate
entities, to join both Garzeen and Etyries (for example) one would have to
give two points of pow. Belonging to morethan one subcult IS RARE, especially
since they are for different personality types.  Though a Goldentongue might
"retire" and join the Garzeen subcult (maybe Gringle would fall into this
category).  Although all worship Issaries.  
      Depending on the temple in question,  shrines would be available to all
the subcults.  Of course in most of Dragon Pass, Etyries shrines are not
found, but in the Lunar empire Garzeen shrines would be rare.  For example,
the Pavis temple would have active shrines to a all four subcults, due to the
cultural make-up of the city and surrounding areas.  Etyries for the Lunars,
 Harst for the Praxian nomads,  Garzeen for the non-lunars, and of course
Goldentongue for all those wandering merchants.

       On to another point, I would like to throw a question into the arena
for debate.   In all available sources to me (i.e. RQ2, Trollpack, CoP, CoT,
 original rulebook, and RQ3 GoG, Trollpack, Trollgods, etc.)       Orlanth is
given the spell of Darkwalk (which confers invisibilty AND silence), which
all sources state he stole from Kyger Litor.  Although Kyger Litor has no
such spell, Argan Argar does.  How does one account for this????  Also, in
RQ3  the only god which confers an invisibilty-type spell is Annilla ( the
spell is Conceal).
       Any, explanations would be helpful.

Good Gaming,

Keith E. Smith        


From: (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Inside the Outside.
Message-ID: <>
Date: 22 Aug 94 20:30:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5815

Dave Pearton wonders, lonely, as a cloud:
> But what are the upper and lower bounds of this?  Is there a roof to the
> upper heavens and a lower bound to the hells?  There would have to be if
> chaos enters "from outside".  So what does the Gloranthan cosmos rest on[?]

I contacted some of my Reliable Sources on this question, and got a range
of answers which I'm sure you'll be able to see are easily unifiable into
a God Learner Friendly, Greg-proof, One True Answer:

"Chaos!  And it's trying to get in, Right Now!!  Those Lunars are helping
it, too, I tell you, whatever they say!  Soon they'll dig up the Block,
and then--  Eh, excuse me, I think that's a patrol..."
  --  Angard Angry Arms, Malani Stormcarl, Occuppied Sartar.

"The unending glory and splendour of the pure, unsullied Aether.  I have
spoken with the Holy One, and He would have told me if it were otherwise."
  --  Dhormedtha the Luminant, Dayzatar Stylite, Yuthuppa.

"Outside the world which we see, which is the body of the Great Ancestral
Dragon of the Earth, is the Sky, and the Void, and the One, all part of the
Celestial Dragon, which is all that can exist.  Beyond his August and Noble
Self is Ouroboros, that exists, and that which does not."
  --  Subexarch Ki Li Si Whispered To By Dragons, Laonan Tao, Puchai.

"We cannot know what is Outside, because we do not fully know the Inside.
Each of us is like a small child, never having gone outside our mother's
home, and ill-equipped to understand any of the outside world in any case.
When the Goddess has healed the world, it will be our Initiation into the
greater universe, and each of us will be able to go abroad into it like
young gods at the Creation.  I cannot describe this world to you, but I
know in my heart that it will be new, and it will be wonderful."
  --  Carimus White Soul, Priest of the Seventh Moon, Jillaro.

"Your question is meaningless.  The World is that which is.  That which is
not the World, is not.  The primative mind reels at the starkness of
non-existance, hence their manifold comforting lies and self delusions."
  --  Guyholme the Reasoner, Reader in Theoretical Cosmology, Sog City

"Look at the map in Codex #2, lentil-brain!"
  --  Name and address withheld, God Learner Studies Department, Nochet
      College of Further Education.

> Also if all the waters rushed to fill the gaping hole in the cosmos
> created by the destruction of the spike where is the water going - (out of
> the cosmos?) and if so is will the water ever going to run out completely?

That's an easy one, the waters go down into Hell, and then back up the
outer oceans, and then up the sky dome, to fall back as rain.  I imagine
there's very general agreement about this, so I won't do the Funny
Gloranthan Voices bit again. ;-)



From: (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Divine Magic, mainly
Message-ID: <>
Date: 22 Aug 94 23:40:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5816

Klaus O K:
> (Alex Ferguson) writes:
> >Last I heard, this idea, that Bless Crops is De Rigeur was being touted
> >by Joerg, as a Forcing Argument for _his_ pet theories, about how everyone
> >in sight should be a pantheon initiate and get a reusable Bless Crops.

> In Sun County farmers are not tempted to move the stones marking the
> borders of their fields (to steal a bit of land from their neighbours),
> since that would dispell their Bless Crops spells. This must mean that
> a very large number of fields, probably all, are blessed. It also means
> that Yelmalion society is not very trusting of the honesty of farmers.

I forget exactly what Sun County says about this, but one could at least
argue that it's a special case, being in a woefully unfertile area, and more
to the point, doubtless prone to otherwise-disasterous droughts.

> 	2) (Someone else) I would never have initiates roll to see whether 
> 	they regained a point of divine magic if they attended their cults 
> 	high holy day ceremony.  It entails entirely unnecessary dice rolling 
> 	in a completely inappropriate area.  The ONLY person who should roll 
> 	is the officiating Priest or Acolyte and if he was not a PC I would 
> 	determine the result NON-randomly.

This seems to suggest that an individual worshipper has nothing to do with
the success, either collective or individual, or hir worship.  I disagree
with this, though I'm sure that for a Mere Initiate, the effects of the
participating rune levels would doubtless dominate.  At the moment, the
best I could come up with would be something vaguely like the Pendragon
Battle system.  Though with fewer missing table-explanations.

> 	4) (Same person) worried about the leathality of Humakti un this system.

Not I, if I'm the person being cited in 3).  Humakti Lethality <-- Good thing.

> 	a) I WOULD allow Humakti to DI for someone's DEATH under the old rules.

Go directly to the Maw of Chaos, do not pass Compromise, do not collect 200
Death Fame.  ;-)  Greggamus tuem maxima, greggamus tuem maxima...

> Alex Ferguson ignores his ready access to source material in X-RQ-ID: 5768

Ready, schmeady.  It was 20km away, and still is, by train-strike-ridden cycle-
only transport.  Please stand by.

> > For
> > example, I tend to imagine that the Sun Burn wasn't carried out by someone
> > going round Sun Spearing every tree in the forest individually from 100 paces
> > away.  (Mutatis mutandis, "Moon Burn", at least if MOB's to be believed.)

> Sun Burn in Erigia, Moon Burn at Rist. And damn right they were, after the 
> Aldryami landgrabbing ventures of the late 560s... (Old grudges die hard 
> in Glorantha)

What I was referring to is whether there's a "Moon Spear" spell exactly
analogous to Sun Spear.  I gather MOB reckons so.  BTW, the less-corny-
sounding name Sky Burn is used, so I hereby retcon the above to read