Bell Digest v940830p1

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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 30 Aug 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 28 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <>
Date: 29 Aug 94 08:43:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5922

Devin Here:

David writes:

"Maybe Plentonius ascribes motivations to Yelm, when in fact Yelm had
nothing to do with the event? To Plentonius, such an important event had to
be connected to Yelm. (BTW, a very quick skim doesn't show that Yelm had
anything to do with the flood, or are we talking about a different flood?)"

Correct you are, in the sense that it is not explicitly stated that the Flood
is caused by Yelm. Nevertheless, the fact that Yelm knows in advance about
the Flood AND that it just so happens to destroy all of the impure baddies
leads me to believe that their was some Yelmic origin.

I certainly agree that Plentonius would have no choice but to connect the
Flood to Yelm, but I just thought it odd that he would view it as an almost
wlecome and necessary event, unlike invasion after invasion after invasion of
Dara Happa which occur elsewhere and are regarded as calamity.


Devin Cutler


From: (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Not about Antirius or Yelmalio
Message-ID: <>
Date: 30 Aug 94 08:52:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5923

Vivamort and Thanatar

Ian Gorlick, please send me a copy of your Vivamort and Thanatar cult writeups.

Evading the Ban

Joerg says the Ban was initiated by the Lunars, as opposed to the traditional
view of Dormal.  I must say for the benefit of those who do not have Heroes
that many other people claim to have induced the thaw.  These are the Kingdom
of War (due to their effort of striving to break all boundaries) and the
Ecclesiarch of Northpoint (who apparently performed a documented lengthy ritual
for just that purpose).

Red Deer of Europe

I will now attempt to blunder into the Moose/Red Deer debate.

Joerg (teasing Sandy) wrote:
>Maybe I trusted your Linnaeus too blindly - I lack a decent zoology 
>reference book. If you mean the red deer of Europe, that's at most 
>SIZ 13, not the SIZ 22 buggers you talk about below.

The Red deer in New Zealand (introduced for hunting reasons) grows a lot bigger
than this due to lack of natural predators and a very good climate.  I live
about a block away from a deer farm and the male deer can easily grow to this
size.  Its horns can be quite fearsome (in the rutting/mating season) which is
why most hunters prefer to catch their stags from helicopters.


>While I'm at the dissemination of Issaries cult practices, what 
>about the mules? 

>And where in Glorantha do we find donkeys in the wild? Horses apparently 
>originate from southeastern Ralios (Galanin) and from Saird (where 
>the people of Nivorah used them for the first time, to escape the 
>approaching Glacier, according to Plentonius/GRoY, naming Gamara but 
>possibly referring to Hippoi).

Perhaps Donkeys come from Kerofinela.  There is a famous mural of Gilgamesh
which shows him in a war chariot drawn by onagers (wild asses).  Given that the
Theyalans did not domesticate horses until the the battle in the sky (between
Orlanth and Kargzant), I think that they originally used donkeys.  Now since 
they were surrounded on the north by Horse nomads and on the east by the 
Praxians, the pride of the theyalan calvary, a war chariot drawn by asses, 
looks outclassed.  I speculate that until the battle in the sky, the theyalans
having captured these magnificent animals and unable to tame them decided to
crossbreed the horse with their domesticated donkey to get its vigour.  What
they got was a mule.  Since this was even less useful in chariots, the mules
were dumped on the doorstep of the local Issaries merchant who attempted to
find a use for them.

--Peter Metcalfe


Message-ID: <>
Date: 28 Aug 94 23:58:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5924

I'm going to be in Kansas City on Labor Day Weekend for their renaissance
faire. If you're going to be there too, I'd like to meet you over a beer or
something. Let me know here or at
aka Mulborth, Valgrim Bull-Answers-Twice, and Fido Two-Big-Clubs (among others)


Subject: Convulsion '94, the video crew reports.
Date: 29 Aug 94 15:22:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5925

Well, here's yet another Convulsion aftermath message. This one's not
detailing what went on, but it describes how you can see (or re-see)
what you've been missing (or living through). Although I must admit
that there's almost no footage of the (according to the reports) main 
activity: drinking beer.

My original plans for taping Convulsion included hooking the camera up
to the adaptor and to a normal recorder and just tape all the seminars
completely. This, of course, would have resulted in a 24+ hour recording
which would have outbored the long version of War and Peace. Un/Fortunately,
a problem occurred in that the connection between camera and adaptor seemed
to be out of order, and I had to use batteries. As a result, there's only
a three hour video of Convulsion '94.

Also I had planned to be buying an MPEG-II video card for my nice new PC
and do extensive editing, subtitling and many other nifty things in the
production of the tape. However, it seems that this card is not yet 
available and possibly won't be for some months. So I decided to just
copy everything together. The events are more important than the editing

The resulting contents:
  Introduction. Who's who. Does Greg have that bodyguard because the ninja
     is still around? Does Sandy really need that chainsaw all the time?
     Is Jacob Jardine even now preparing Convulsion 2014? (5 min)
  Cthulhu Party Party. The election of a Cthulhuish big shot as the next
     European Chairman. See the organisation complain that the audience
     makes too much noise after asking them in the flyer to prove that they
     can outshout anyone. A perfect illustration of the UK political 
     system. (20 min)
  Trollball. See MOB's description a couple of dailies ago. No more need
     be said. (22 min)
  The final (I hope) round in the infamous "Initiation Debate". Joerg and
     Alex try to put this delicate subject (and each other) to rest with
     the help of padded clubs. (3 min)
  How the West was One. Even though I myself was busy playing a Rokari
     bishop, there is extensive footage of this main event, thanks to Henk
     who took over the camera for the duration. If you were in it, you can
     now see how silly you looked in that hat, and possibly what was going
     on while you were doing important stuff. If you want to be in it at
     RQ-Con2, don't worry: you won't be able to deduce any important info
     from this; even I have trouble understanding what is going on. But it
     does look good. (85 min)
  Gloranthan Storytelling. The best storytellers battle it out in the final.
     Contains the full presentation of Lewis Jardine's winning entry (with
     vocal support by the already mentioned Jacob). (40 min)
  Greg Reads. Unfortunately, tape was running out at this time and there
     was only room for one story: Grandfather Clay gets captured by Monster
     Man. (5 min)

As promised to Joerg the Initiation Battle will in the future be captured
as MPEG and placed on soda (if Shannon doesn't mind), but this will have 
to wait for that video card. As for the rest, we'll do the same as for 
RQ-Con: everybody who wants a copy lets me know, by email (
or snail mail (Hans van Halteren, van Ewijkweg 3, 6861 ZB Oosterbeek, The 
Netherlands). After a while I have a look at the number of requests and decide 
on a means of distribution and on the necessity of payment (or swapment in 
some cases). The video is in VHS/PAL at the moment but at least one NTSC copy 
will be made anyway. So let me know if you want a copy.

Hans van Halteren (


Subject: Whoops
Message-ID: <>
Date: 30 Aug 94 09:36:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5926

Mea Culpa

Sorry Martin, I should've checked before blithely ascribing your excellent
Ogre Culture write-up in SotB to Paul and Finula.

>Having switched the Peters, and shuffled the Davids, are we now randomly
>switching U.S. citizens?

Only inadvertently...

Martin goes on to say:
>I am now running a campaign using the old Borderlands boxed
>set as a basis.  If anyone has run this and added scenarios,
>story lines, or recurring characters, I'd really appreciate it if
>they sent those things to me.  I have some ideas, but also have
>10 players/characters, and I'm finding that a bit overwhelming. 
>As always, I'm willing to trade info, so anyone with Borderlands
>info can send me a wish list of what you want, and I'll try to
>match it to the stuff I've written.

Not ready, but hopefully for RQ Con, my friend and erstwhile co-author
Trevor Ackerly is writing a "Host Your Own Murder"-style mystery called
"The Fall of the House of Rone".  Who killed Duke Raus?  (The Duke himself
is actually one of the players, hanging around as his ghost - it's handy
having a family shaman who knows Summon Ancestor...)

Statman Needed for New Scenario

I am currently writing a scenario for Tales #13 set beyond the Building Wall
in the Holy Country, and featuring (among others) western Rokari, a renegade
Aolian and a menagerie of Beast Men.  David desperately wants this by mid-
September, as issue #13 must come out to bankroll the forthcoming
"Wyrms Footprints" book.

Would anyone like to help me with this scenario.  Specifically, flesh out
(write stats for) about a dozen NPCs.  I have written some background
for each of them, which you'll be able to work from, eg:

        The Wizard
        Father Pederik (pragmatic, unprincipled, calculating), a convert 
        from the Aolian Church during Richard of Malkonwal's campaigns.  
        He fled to Nochet after Richard's fall, and knows he can never 
        return to Heortland.  Pederik joined the Rokari Church purely 
        for personal gain, but in his exile felt snubbed by Bishop and 
        the other clergy because of his "barbaric" background.  However, 
        as a shrewd politician (who unfortunately backed the wrong side), 
        he has exactly the sort of qualities in a priest that the Capratis'
        find useful, if not openly admire. 

If anyone is interested, please get in touch.  I need the stats fairly
quickly, and will in fact rewrite the scenario around any cool things the
writer dreams up in the process.  The style to emulate when writing the stats
would be that of recent RQ publications, eg "Shadows on the Borderlands".

MOB - Not BOM, not OBM, not OMB


From: (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Tradetalk
Message-ID: <>
Date: 29 Aug 94 05:13:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5927

Okay, in my campaign, Tradetalk as such doesn't exist.

We have several different "languages", each called "Tradetalk".  
These languages are anything from pidgins to full-blown creoles, depending
on the locatin.  In Sartar, "Tradetalk" is a pidgin that is heavily based
upon Sartarite dialects.  It also has a LOT of Auld Wyrmish influence (about
equal)--although this is more grammatical than lexical, so most Sartarites
think of "Tradetalk" as "wierd Sartarite" and most Tarshites consider it
"wierd Tarshite".  Tradetalk is generally only used between different
species, in Theyalan-Grazer interactions, in Theyalan-Core Lunar interactions,
etc.  When Tarshites and Sartarites talk to each other, they usually end
up speaking their own languages, slowly and with much gesturing.

It also just so happens that Dwarves of the area consider the "Tradetalk" of
the area to be a "pidgin Dwarf".  This is mostly due to the whimsy of the
Dwarf of Dragon Pass, who invented his own language for his associated
Dwarves to amuse himself.  (He based in on EWF-ish, the language that evolved
into Auld Wyrmish.)  

This particular "Tradetalk" is known from southern Peloria to Corflu and from
Esrolia to Prax.  However, it is a Lingua Franca in the old sense.

The Trader Princes use a different "Tradetalk" that is based upon Old Jrusteli.
They claim that theirs is the "true" Tradetalk and the EWF-ish based one is
a result of hostile manipulations on the part of that draconic realm.

Kraloreli, of course, speak Kralori--and their customers learn pidgins based
upon it.

Ask what is used in the Vormain Isles.


From: (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 29 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <>
Date: 29 Aug 94 15:40:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5928

  MOB wrote:

>Paul Reilly and Finula posted some excellent stuff on ogres to
>and some of their material ended up in "Shadows on the
>Borderlands": 'Eat Your Enemy in Secret'.  

  Umm.  That was Martin Crim.  His article was primarily about "wild" ogres
who live out in nomad country, ours was more about city ogres.  Attribute
the mixup to a brain cloud.


Subject: Borderlands
Message-ID: <>
Date: 29 Aug 94 07:41:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5930

	Martin asks for Borderlands ideas.  I'm currently playing (off and on)
in a campaign built around Duke Raus' domain.  After completing the original
adventures, the Duke gave us land grants around the easy ford and use of the
Stone Tower (as long as we maintained it).  We've actually founded a small town
around the river near the South Bog.  I play a duck, so I've been recruiting
a lot of disgruntled ducks to come settle down in the area.  Running a town 
inspires a lot of adventures, particularly in terms of scouting the area and
in establishing trading routes.
	In another twist, the GM has decided that Jezra, the Duke's hell-raising daughter, has joined Storm Bull.  Part of it is due to her fiery personality,
and partly because Broos were responsible for her mother's death.  It's made
things interesting for the poor Duke, who is trying to find some nice Lunar 
noble to marry her off to.
	I don't get to play all that often (my GM lives in another state),
so I don't have much else to add.  I hope these ideas help.


From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: entekos
Date: 29 Aug 94 10:37:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5931

   Although I have not seen anything on the Entekosiad aside from what's 
   been written in the Daily, I would like to make several suggestions 
   about the Entekos/Molanni issue.
   Entekos presumably is part of the ancient Pelorian religion (i.e. pre-
   Dara Happan) worshipped presumably in the 1st century ST and linking 
   back to old Green Age myths.  Entekos is, I believe, a land/earth 
   goddess.  In the pre-Yelm period, either before or during Aether's 
   reign, the Earth presumably gave birth to children that rose up toward 
   the sky, and these were called the moons (same path the Red Goddess 
   followed when she took her place in the air/sky).  The Dara Happans may 
   have ignored these celestial bodies since they weren't of a fiery nature 
   or were feminine in principle.  But when Umath/Rebellus 
   Terminus/Orlanatus took to the sky and fought for a realm, these moons 
   were cast aside and down upon their mother (or escaped into the sky 
   realm).  Seeing the disruption of the heaven, Entekos then gave birth 
   to or created the calm air (or gave up her earthly place to calm the air 
   herself).  By the dawning, the moons were gone (or had moved and changed 
   themselves into wanderers like Tolat).
   Molanni, on the other hand, may have been Theyalan in origin and unknown 
   in this region of the world (or she may have been a Dara Happan 
   construct to explain the presence of air when storms or winds are 
   lacking).  Given the assorted Orlanthi mythos in KoS there is hardly 
   even room for a goddess such as Molanni (all the 'good' storm gods are 
   male after all).
   Another possibility (and one that I like more as I think about it) is 
   that Molanni came from Prax--that she is in fact Mistress Calm, one of 
   the four air gods of that land--and she came with the Praxian 
   beastriders who helped oust the horse nomads from the Pelorian basin.  
   The beastriders would pre-date Plentonius and would have established a 
   place for Molanni.  Plentonius would then have to include her in some 
   fashion, as would the Orlanthi, since the Dara Happans took so readily 
   to her role.
   Entekos never travelled though and was largely suppressed by the Dara 
   Happans, though they recognized her as a provider and therefore included 
   her in a positive fashion.
   I do not believe that Entekos and Molanni were the same in origin.  They 
   may be the same now if some ambitious hero has linked the two cults 
   together, but I think the connection would remain fragile.


From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: sylila
Date: 29 Aug 94 10:59:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5932

   - Alison asks about the nature of Sylila
   Based on some discussion with Greg and my own investigations into the 
   Conquering Daughter, the following is a rough outline of my 
   understanding of the area.
   First Age:  native Pelorians in the area follow the land goddess 
   Reladiva who had conquered the god Oslir/Nestentos.  Horse nomads have 
   difficulty in this area, perhaps driven away by a curse.  Elves are 
   comfortable in their forest of Rist.
   Area is liberated by the Theyalans who bring Orlanthi worship.  This is 
   similar to the culture/worship that spreads into nearby Lakrene and 
   forms the basis of the Sylilan people/tribe.
   Dara Happan resurgence conquers the area called Dara-ni, a linguistic 
   memory of their ancient Nivorah.
   Second Age:  Dara Happan Empire firmly in place until the EWF defeats 
   them.  The Sylilan tribe trades with Dara Happa.
   Eventually, the kingdom of Saird rises to help in the overthrow of the 
   EWF.  They have a distinct culture, neither Orlanthi nor overtly Dara 
   Happan (though leaning more towards the latter than the former).  The 
   strength of the Sylilan tribes is probably weakened.
   Third Age:  Saird falls at some point and the Sylilans reassert their 
   power.  The River Folk are of importance by this point (they probably 
   have affiliations with the oldest native Pelorians of this area).
   The rising Lunar Empire with Dara Happan affiliations conquers Dara-ni 
   (or it was previously conquered by a resurgent Alkoth).  Sylilans and 
   River Folk pushed back.  Major war starts with the Moonburn to force 
   elves out.  Lunar colonizers arrive in Rist and Dara-ni.  Hwarin 
   Dalthippa marries Ingkot to tie most powerful Sylilan clan to Lunar 
   cause.  Other Sylilan clans and River Folk fight Lunar invasion.  Hwarin 
   quests to become/invoke powers of ancient Reladiva and defeats the 
   Jillaro is built, as are the Lunar roads.  More colonizers arrive.  The 
   Lunars here convert many of the Orlanthi (best shown by the continuity 
   of this area with the Lunar way during the invasion of Sheng Seleris).
   Current:  Lunars firmly in place, almost like a piece of the Heartland.  
   The Conquering Daughter is the focus of worship and represents both 
   fertility (yes, she has fertility aspects now) and protection 
   (traditional idea of the warrior woman).  Ernalda, if she was here, has 
   been driven out.  Orlanthi customs, like the Council, probably exist in 
   rural areas, but the Council would be led by the Conquering Daughter and 
   aided by Etyries, Irripi Ontor, Yanafal Tarnils, Jakaleel the Crone, and 
   Danfive Xaron.  In the colonized and urbanized areas, the older Pelorian 
   forms are reemerging and in Dara-ni, the Dara Happan patriarchal forms 
   are well entrenched.
   Of course, not having the latest book DHBE means that any thoughts 
   recorded there are not here, so if there are contradictions there, 
   please add/revise the above.


From: (Scott Haney)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 29 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <>
Date: 29 Aug 94 22:17:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5933


First, Bullwinkle:  you're welcome.  (Although once you've seen an
episode, you may well want to retract your thanks.  :)

Second, English:

& Well, at some point in your history _my_ native language was in danger 
& of being reduced to Tradetalk. Luckily English lost when the vote went 
& for it to become the US official language. To paraphrase Shaw, English 
& hasn't been heard in the United States for a century.

Pedantic correction:  The US has *no* official language and never has.
German lost by one vote back in the early days, but the Founders decided
that the 'great melting pot' shouldn't have an official language.  Lately,
there's debate over this and a movement to make English (such as it is
over here) the official language. In fact, several states have already
done so.

Okay, okay, this is splitting hairs, but this is the RQ's a 

& While I'm at the dissemination of Issaries cult practices, what 
& about the mules? Outside of Prax there is no reason to use an 
& artificial pack beast other than its obvious good footing for mountain 
& travel. What kind of transport do the western Issaries traders prefer 
& (Fronela, Ralios, Maniria, Jrustela, Umathela)? As long as there are 
& decent roads or rivers, no reason not to use say ox-carts or barges.

I suppose that they use exactly that.  Being a river rat myself, I see
them in late 1800-s style barges.

\                                  \           _         ______ |
 \     Scott Haney                  \        /   \___-=0`/|0`/__|
  \                                  \_______\          / | /    )
  /                                  /        `/-==__ _/__|/__=-|
 / /         *             \ | |
/__________________________________/                        (o)