Bell Digest v940825p1

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To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 25 Aug 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


From: (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Of Moons and Men...
Message-ID: <>
Date: 25 Aug 94 10:00:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5845

An Important Message from the Blue Wizard

I have discovered for the second day in a row that one creature whose initials
are N.B. has been spreading evil slanders to the effect that I hold sympathies
with the learned fools called the God Learners.  This is not so.  I have
further discovered that this Nick Brooke is one of the infamous 'Knows Nothing'
gang.  These are as you all know, a group of notorious philosophical vagabonds
who hang around places of learning and deny any unity in the world whatsoever. 
It is further well known that the 'Knows Nothing' gangs are nothing but a mask
for the cabal of Silver Dwarves anxious to preserve their secrets from the
manifest destiny of the human race.

Already they have destroyed what little is known of the Falagian Diamonds. 
What other infamy will they attempt next?  I urge all of you that meet a member
of the 'Knows Nothing' gang to stone him immediately.

Now to the offending article at hand which outraged Nick Brooke so because he
knew it was the truth and cannot bear having the truth made public.  As you all
know it for this crime, that Malkion condemned Zrethus and expelled him from

>>This of course is Entenkos who according to Mr P. in the GOds Wall at
>>position II-1.  In a commentary he cites her as Goddess of Calm, Lady of the
>>Summer AIr, Mother of Moons and Queen of the Air.  As is obvious to people 
>>with a fraction of god learnerism, this is in fact Molanni Calm Air.

He writes

>once again the bollocksy nature of God Learnerism is displayed>

As exemplified he shows his ignorance of academic debate.  We all know that it
is custom to refrain from personal attacks as they merely cloud the arguements
at hand.  Of course this simpleton is incapable of understanding this as it is
well know he has acquired the unfortunate habit of Tapping his own mind for
magical power when under Stress.

>Entekos has four titles; for no good reason, the Blue Wizard promotes "Calm
>Air" above "Mother of Moons",

I did not promote Calm Air over Mother of Moons.  Entekos has three titles
relating to her command of the aerial forces in Dara Happa.  The Mother of
Moons is the only other one.  Three is bigger than one (a fact all but perhaps
Nick know).  Thus the Dara Happans worshipped her primarily for her aerial 
abilities and thus they themselves promoted Air above Mother of Moons.

>...then uses the spurious identity he has created ('Entekos IS Molanni')...

I see nothing wrong with the identification that I have made.  Molanni is known
as a traitor among the Storm Gods of the Orlanthi whom the Dara Happans hate. 
Her chief crime apparently was to be still air hence the curse of Molanni Calm
Air.  This as we all know is one of the titles of Entekos. We know from our 
anonymous commentator that Entekos was not her original name.  So it fits and
is better than anything Nick 'Knows Nothing' Brooke could come up with.

> reduce her interesting powers.

I have not reduced any powers.  Nick in his feverished attempt to blacken my
reputation resorts to inventing imaginary crimes.  I merely denied that she was
the mother of Annilla, an identification to which Nick should have denied in
the first place since Annilha on the Gods Wall is not in any way connected with
Moons.  Thus the falsity of his position is exposed for the feeble sophistry it

>Let's see who has the last laugh.

Alas for Nick.  I grieve for him.  He as a member of the 'Knows Nothing' is
mortal having thrown away the key to Solace.  I keeping to the path of Solace
am immortal and so that when he dies, I will still be alive and capable of
laughter.  Thus it is obvious to all but the dimmest mind (for I fear Nick does
not comprehend) that I will have the last laugh.

>Pletonius knew of Molanni.

He did not know of her history before she became Entekos except to list her as
one of the marriage contestants of Yelm.  This only exposes the shallowness of
his research.  As an example, it is clear to anybody that Gods Wall II-1 is not
Entekos but Dendara because of the Rune above her head and the fact of her four
daughters following in II-2, II-3, II-4 and II-5.  These illustrate a certain 
age of her life: Ariria, the woman not yet married;  Naveria, the woman who is 
married in order to procreate; Lesilla; the mother and Koveria the Grandmother.

>And, remind me again of the difference between (sequential) time and
>(non-sequential) Godtime, Big Blue.

Nick here shows himself relying too much on the words of one former belt buckle
salesman.  As is plain to all but Nick, there is no difference.  Godtime is
just as sequential as the age in which we live.  I challenge him to produce one
example where it was otherwise.

On this note, I retire

The Blue Wizard

--Peter Metcalfe


From: (Colin Watson)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 24 Aug 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <>
Date: 24 Aug 94 12:47:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5846

>	"Ahead you see an ominous fort, manned by newtlings."
>	"Okay, I cast Vision and explore the entire layout before our  
>assault. Then we cast Concealment and sneak over the walls and get  
>into the treasure room."
>	*groan*
>	Obviously there's ways around these spells, but it's a pain  
>to have to do it. 

Coincidentally, only last week my sorceress used Project Sight for similar ends.
No "treasure room", only prisoners; no newtlings only Chaos Beasties, but
other than that it was the same.
The GM, much to his credit, didn't care in the slightest when we reconned the
place with Project Sight. It turned a potential dungeon-hack into an
SAS-style surgical strike, in many ways improving the game and increasing
the enjoyment of all concerned. It certainly avoided a lot of needless
carnage (well, we hope so, we're not out of it yet...).

I don't think these covert spells have all the scenario-knackering potential
that some folks credit them with. In my experience something inevitably goes
wrong even with the most foolproof plans.


From: (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Depraved cover art
Message-ID: <>
Date: 24 Aug 94 03:58:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5847

 "it was us who brought you ...the depraved cover of issue #8 (expurgated for 
our prudish American readers)."
I thought I saw a TOTRM circulating at RQ-Con with a cover I did not remember 
(and bloody well would have remembered had I seen it). No more censorship! I 
demand that all depraved Megacorp products be distributed uncut in North 
America! (Though you may have to mail it in plain brown wrappers to get it past 
Canada customs.)


From: (Chris Cooke)
Subject: Sartar Guidebook
Message-ID: <9408241337.AA06681@Sun.COM>
Date: 24 Aug 94 13:40:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5848

I saw mention of a Sartar Guidbook.  Is it possible to get a copy?

                />        Chris Cooke 


From: (Chris Wehman)
Subject: Jarst Daro
Message-ID: <>
Date: 24 Aug 94 06:04:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5849

I will be playing Jarst Daro(an NPC) in the Garhound contest(From RoC) in
about a week and I had heard that someone had posted an excellent
unofficial write-up of ogres, i.e. physiology, habits, society.  I was
wondering if someone could email me that in the next few days at my email
address as it appears above.

Jarst Daro
"I eat Moose hunschen"


From: (S.Phillips)
Subject: Moose
Message-ID: <>
Date: 24 Aug 94 16:16:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5850

>From: (Scott Haney)
>& > 	I DEMAND Moose Hsunchen in my campaign. I just don't want 'em  
>hello!  I am Baron von Moosehsunchen, and I have just had the most
>amazing adventure.....

-- Vamoose, Moose!

Not David but David.


Subject: Heavy Shadow
Message-ID: <>
Date: 24 Aug 94 16:48:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5852

I recently came across a theory originating from ancient Greece (it amy have
been attributed to Plato, I can't recall) concerning the behaviour of elements
which seems to fit quite well into the Gloranthan cosmology.
	Basically, elements (Air,Earth,Fire,Water in the greek version. Add
Darkness for Glorantha) seek out their natural position in the cosmos, so if
you drop a stone, it will fall to the ground because it is seeking Earth.
Bubbles rise in water because Air lies above Water and the bubbles are
attempting to reach Air, heat rises because it is trying to reach Sky and so
on. There are a few seeming contradictions - Earth lies on top of Water, so why
do rocks sink? The answer to this is that the Earth cube is mostly submerged,
so rocks and the like are merely heading for an equilibrium point. If dropped
near Magasta's pool they would not sink all the way down to Hell (theoretically
of course. They would probably be swept along by the current. 

	If these observations were taken as true, a couple of other points
arise - 
	Firstly if one could harness heat or light, one could ascend to the
Sky. I can easily see someone like Leonardo the Scientist of God Forgot
constructing a hot air balloon on these principles. Of course with the ballon
it is Air plus Heat that is trapped, and the Heat can somehow escape unless
	Secondly, if Heat (and Light) rises, then Darkness must sink. This
is not too unlikely since we talk of "nightfall", shadows "falling" across
something and so on. The fact that we do not feel them is because of their
ephemerality, but again I can see an interesting demonstartion where on takes a
balance with equal weights in both pans, then casts a shadow onto one side and
lo and behold! It sinks (very slightly). One offshoot of Darkness having weight
would be that a shadow cast on the floor would be darker than one cast upwards.
Perhaps one cast on a wall would be darker at the bottom where all the "shadons"
have sunk.

	A couple more problems. If Shadow sinks, then Cold should do too, so
why does ice float? Also what about Moon? Moon seems to possess
both solid and ephemeral properties, eg moonrock is solid, but moonlight that
the moonboats ride on, is not. I would see any Moon related substance as having
a bouyant property, after all Moon is attempting to take over from Air, so
moonrocks would hover off the ground (perhaps higher the larger they are). This
also explains how moonlight supports the moonboats.

	On a seperate point, where do gems come from? We all know about metal
and crystals, but what about ordinary non-magical precious stones? I would
assume Asrelia has something to do with it, but what? Is she responsible for
them or merely custodian? A couple of suggestions off the top of my head - the
original gems were made by various Husband-Protectors to give to Ernalda (hence
the different types made by different gods) and they somehow ended up in
Asrelia's possession. Either Ernalda got bored (remember Venus in Baron
Munchausen?) or Asrelia intercepted them before they got to her. Or perhaps
they are some sort of Earth Spirit. Or maybe the Mostali made them (how Asrelia
got them if that is the case I don't know). Or perhaps different gems have
different origins.

 Any suggestions on this would be welcome. 



From: (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 24 Aug 1994
Message-ID: <>
Date: 24 Aug 94 05:18:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5853

Simon Hibbs:
>The Veldang are akin to the Vadeli, I believe. 

	IF the Veldang are any kin to the Vadeli, this is not evident  
in their myths or history. Nor is it a fact known to either Veldgang  
or Vadeli. The Veldang have a full and complex mythology none of  
which bears the slightest resemblance to the Vadeli's equally complex  

	The only resemblances I can think of are (A) the Godtime  
Veldang appear to have been Not Particularly Nice and (B) the Veldang  
have blue skin as does one (extinct) caste of the Vadeli. 

	IF the Veldang are ever proven to be the secret blue caste of  
the Vadeli, I suspect this will one of those miraculous  
after-the-fact Heroquest "discoveries". 

NOTE: Baron von Moosehsunchen may have to play a central part in an  
upcoming adventure in my campaign. 


Subject: Kingdoms of Ducks
Message-ID: <>
Date: 24 Aug 94 17:43:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5854

        I just saw the thread on Ducks place in the great schema and had a 
     Sandy and gang said:
     >>> I would never have an entire Duck Kingdom in a major important  
     >>>place in my campaign. 
     >>This seems to imply that Duck Valley has just been Sandied Down.   
     >>After all, the Ducks are a Sartarite tribe, therefore they have a  
     >>King, therefore it's a Kingdom. 
     >Eat me. You know what I meant. 
     Why would you be loathe to put in a major Duck group?  It would be a 
     big hit with a younger gaming crowd.  Duck bandits attacks have 
     provided much humorous motivation to parties of mine in the past.
     In curiosity,


Subject: Moose, Elk and Deer
Message-ID: <>
Date: 24 Aug 94 17:49:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5855

     Forgive me if this has already been addressed:
     >From: (ian i. gorlick) Subject: Moose
     >Message-ID: <> 
     >> in X-RQ-ID: 5773
     >>According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word moose is taken 
     >from one of the languages of the native americans, most likely 
     >Narragansett or Abenaki. 
     Moose and Elk are quite different in appearance.  I'm not sure on the 
     biological genus differences, but you cannot mistake a moose for an 
     elk when you see them (unless you are over 100 meters away in the 
     dark).  ;-)  What was the original thread that prompted this question?


From: (David Gadbois)
Subject: Prudish Americans
Message-ID: <19940824185944.0.GADBOIS@CLIO.MCC.COM>
Date: 24 Aug 94 08:59:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5857

    From: (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
    Date: 23 Aug 94 00:59:04 GMT
    X-RQ-ID: 5802

    Issue #8's cover was expurgated for the US!  I wonder what they
    thought of the cover for the first edition of US Pagan Publishing's
    'Unspeakable Oath'!

Actually, there were two covers for the U.S. edition of Tales 8.  One
was the grotty Mark Baldwin Chaos hell-pit seen in the UK edition and
the other was a much more subdued picture of a Lunar soldier drawn by
Dan Barker.  There were three reasons for the two covers:   1) Worry
about sending the Baldwin cover to potential distributors and game
stores in the states.  These guys really are paranoid about offending
the fundamentalist types here, and some of them are pretty uptight
themselves; 2) A clever marketing move suggested by David Hall to get
folks to buy once of each; and 3) I really liked the Barker cover, and
it reproduced better than the Baldwin one.

Since I supply the South Pacific markets, the Australian (MOB) and New
Zealand (Neil Sanson) distibutors also got a mixed batch of covers,
though I recall that MOB ordered a higher proportion of the Baldwin

--David "not Baur, Blair, Blizzard, Cake, Camoirano, Cheng, Cordes,
Cowling, DeKruger, Dunham, Edison, Hall, Hayes, Hixon, Leighton,
Millians, Pearton, Radzik, Shubert, Simkins, Straub, Wible, or Williams
but" Gadbois


From: (Nick Eden)
Subject: Moon Boat
Date: 24 Aug 94 20:34:51 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5858

>Tell them to look at the cover of Strangers in Prax.  There are the 
Coders>disembarking into Pavis, and above the moonboat is a small red 
billiard >ball
>aka the Red Moon.  Of course, this could just be artistic license...

Nah, that isn't the red moon. Thats the bit of moon rock that supports 
the moon boat by being pulled back towards the red moon. Look at the 
lines of the boat.

I always ran things so that the moon crept over the horizon as the Lunar 
Empire expanded in your direction. These days the moon would definately 
be visible


From: (John Strauss)
Subject: etcetera
Message-ID: <199408250239.WAA24863@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU>
Date: 24 Aug 94 18:39:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5861

Kevin Rose sez:

>Sever Spirit and Resurection

> ....someone killed by a Sever Spirit was just dead.  They were
>killed by the manifestation of the death rune and Resurection was
>not an option, as the spell directly conveyed their spirit to the
>final destination, the details on which I'm a little hazy.

>    Anyone have any information on whether a sever spirit is
>suposed to be resurectable?

Well, no _information_ per se. Just strong opinions. 

Just as there is disruption and heal, just as there is true sword
and heal body, so is there sever spirit and resurrection.

Truth is just as strong as Illusion, Life is just as strong as
Death. There is nothing a Humakti can do that a Chalanna Arroy of
equal strength cannot undo.

If a Humakt initiate cleaves a victim's head with a sword, a
Chalanna Arroy initiate has a melee round to heal the victim up to
a life-sustaining level before the tie between body and spirit
unravels. ("Well it just so happens that your friend here is only
MOSTLY dead!")

If a Humakt priest cleaves that tie, a Chalanna Arroy priest can
knit it back together. Sever Spirit and Resurrection are each 3
point rune spells and they exist in perfect counterpoint to each
other, Death and Life.

I don't doubt, for a moment, that there are Death heroes who can do
that sever spirit trick "irrevokably". At that point, I guess you
need a Life hero to fix it. 

Glorantha has that kind of balance in her at the highest and lowest
levels. In the particular case of Chalanna Arroy and resurrection,
CA didn't just twiddle her thumbs during the Lightbringer quest,
arguably, that entire quest was one of resurrection. I think the
lightbringer quest is where the spell comes from in the first

Besides, the interpretation range between sever spirit killing and
killing permanently is so drastic that the spell description would
HAVE to specify permanence. It doesn't. 

Kieth Smith sez:

>Orlanth is given the spell of Darkwalk (which confers invisibilty
>AND silence), which all sources state he stole from Kyger Litor. 
>Although Kyger Litor has no such spell, Argan Argar does.  How
>does one account for this????  

I am not sure I understand the question. How does one account for
what? Kyger Litor and Argan Argar, both darkness dieties, had
darkwalk. Orlanth stole darkwalk from Kyger Litor. When the dust
clears, Orlanth and Argan Argar have darkwalk and Kyger Litor does
not. If there is not an explanation in my babbling, please restate
the question.