Bell Digest v940829p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 29 Aug 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest
format.

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


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From: PMichaels@aol.com
Subject: A request
Message-ID: <9408281028.tn404305@aol.com>
Date: 28 Aug 94 14:28:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5914

Once again, I ask of the Gloranthan scholars:
I remember reading some time ago a brief (1-2 paragraphs) letter about the
differences between the EWF and the God Learners.  I think it was from the
point of view of an EWF'er, and basically said that where the GL's have
"width", the EWF has "depth."  Was this a wishful hallucination, or can
somebody help me remember where this could be found?  My filing system is
still more influenced by Eurmal than Lhankor Mhy...

Peace,
     Peter


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From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Moose and Squirrel
Message-ID: <9408281731.AA19010@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 28 Aug 94 07:31:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5915


Okay, firstoff, the correct name for the really big one is "Moose".  The
reason that it's correct is the same reason that the Pax Britannica was
correct--the USA has the money and the guns and is psychotic enough to
use them for no particular reason.  This, if nothing else, makes us the
natural heir to the British empire--emulating our forebears, no?

The above argument is equally as valid as any other broached on this list
for the "correct" usages of "Moose" and "Elk" and "Red Deer".

In my campaign, the followers of Baron Moosehsunchen are called "Moose Folk"
by the virtous, freedom-loving, libertarian Theyalans and "Elk Folk" by the
vile, chaos-sucking, totalitarian Lunars.

Of course, that's only the scholars.  My players and any normal folk they
would talk to would call them "Those godawful damn-BIG Hsunchen!"

Anyway, everybody knows that Moose Hsunchen must be closely allied with
a pygmy tribe--the Squirrel Hsunchen.

Both of these tribes are threatened by the machinations of two Lunar agents,
a short man and a tall woman.  They speak with thick Carmanian accents and
constantly plot the destruction of the heroes of the two tribes.

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From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Ducks
Message-ID: <9408281733.AA19033@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 28 Aug 94 07:33:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5916


Ducks play an important part in my campaign.  They are the only Beast People
who are strongly allied with a human political unit.  They also maintain
ties with the sentient inhabitants of Beast Valley.  This may prove extremely
important in the upcoming trials for Kerofinela.  Imagine Duck Humakti astride
Centaur lancers screaming "Ironhoof and Humakt!".

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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Re: Thaw of Jonatela
Message-ID: 
Date: 28 Aug 94 18:42:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5917

First of all, thanks for filling me in about Bullwinkle, Scott. Now 
if this is the common source of inspiration about Hsunchen, I won't 
complain about Hershell Lewis or similar "serious" sources any more.

Alex Ferguson in X-RQ-ID: 5879

Moi:
>> Jonatela embraced its western parts before 1616 (when it opened to the 
>> rest). Timms thawed earlier, in 1597 (induced by the Lunars).

> As you were, I'd managed to misremember and misunderstand a misleadingly
> written paragraph in G:G.  (p15c3para2, to be precise)  Presumably the
> area actually being referred to is the "JON" of "JONATELA"...  But while
> we're on this subject, why do you say the thaw was induced by the Lunars?
> G:G blames Dona boatmen, after all.  Though this could cover people from
> Eastpoint egged on the Lunars, I suppose.

Something along that line. Eastpoint was the first city to have outside 
contact (the Lunar moon-boat expedition of 1589, see Jar-eel, p.34). 
Unlike the statement "[the Loskalmi] knights were instrumental in the 
lifting of the Ban" (p.15) the Eastpoint info gives a few clues how it 
escaped the isolation - lucky and clever use of one-use magic for the 
outward journey and (probably simultaneous) entry of the moon-boats, 
probably coordinated from the Red Moon, the goddess cheating once again.

-- 
--  Joerg Baumgartner   joe@sartar.toppoint.de

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From: Argrath@aol.com
Subject: Not about Antirius or Elmal
Message-ID: <9408281454.tn412941@aol.com>
Date: 28 Aug 94 18:54:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5919

     MOB says:
>Paul Reilly and Finula posted some excellent stuff on ogres to
>the Daily a while back, 

This might be true.  They have certainly written many
intelligent, entertaining, and true things.

>and some of their material ended up in "Shadows on the
>Borderlands": 'Eat Your Enemy in Secret'.  

     However, I'm clearly credited with this piece on the title
page of SotB, and that crediting is correct.  Having switched the
Peters, and shuffled the Davids, are we now randomly switching
U.S. citizens?
                            ---===---
     Ian Gorlick: please send me your Vivamort and Thanatar
write-ups.
                            ---===---
     I am now running a campaign using the old Borderlands boxed
set as a basis.  If anyone has run this and added scenarios,
story lines, or recurring characters, I'd really appreciate it if
they sent those things to me.  I have some ideas, but also have
10 players/characters, and I'm finding that a bit overwhelming. 
As always, I'm willing to trade info, so anyone with Borderlands
info can send me a wish list of what you want, and I'll try to
match it to the stuff I've written.
                            ---===---
One more bit on Bullwinkle:
     In 1988, TSR (used to stand for Tactical Studies Rules, now
stands for nothing in particular) put out the Bullwinkle and
Rocky tm Roleplaying Party Game.  It came with hand-puppets, two
dimensional rotating randomizers, and other neat stuff.  I'd be
interested to know if anyone has actually PLAYED this game.

--Martin ("not Paul Reilly or Finula McCaul") Crim



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From: Urox@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 28 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <9408281534.tn414461@aol.com>
Date: 28 Aug 94 19:34:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5920

Ian Gorlick says Tradetalk is Canuck:

You take off, eh! Many Americans speak in that flat, accentless news
announcer way to. And they get hired to be... news announcers. And don't try
to tell me that all Canadians sound the same, there are regional dialects
there. Quebec being the most slanted example.

No, tradetalk must be most like the lingua franca (pl. sp.?) around the world
where it uses items from many languages but does not belong to anyone in
particular. Like the various pidgin and patois languages throughout the
tropics. Or perhaps like English in India, where different groups use it to
communicate but it is not the milk tongue of any.

But I personally nominate Bahasa Indonesia, which developed from Pasar
(market) Malay, a trade language used throughout the Malay archipelago for
centuries and developed by the Dutch into a simple written form. It is almost
useless for conveying subtleties of emotion, but perfect for straightforward
trade communication. It's also easy to learn.

Mark Foster




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From: mcarthur@fit.qut.edu.au (Robert McArthur)
Subject: Re: Magical Regiments
Message-ID: <199408290122.LAA25217@ocean.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 29 Aug 94 21:22:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5921

One reason that magical regiments have only been seen in relatively
civilised areas (lunars ;-) could be that, to make it work, the members of
the unit must give their magic points and "spells" to another person/entity
(perhaps the esprit de corps).  Traditional sorcerors, magicians, priests
and the like are usually not going to give all their power over to someone
else and so it takes something major to force/coerce them together and give
up a major part of their personal power to make a larger, more effective
whole.

It should be possible to do this with other spells/magics than the fighting
magics too.  To take the de facto standard example of bless crops.  Perhaps
there is a magical unit of blessers who can whop out a fantastically
powerful and wide ranging bless crops... Ironhoof's ability to stop all
horses is an example.  I would postulate that this ability could be used in
many ways instead of just stopping the cavalry - perhaps like Hungry Jack
it could draw a cavalry unit towards Ironhoof...

Robert

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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Joerg Teasing Sandy
Message-ID: 
Date: 28 Aug 94 18:43:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5918

Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 5872

> Rich Staats:
>>Moose and Elk are quite different in appearance. What was the  
>>original thread that prompted this question?
>	The obstinacy of certain effete Europeans who refuse to  
> recognize the greater vigor of the elegant American language.

Hmm... I can C what U aim 4, but don't ask me 2 believe U...


> Joerg:
>>Elk to Europeans is the swamp-dwelling thing; cervus elaphus 
>>is non-European and unexpected in Europeanish context.
>	But Cervus elaphus DOES exist in Europe, and in more numerous  
> quantities than the moose. 

Maybe I trusted your Linnaeus too blindly - I lack a decent zoology 
reference book. If you mean the red deer of Europe, that's at most 
SIZ 13, not the SIZ 22 buggers you talk about below.

>>Does this definition cover the (presumed extinct) plains elk of the 
>>Praxian history?
>	Moose require more than just wet boggy ground to survive.  
> Willows, for one thing.

Hmm. I spent a year in northern Norway where there are quite a lot of 
mooses but hardly any willow. Seems that birches and moss serve nicely 
as diet for mooses. Dwarfed birches, come to that.

> I don't think the plains elk of Prax was a  
> moose variety. It might have been a version of the now-extinct Great  
> Elk (usually miscalled the Irish Elk in the U.S.A.), which we know to  
> have existed in Ralios before the Dawn. 

You talk about the Irish Deer, certainly.  Since you're the biology expert, what environment 
did the Irish Deer live in? If it was pre-dawn Ralios, there was the 
Great Primeval Forest. However, Prax and Genert's Garden were somewhat 
dense Savannah as well at that time, cf. the Oakfed story. Did the lost 
tribes of Praxian Beast Riders die out when the Oakfed deforestation took 
their means of subsistance from them? (Not immediately, but constantly 
declining.)


>> Fact is that while there might be more native speakers of Tradetalk  
>>in the US, there are far more users of Tradetalk over here n Europe.
>	That's because you are *sob* handicapped by the fact that  
> most European English-speakers are forced to learn the obscure  
> dialect of an isolated island off your northwest coast. I can only  
> point out that the enormous hordes of Latin American Tradetalk  
> speakers, who outnumber youse guys (ah, the wonders of American  
> English) use the word "moose", if they know it. 

Well, at some point in your history _my_ native language was in danger 
of being reduced to Tradetalk. Luckily English lost when the vote went 
for it to become the US official language. To paraphrase Shaw, English 
hasn't been heard in the United States for a century.


> 	I think Joerg is half-right. I don't think the God Learners  
> did it, though. I think it was done by the original Theyalans in the  
> First Age -- when the Dawn Council went about waking up the world,  
> they "discovered" that there was a trade god Garzeen in Seshnela.  
> Clearly one of Issaries children.

Was this the Theyalan attitude towards deities encountered in their 
expansion - just make them children of your own deities? Doesn't sound 
too different from God Learning then. (Come to that, the Osentalka 
project doesn't either.) I'd have expected an associate relation 
between Issaries and Garzeen at first. IMO Garzeen is the aspect of 
the 3rd Age cult most different from the Lightbringers' Quest deity, 
a sedentary, little communicating god waiting for anything to come to 
him. Harst at least actively visited his neighbours for trade goods.

> 	I believe that the God Learners took an already-unified  
> Issaries cult, and then further modified it in such a way as to give  
> all the various subcults organization and meaning. They may even have  
> invented Goldentongue to fill a needed slot. 

Seems the communication Rune works - I dont believe the cult was 
already that unified, but I agree that they just added finishing touches.

While I'm at the dissemination of Issaries cult practices, what 
about the mules? Outside of Prax there is no reason to use an 
artificial pack beast other than its obvious good footing for mountain 
travel. What kind of transport do the western Issaries traders prefer 
(Fronela, Ralios, Maniria, Jrustela, Umathela)? As long as there are 
decent roads or rivers, no reason not to use say ox-carts or barges.

Do the Stygian Trader Prince knights of Wenelia really use mules, or 
do they have pack horses?

And where in Glorantha do we find donkeys in the wild? Horses apparently 
originate from southeastern Ralios (Galanin) and from Saird (where 
the people of Nivorah used them for the first time, to escape the 
approaching Glacier, according to Plentonius/GRoY, naming Gamara but 
possibly referring to Hippoi).


>>Should this be true, I deny to use any Pralori in my piece about 
>>Ygg's Isles. I want sinister elk people, who can make a shield of 
>>the antler by cutting off the toothy bits, who can swim between the 
>>islands, etc. 

>	Apparently you know little about Cervus elaphus. They are  
> HUGE and shaggy, with needle-sharp horns, excellent swimmers, and  
> they can be mean. Bull elk (they're not called "bucks") make a sound  
> during the rut that can only be described as a roar. 

If this (and your cthulhuid story) is the case, I don't think we have 
this beast over here in Germany. True, the red deer does something 
which is described (in German) as "roehren", which seems to be somewhat 
diminutive for "to roar", but while looking somewhat royal, the red deer 
is too skittish to be considered majestic.

What I mean is that the beasts of Ygg's isles are the subarctic species 
of large deer with spoon-like antlers a sub-average-sized man can walk 
under.

-- 
--  Joerg Baumgartner   joe@sartar.toppoint.de

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