From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 31 Aug 1994, part 2
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From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Various wafflings...
Message-ID: <01HGK5LQZ0OIED4L1X@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 1 Sep 94 00:45:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5952
Devin
=====
>Correct you are, in the sense that it is not explicitly stated that the Flood
>is caused by Yelm. Nevertheless, the fact that Yelm knows in advance about
>the Flood AND that it just so happens to destroy all of the impure baddies
>leads me to believe that their was some Yelmic origin.
How does Yelm know it in advance and where does Pletonius say this? Since Yelm
could not comprehend the others (such as Umatum), I have serious difficulty
believing Mr P.'s assertion on the Gods Wall that Yelm foretold the future.
>I certainly agree that Plentonius would have no choice but to connect the
>Flood to Yelm, but I just thought it odd that he would view it as an almost
>welcome and necessary event, unlike invasion after invasion after invasion of
>Dara Happa which occur elsewhere and are regarded as calamity.
A corrupt dynasty was ruling! They wanted people to take their clothes off! Of
course the flood has to be good! :-). On a more serious note, have a look at
the six wounding errors of Antirius and see if you can identify the people
involved. Why did Pletonius leave that in?
MOB
===
>_______________________________
>Statman Needed for New Scenario
I can help.
Entekos
=======
Harald writes
> Entekos presumably is part of the ancient Pelorian religion (i.e. pre-
> Dara Happan) worshipped presumably in the 1st century ST and linking
> back to old Green Age myths. Entekos is, I believe, a land/earth
> goddess.
Entekos means 'Rightful Air' in Dara Happan. Although she adopted that name
later on, I have serious doubts about identifying the ur-Entekos as an earth
goddess.
> Seeing the disruption of the heaven, Entekos then gave birth
> to or created the calm air (or gave up her earthly place to calm the air
> herself). By the dawning, the moons were gone (or had moved and changed
> themselves into wanderers like Tolat).
It is very difficult, I think, for a goddess (or god) to transmute itself in
terms of elements. Lodril is the only one of know off and heat isn't too
different from the fire rune.
> Given the assorted Orlanthi mythos in KoS there is hardly
> even room for a goddess such as Molanni (all the 'good' storm gods are
> male after all).
The Orlanthi myths are no more complex than the family tree created by the
Westerners to explain the Hsunchen. It would be fairer to say that Molanni had
no place in the Storm Pantheon as known in Dragon Pass. This is however based
on Orlanth. Ragnaglar has his lands north of Fronela whilst Umath appears to
be born in Umathela. As Vadrus seems to be Ragnaglar (Kolat and Ragnaglar are
never mentioned in the same myth in KoS), it would seem to me that Molanni,
daughter of Vadrus, came into Dara Happa from Fronela
> Another possibility (and one that I like more as I think about it) is
> that Molanni came from Prax--that she is in fact Mistress Calm, one of
> the four air gods of that land--and she came with the Praxian
> beastriders who helped oust the horse nomads from the Pelorian basin.
Not having Nomad Gods (proving I'm not a god learner know-it-all), I can't
really say whether Mistress Calm is actually Brastalos or Molanni. Can someone
clarify this for me?
> The beastriders would pre-date Plentonius and would have established a
> place for Molanni. Plentonius would then have to include her in some
> fashion, as would the Orlanthi, since the Dara Happans took so readily
> to her role.
The battle for Argentium Thri'ile was about 239 ST. Pletonius had written the
GRAY in 244 ST. While five years could be a sufficient time for an old fuddy
duddy like Mr P. to shout 'Molanni, I love U', I doubt whether he would dare
contemplate inventing a precedent for her on the Gods Wall.
Joerg replying to Nick:
>Hmm. Entekos seems not to be the mother of the Blue Moon, whatever is
>true about the rest. When I asked what makes a stellar body a moon in
>the Convulsion Lore Auction, Greg didn't know. What moons are we talking
>about, anyway? Planets going through phases of some kind?
I guess we'll have to wait for the Entekosiad to find out! Dendara is a planet
according to the copper tablets, but does not appear in the sky today. If she
is than Gorgorma also appears to be one according to Kralori wisdom (Words of
Wisdom from the Sun King GoG).
David Dunhamm writes
====================
>A quote I ran across that might illuminate hsunchen:
^^^^^^^^^^
ARKAT! ONE OF THE BUGGERS IS STILL ALIVE!
Sandy writes
============
>Nicky:
>>I think the modern consensus is for a red moon visible practically
>>everywhere in Glorantha, visibly going through its phases both
>>inside and outside the Glowline.
> Though I basically agree with this, there must be
>_some_difference in her appearance within the Glowline. Perhaps the
>"dark" part of the moon is just a different shade of red.
Isn't the moon always full within the Glowline? :-)
Cheers
Blue Wizard (aka Peter Metcalfe)
---------------------
From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Bless Earth and Vinga
Message-ID: <9408310100.AA19805@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 30 Aug 94 15:00:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5953
First, Bless Earth is necessary to merely get a "normal" crop in Genertela.
In Pameltela, since the Father of the Land still lives, things are naturally
fertile, and Bless Earth gives you an excessive crop. As for the casting
"area", I completely discounted the given area as the product of modern
agricultural speeds. I run that villages that have enough Bless Earth
around don't starve and die. How many is "enough"? That all depends on
whether or not I want to run an adventure where there is a risk of a village
starving if another Earth Priestess or acolyte isn't escorted there in time
or if I want to run in a starving village.
Bless Earth is an explication of background magic. It doesn't need to make
numeric sense unless one is of the anal retentive persuasion.
As for Vinga, I have ALWAYS seen her as Orlanth's sister. What evidence is
there that she is Orlanth's daughter? I see her as one of the many unsung
and underappreciated daughters of Umath. She is an Orlanth "subcult" in
many Theyalan cultures because they just can't figure her out otherwise.
Vinga is Orlanth's sister. In Sartar, she is seen as an adjutant, often
in association (or even replacing) Elmal, the loyal thane. However, she's
also a hell-raiser and is invoked, by men and women alike, when people decide
to throw a real rip-snorter of a party. Vinga also has been known to take
Orlanth down a peg or two when it looks like he's been neglecting his duties
to Ernalda. (She happens to be the one who arranged for Heler to bed Ernalda,
too--this was after she bedded Heler herself, on her own terms.)
Vinga is wildness, freedom, and daring. She just happens to be a goddess
of these things instead of a god. In a patriarchical society, one that is
used to assigning ALL daring mythic acts to male deities (Babeester Gor isn't
daring, she's vicious), Vinga has a hard time shoehorning in. Thus, she
is a subcult.
I might venture that, In Esrolia, Vinga might be more highly honored. She
might be known as "Vinga Wind-Sister", who arranged the marriage for her
little brother, Orlanth, to blessed Ernalda. Esrolians might even go so
far as to make her the _de facto_ matriarch of the storm clan, who lets
her brothers handle various affairs as an Esrolian landowner lets her
men handle various business affairs.
Of course, I expect little acceptance of this on the daily, since my ideas
on Vinga just don't seem to be mainstream enough.
---------------------
From: Argrath@aol.com
Subject: [Detect ] Blank
Message-ID: <9408302109.tn12542@aol.com>
Date: 31 Aug 94 01:09:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5954
Re: Morokanth tactical inferiority against missile-toting mounted
enemies
I ran an encounter this past weekend between a group of PCs
and some Morokanth slavers. It was immediately obvious that the
PCs had a tactical advantage because some of them had bows and
all were mounted. It's a good thing for the Morokanth that the
encounter was peaceful.
Question: how have the Morokanth managed to survive on the
plain(e)s of Prax? Even the Bison and High Llama riders have
some members with missile weapons. Against Zebra, Sable, or
Impala riders, the Morokanth would seem to be so much toast. The
mounted foes can keep their distance and prevent the Morokanth
from escaping, meanwhile pincushioning our tapir-like friends.
The Morokanth have no missile weapons except the herd-men's
pathetic Thrown Rocks to return fire. The Morokanth have no
reputation for magical superiority, and in any case the range of
bows is greater than the range of spirit magic.
Morokanth are not generally known for wearing great armor,
nor do they carry shields. I'd allow as how they could stand
against normal bow users if they generally had seven point armor,
seeing as how many nomad bows would be self, rather than
composite. But the Gloranthan Bestiary gives them 4 point skin
and 2 point armor on vital locations. And in any case one out of
five hits is a special and one out of 20 hits is a critical, so
armor only gets you so far.
If equal groups of Morokanth and Impala Riders meet, and the
Impala Riders have laid by an adequate store of arrows, all other
things being equal, my money is on the pygmies.
My quick fix is to have the Morokanth carry great big
shields, which they can arrange in a circle to protect themselves
from missile fire. As a result, their enemies steal all their
herds, but the Morokanth can track them down and steal the herds
back at night, which leads to back and forth raiding--and the
question becomes "who gets tired first?"
Another possible fix is to have Morokanth groups be larger
than any other tribe's, but that only gets you part of the way
over their tactical inferiority.
Anybody else have any bright ideas?
--Martin
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From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Nick Brooke, direr foe of the Monomyth, and Rotten Tease.
Message-ID: <9408310312.AA10554@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 31 Aug 94 03:12:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5955
Peter Metcalfe writes on (and occasionally in):
> Personal Attacks and Invective:
> ===============================
> What really irked me about Nick's posting was not that he disagreed with me but
> chose to treat my posting in a dismissive matter. When I pressed him for a
> clarification, he disliked my work because I do not follow his preconcieved
> notions of how myths should be interpreted rather then offer any constructive
> criticsm or alternative opinion like Pam Carlson does in X 5903.
Neatly ducking the issue of whether Peter or Nick is being the more
obnoxious, either to each other or in general, I feel pressed to point
out that Nick's certainly not the only one with preconceived, or at
least fixed, ideas about myths. Without going into the details of
Peter's case, it's based on the premise that you can establish "Object
Identity" between two gods, in some meaningful, and objective sense.
This is what Nick is (I think, prinicipally) objecting to as "God
Learnerism", though to some extent, all Gloranthans do this. ("Ah,
your sun god must be our Emperor. Sorry, I have to kill you now.")
What to do, what to do. Well, save the overtly overt flamage for email,
one and all. And more generally, perhaps it would help forestall future
backdrafts if we were to acknowledge our assumptions somewhat more
explicitly, so our posts look less like flat assertion. Helpful hints:
"From a point of view internal to Lunar/Pelandan/other mythology, I think
that..."; "From an objective/God Learner/other stance, it seems to me
that..." Currently, your respective assumptions seem sufficiently different
that I'm not sure you're even debating the same thing in any real sense.
> in which case Sandy should hand over the crown of most obnoxious pendant.
I must (pedantically) note that he already has, to me. (I think he added
a rider that Joerg was the next challenger, so I may not be the title-holder
for long.)
> I know more when I read the Entekosiad.
Don't hold your breath: was classed as "No plans to publish in the forseeable
future", last I heard. (Boo, hiss.) I'm not sure whether to praise Nick
for his selective leaks, or vilify him as a Big Tease. (Clue in the subject
line, though.)
Alex.
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Vinga, Voria, n'stuff.
Message-ID: <9408310418.AA10574@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 31 Aug 94 04:18:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5956
Alison Place:
> In our game, there is a great spring ceremony on Aldrya's Day, when
> everyone plows their heart out from dawn to dusk, and then revels at
> night.
I'd have thought Voria was the more natural person to "blame" for this one,
though this association has the mild drawback that the some Voria initiates
(not to say priestesses) might get rendered Permanently Inactive in the
process. Still, them's the breaks.
> 5. Vinga = Orlanth Adventurous for women.
> I don't like this one at all, for several reasons. Since Orlanth
> is open to women, as well as men, why stick women in a special cult,
> unless there is something very distinctive about it, such as emphasising
> a dual heritage from both Ernalda and Orlanth?
Greg's attutude seem to be that all women Orlanthi are Vingans, but it's
a pretty notional distinction. At least magic-wise, and for all "practical"
distinctions.
I think I'd made Vinga a "sub"cult in a more traditional sense: women just
join Orlanth, though they may (also) call themselves Vingans. At many
temples, they only get "normal" Orlanth Rune Magic. At temples where
there's a number of Vingans, there'll be a Vinga shrine, and if large
enough, it'll offer a (the?) special Vinga rune magic. (Someone suggested
one a while back, Wind Run was it?) Larger, all-Vingan temples may exist,
but I suspect they'd be fairly similar to the above, with one or two
different rune spells from the O. Adventurous norm.
> By the way, RQ-Con Compendium plus many pages of dailies can be a
> dangerous thing to read late at night. [...]
> Unfortunately, the alarm then woke me.
Saved By The Bell, it sounds like...
Alex.
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