Bell Digest v940827p1

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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 27 Aug 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


From: (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Pendragon Pass DI.
Message-ID: <>
Date: 26 Aug 94 07:16:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5884

I ask:
> >David D., how do you do DI in Pendragon Pass?

And am duly asnwered:
> Given that I was trying to make the magic system as compatible as possible
> (the idea being you could look at Gods of Glorantha and get a good idea
> about things, despite using Pendragon), I figured it would be the same as
> RQ. A d100 roll is a bit out of place in Pendragon, however.

Actually, I'd forgotten PP (unlike Pendragon) even _had_ POW.  Duh.

> Perhaps there
> should be a rule that you make a POW roll and religious virtue rolls, and
> depending on how many you make, you have more POW left over afterwards.

Ignoring POW for the moment, the requirement "make all five virtue rolls"
might be quite workable, though it gives rather different chances than RQ
rules do...  (About 3% for a straight 10's guy, 25% for a straight 15's guy.
And 100% for a straight 20's guy, natch.)



From: (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Things
Message-ID: <940826072332_100270.337_BHL52-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 26 Aug 94 07:23:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5885

Blue Wizard multiplieth words without knowledge:

I'm worried I've blundered into something personal between Peter and some 
other friends of mine. Still, for all that, a quick record-straightener.

As he noticed when retyping his quotation, PHM identified himself as a man 
"with a faction of God Learnerism". Not a fRaction. Assuming he liked the 
bastards came naturally enough, especially given the tedious/tendentious 
nature of his posting. He then took an attack on "the bollockly nature of 
God Learnerism" as a personal attack. I think we see his true colours.

As Entekosa is a Pelorian rather than Dara Happan deity, the fact that 
neither Orlanthi nor Dara Happans comprehend her does not mean we can't. 
Given that Entekos is the Mother of Moons, and Molanni apparently is not, 
this seems to me to blow a hole in the identification of the two.

I can't pretend to follow PHM's argument: he says that Entekos is not the 
Mother of Moons, and that Annilla is not a Moon, and that therefore... at 
this point I become lost.

In the Entekosiad, Ariria, Naveria/Sedenya, Lesilla and Koveria are the 
daughters of MaElsor, not of Dendara. Can't think where the latter came 

> I challenge him to produce one example where [Godtime] was otherwise.

Voria. Firstborn and lastborn of the gods. KoS p.67, 89.

Any more invective, Peter, can you send it straight to me? Leave these poor 
people out of it.

Chris Wehman:

[re: Jarst Daro]

There's some good but official material about Ogres in "Shadows on the 
Borderlands", mostly by Martin Crim if memory serves. The unpublished/ 
unofficial stuff I've heard of is by Paul and Finula. Can't recall whether 
it was posted here.

Rich Staats:

> Why would you be loth to put in a major Duck group? It would be a big
> hit with a younger gaming crowd.

That's why I don't put them in. Anyway, Ducks without Paul Jaquays illos 
are like (insert favourite parallel).

> Moose and Elk are quite difference in appearance... What was the original
> thread that prompted this question.

It's a linguistic thing. English-speaking nations get the names the right 
way around, but foolish Americans have garbled them. We're trying to work 
out whether we agree or disagree about Moose (and/or Elk) Hsunchen. Me, I 
like them more than I like Ducks...

Nick Eden:

> Nah, that isn't the red moon. That's the bit of moon rock that supports
> the moon boat...

In my (balloon) theory, it's very small right now 'cos the boat has landed. 
When it takes off, the sphere expands and ascends.

No disrespect to your (or any other) campaign, but I think the modern 
consensus is for a red moon visible practically everywhere in Glorantha, 
visibly going through its phases both inside and outside the Glowline.

Tim Minas:

> Remember, the stuff in CoP is not 100% absolutely accurate and concrete.

Agreed, vociferously.

> No moon = no Lunar magic.

The Zero Wane?

re: Issaries/Etyries:

One phonetic shift that can happen in dialects (I think between Attic and 
Ionian Greek) is from S to T sounds in words. A real-world example is 
"thalassa", "sea", also pronounced "thalatta". A Gloranthan one might be 
"Issaries" / "Ittaries".



From: (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: RP v RQ v DP.
Message-ID: <>
Date: 26 Aug 94 07:48:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5886

Tim Minas:
> The Lunars. With access to all the elementals except Sylphs, Lunar magic,
> Sorcery, and strange Lunar Divine spells, these units are easy to see in RQ
> terms.

That depends what you mean by "RQ terms".  That the individuals you mention
are responsible for the effects I agree with, that they are adequately
described on that scale by existing RQ rules I demurr from.

>    Second point here, on regaining your spells. IMO (and this is an impression
> gained from reading the rules and from a discussion with Sandy Petersen a few
> years ago) if the temple you are praying at doesn't offer the spell you want,
> you can't regain it there.

From some things I've heard Greg say, I think this is only partly true.  I'll
hedge my bets for now and say "is more difficult".  In the context of my
previous rational for regaining spells, I'd say that the local types at a
shrine, say, wouldn't know how to properly conduct the rituals for spells
other than their one local one, so you have to arrange your own ritual, if
they're game for the idea.

> This is another argument against Rune Power, by the way.

Well, under my variant, if you actually cast a particular spell (qua spell),
rather than using Rune Power to do it, you'd still have to regain it at an
appropriate temple.  This would happen to initiates as a matter of course,
and to priests having used up all their Rune Power.  I can think of the odd
extra restriction, but I'm not sure it's really necessary.



From: (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Western Script
Date: 26 Aug 94 08:23:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5887

This is an appendix to a discussion from about a month ago: We don't 
know exactly how Western script works, but we have one example for how 
it looks like - the illustration of the wheel coin in GoG, p.54. 
According to this the Westerners use a runic-like script similar to 
early Italic, Celtic or Nordic script. Whether this is syllabic or uses 
actual letters we cannot say from what little evidence there is; if it 
uses letters, then my theory about drastic abbreviations seems to be 

--  Joerg Baumgartner


From: (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Rune Power comments
Message-ID: <>
Date: 26 Aug 94 08:30:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5888

Matt Thale proposes:
> Spells that are normally one-use for priests and lords are not
> regainable by initiates, and the priest/lord must roll as an
> initiate to regain them.

I'm Strongly In Favour of Nick's idea for letting initiates regain rune
magic, but I dislike the (admittedly apparently analogous) idea of letting
one-use spells be regained (by priests).  After all, if you want this
sort of effect, you can effectively get it by mechanisms like those used
for Enchant Thunderstone.  Making _all_ magic eventually regainable seems
Mythically Incorrect to me.  Ruins all sorts of plotlines in the Mahabharata.
Oops, wrong game world.

> At the moment, I'm not using Rune Power in any of its various forms.
> However, I'm seriously thinking about it. Currently, none of my
> players is rune level, so I don't really have to worry too much
> about Rune Power since I'd restrict it to Priests and Lords.

I don't think it does significant harm to let initiates have access to rune
power; after all, they're the people least able to abuse it.  (They'll have
less, and won't be able to regain it (as fast)).  Doubly so with my varient
((im)modest cough), since you have to have at least two "ordinary" spells
before getting Rune Power would even make sense.

And I think that if your campaign level is initiatish, then allowing more
flexible access to rune magic has at least some beneficial MGF impacts.

Alistair Langsford:
>     On the Game Mechanics side, I like the modification that before a 
>     Divine spell could be cast from the RunePower Pool you had to have 
>     'learned' it anyway, by sacrificing for it as you do now.

A recruit! ;-)  Or was that a vote for Henk's idea?  Where's my programme...?

>     Perhaps the 
>     ability to create the RunePower Pool in the first place is a Divine 
>     Spell in the first place.

I have an allergic reaction to the term "Pool"; perhaps a nasty holdover
from playing Champions many moons ago.  And because the Anti-RP Faction
like to use it as a term of abuse, I suppose.  (Stand up, Sandy "Shapeless
Undifferenciated Pool" Petersen, and hang your head. )  I preferred to
regard it as Just Another Spell (sorta), itself.



From: (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Issaries and sons, Inc.
Message-ID: <>
Date: 26 Aug 94 08:34:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5889

Keith Smith:
>         IMO, Etyries was one of the four subcults established by Issaries at
> the dawn of time ( four sons was a typo since most gods were male at the time
> of the CoP write-up).

I suspect that the four "sons" are Harst, Garzeen, Goldtongue, and Herald.
While gender is somewhat uncertain with gods, pettyfogging distinctions
like "son" and "grandson" are triply so.

> Also, Etyries is and was worshipped as a seperate
> subcult since the dawn of time.

Possible, but at least equally possible that the thousand years referred to
is retconning/Lunar propaganda/mere convention.  After all, if you were
an ordinary Garzeen priestess called Eytries Fakebeard, and were setting
up hero cult to yourself, wouldn't you jazz up your parentage and history
as much as possible to Sell Yourself to the credulous masses?

> Orlanth is
> given the spell of Darkwalk (which confers invisibilty AND silence), which
> all sources state he stole from Kyger Litor.  Although Kyger Litor has no
> such spell, Argan Argar does.  How does one account for this????

This is due to the little-known fact that after someone steals something
from you, you don't have it any more.



From: (Darragh J. Delany)
Subject: Dragon Pass, Nomad Gods Etc.
Message-ID: <>
Date: 26 Aug 94 12:11:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5890

Could someone please summarise the history of the Dragon Pass/Nomad Gods
trilogy of games. I've just finished reconstructing Nomad Gods from some
photocopies we got from Greg (pile of questions on it but I'll leave them 
until some other time, if anyone is quite familiar with the game could
you let me know so I can pick your brains on it?) but I'm a little unclear
as to what revisions/ errata/variants/link rules there may be out there.

Anybody know anything??



From: (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Magical Regiments and acres.
Message-ID: <>
Date: 26 Aug 94 09:34:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5891

N. Smith:
> Except that if you look at the Rabbit Hat Farm map, each field is roughly 
> 25m*40m, one hectare, one quarter of an acre, thus decreasing the spell's 
> power.

A hectare is 10,000m^2, btw, or about 2.5 acres.  Rereading Sun County on
these stones, it strikes me they aren't spell matrices of any kind, but
rather some form of "focus" for what one might be tempted to call... communal
magic.  Whether it's precisely Mass Bless Crops or not is a different matter.

> Alex in X-RQ-ID: 5769
> "I don't think the (undoubted) innovations of the Magical Regiments included
> the fairly straightforward business of having a group of divine magicians
> cast their spells in concert."

> Perhaps it involves them casting their spells via a "chief magician", who 
> acts as a "fire-coordinator", casting no spells himself (maybe a Ritual?) 
> but directing those cast at him to fresh targets.

I think the point of the Magical Regiments isn't the _magic_, it's the
_regimentation_.  I think traditional organisation of spell-casters would
be to have most with (and often leading) other units, each casting their
magic on an individual basis, plus at least a handful with the command
unit, who would be able to use some kind of concerted magic, as would the
odd "special" unit, such as temple contingents.

The upshot of the MRs was to have larger consolidated groups, organised as
a military unit.  Have them drill spell-casting, as a phalanx drills forming
up a pike-and-shield wall.  Integrate them into the command structure of
the army.  Give 'em a spot of military discipline, the idle wasters.  Ponder
suitable strategies for using them as a distinct type of unit.



From: (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Moosing about in the Net
Message-ID: <>
Date: 26 Aug 94 04:02:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5892

to rstaats in RQ-ID: 5855

The original question was "Why do Americans call elk 'moose'?"
The word moose came into use in eastern North America when it was
adopted from a local native american word. This apparently left the
word elk unused, and it was later applied, mistakenly and confusingly
to the wapiti. 

I agree, no-one who has ever seen a moose or a wapiti will ever confuse
the two. The people who applied the name 'elk' to the wapiti must
therefore have never seen the european elk. Presumably they just knew 
that the elk was a very large deer. 


From: (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 26 Aug 1994
Message-ID: <>
Date: 26 Aug 94 03:15:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5893

I like the name "Aleci" for moose hsunchen and will institute it in  
my campaign. Thanks, Jonas and one of the many Daves.

Joe Lannom:
>I'm looking for something akin to a cult write up for Ragnaglar.  I  

>know, I know, he's dead... but that doesn't stop anyone from  
>worshipping gbaji, why should it get in the way of several broo  

>shaped fanatics?
	Actually, no one "worships" gbaji or even Nysalor either.  
Though I guess some folk honor them. Ragnaglar, as a deader, has no  
more cult than Genert, Vadrus, or Yamsur. You'd think that Genert  
would have a cult, if anyone would, but nope. No doubt the utter lack  
of any magic power stemming from such worship has discouraged  
potential inductees. 

	That said, I've seen at least four different writeups for a  
Ragnaglar cult and if you're dead-set on having him in your campaign,  
you could use one of them. 

	I also imagine there are several different "cults" of  
Ragnaglar in Glorantha. Broos masquerading as Ragnaglar to their  
clan; misguided fanatics in the Kingdom of Ignorance trying to  
re-enact the Unholy Trio's plot; etc. 

	I think Glorantha is as prone to "false" religions and cults  
as modern Earth. Maybe more so. 

David Dunham:
>But the real question is, do Hsunchen ride their totems? 

	Most don't, I'm sure. But a few must. The Galanini do. I'm  
sure that Uncolings ride in reindeer-pulled sleds (reindeer are  
generally too small for a rider). An elk or moose is ridable, but I,  
like Dave D., don't picture the Aleci or Pralori as riding nomads,  
but as running alongside them. 

> I merely said that it seemed to make sense that the Damali and the
>Pralori weren't the same people, and didn't totemise the _same_  
	I don't think anyone has argued for that at all. Certainly I  
haven't. Though I'm not sure what exact type of deer the Damali  
worship, I'm sure it is a different genus from the Pralori animal,  
and I'm also sure that the Damali beastie is much smaller. 

	Aren't there any small deer in Europe besides fallow? Fallow  
seem to be _too_ small, from what I've heard. Whitetail deer are  
reasonably-sized and well-antlered. They'd be suitable for Damali. 

>The real difference is that the Lunars have Fear, Mindblast and  
>Madness, the Sartarites have only Demoralize and Befuddle
	Why don't the Sartarites have Lightning, Thunderbolt, Sever  
Spirit (for the Humakti among 'em), & Thunderstones? These seem  
nearly as useful as the Lunar assault magics. 


Message-ID: <>
Date: 26 Aug 94 16:23:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5894

News flash:
    Despite what someone said on the Daily Thursday, the Dara Happan Book of
Emperors is not available from the Wizard's Attic.  They asked me to call
back in six weeks "or so."  Please don't call them up, as they have to pay
for the 800 number call.


From: (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Infinitely Invisible?
Message-ID: <>
Date: 26 Aug 94 20:45:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5895

Sandy and Alex:

>>       Well, certainly all the members of the court had the infinity  
>> Rune. On the other hand, Flamal & the Invisible God don't seem to  
>> have been. Of course, the Invisible God doesn't fit into the whole  
>> Celestial Court ethos anyway. 
>And isn't the original owner of any rune, either.  I think his infinity
>rule is a) problematical: has anyone successfully cast RuneQuest Sight
>on the bleeder? and b) means something different to either of the above

Well, like I said earlier, I think the _malkioni_ consider the IG to be the
original owner of Law, since they identify him/it with the Creator. I see
nothing strange in the Creator being the origin of Law. But of course
theists might argue that the identification is wrong to begin with.

>Flamal's a bit of a sticking point, I admit.

Why? I don't think the origin deities of Man, Beast etc (you know, the
runes in the same category as Plant... uh, "Form Runes" I think it was...
the distinctions haven't been clearly stated in any of the RQ3 material,
have they?) were in the Court either, so why should Flamal be any

(      Jonas Schiott                                   )
(      Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria      )
(      Goteborgs Universitet                           )


From: (David Gadbois)
Subject: Oliver Thomas Pilkington Kirwan "Griselda" Dickinson
Message-ID: <19940826173144.6.GADBOIS@CLIO.MCC.COM>
Date: 26 Aug 94 07:31:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5896

Brad Furst mentions Oliver Dickinson's latest book, "The Aegean Bronze
Age" (harback ISBN 0521242800, paperback 0521456649.)  In the States you
can order it from Cambridge University Press (800-544-3320).  They only
have the hardcover version right now.  It runs US$64.95 plus $3.76
shipping.  I saw a copy of the book at Convulsion, and it looks great.

Oliver has also written "The Origins of Mycenaean Civilization"
(Goteborg: Astroms, 1977.  ISBN 9185058742) and co-authored with Hope R.
Simpson "A Gazetteer of Aegean Civilization in the Bronze Age"
(Goteborg:  Amstrom Forlag, 1979.  ISBN 9185058815.)

--David Gadbois