Bell Digest v940901p2

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 01 Sep 1994, part 2
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From: (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: DP magical units again
Date: 31 Aug 94 15:02:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5971

Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 5945

> Joerg
>>Lightning and Thunderbolt are somewhat Storm parallels to Sunspears, 
>>Sever Spirit is Yanafal Tarnils magic (although one-use), and 
>>Thunderstones are similar to Selenes in their effect. I was talking 
>>about mind-affecting spells, something the Lunars dominate.

>	The point is that a band of Orlanthi magicians are going to  
> have just as much attack Rune magic as a band of Lunars. The Orlanthi  
> won't have as many mind-affecting spells, but neither would a band of  
> Pent nomads or trolls (unless you count Fear). The Lunars have lots  
> of mental spells. The Orlanthi don't. On the other hand, the Orlanthi  
> have more effective physical spells (reusable Sever Spirit,  
> Lightning, Thunderbolt as opposed to most Lunar priests lack any  
> access to Sunspear) and move like hell on wheels (Flight, carried by  
> sylphs, Teleport). This makes them different from the Lunars in  
> combat, which is a Good Thing. 

True. However, their magical units in DP work on similar principles. IMO 
this indicates that these different magics aren't used when the spirit 
of such a regiment is sent out. The effectiveness of Orlanthi combat 
divine magic is reflected in the high combat values of the cavalry units 
of the Sartarite Magical Union.

Hell on wheels describes the Storm Brothers fairly exactly, but none 
of the other magical regiments of Sartar. I think that other Orlanthi 
would have similar, possibly less powerful units like this - e.g. the 
Oxhead temple near Dorastor, or Garundyer's followers. Maybe even the 
Praxian Orlanthi of Pairing Stone.

Pent Nomads would have Shaman units similar to the Praxian tribes, at 
least post-Sheng Seleris Pentans. 2nd Age Pure Horse People seem to 
have had different magic from the Praxians. Any volunteers for making 
a Nomad Gods scenario for Second Age Prax? The Praxian units would be 
identical to those of standard NG (again, does anybody have the French 
game with the Dragon Pass compatible rules, not those played at 
Convulsion which still use the ratio combat resolution tables?), the 
Pure Horse people could use the Grazer units from DP, but would need 
additional counters. I'd toss in the Barbarian horde (dark green in DP) 
minus Jaldon, on grounds of the Black Net story in KoS for the founding 
of the Pol Joni, but this would be barely enough to replay Alavan Argay 
(a crushing defeat for the horse nomads).

Warning: the following scenario hasn't been playtested, it is just a 
try to get started with more variants for the DP/NG game. Copyright 
August 94 by Joerg Baumgartner (is this ok with you, Alex?).

The battle of Alavan Argay:

Pure Horse Tribe:

uses the Grazelander (best twice) and the Barbarian Horde counters 
without Feathered Horse Queen and Jaldon, plus 6 additional counters 
for horse herds, a khan or hero counter, Golden Bow (use Lightning 
Boy or High Llama Founder for an approximation?), Hippoi (identical 
to High Llama protectress?) and maybe an Ancestor counter. 

Praxians: use Sable, Impala and Bison tribes, including tribal deities.

Divide up medicine bundles between Praxian tribes and horse tribe (for 
each bundle the Horse people receive each tribe gets one).

Setup: Similar to scenario 3, but not centered upon the Paps, instead 
use Tourney Altar as centre. Only the area west of the Paps and Biggle 
Stone hexes is used.

The Parts of the Devil will appear in the marsh hexes. The Eternal Battle 
starts at Winter Ruins. Spirits can be allied at the altars.

The game will last for 8 rounds.

Victory: The Praxians try to eliminate the Pure Horse People, who 
in turn try to survive. Since I had no chance to playtest this yet, 
I'm a bit unclear about victory.

Variant a:
The Pure Horse people try to escape across the plains hexes between 
Jaldon's Point and Barbarian Town.

For each support unit (horse herd or medicine bundle) they bring here, 
accompanied by a combat unit each, they get a victory point. For each 
pair remaining on the board or slain, the Praxians get a victory point.

Stacking limits: In chapparal a maximum of three full units may be stacked. 
in summer fertile ground, no limit for stacking if a support unit is 
included. No stacking of full units at all in the Dead Place.

Anyone volunteering for a play by email game of this? If someone comes 
up with an impartial way to roll the die, I can provide the maps and 
army listings.
--  Joerg Baumgartner


From: (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Morokanth fighting archers
Date: 31 Aug 94 15:04:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5972

Martin Crim asks for Morocanth anti-missile tactics in X-RQ-ID: 5954

> Question: how have the Morokanth managed to survive on the
> plain(e)s of Prax?  Even the Bison and High Llama riders have
> some members with missile weapons.  Against Zebra, Sable, or
> Impala riders, the Morokanth would seem to be so much toast.  The
> mounted foes can keep their distance and prevent the Morokanth
> from escaping, meanwhile pincushioning our tapir-like friends. 

>      The Morokanth have no missile weapons except the herd-men's
> pathetic Thrown Rocks to return fire.  The Morokanth have no
> reputation for magical superiority, and in any case the range of
> bows is greater than the range of spirit magic.  

True, the Morocanth lack effective missile weapons, and their magic 
does nothing on range either. My answer is: they don't shoot back, 
but they maneuver in spearheads.

Lacking decent hands, they cannot wield weapons or shields _and_ run 
quickly. However, they will have martial artists with Mobility, Ironclaw 
and Protection active who suddenly burst forth from their protective 

The Morocanth warriors will have 6-point armour except on the limbs. 
Speedart will help, Multimissile is mostly futile.
Even a composite bow will penetrate this only on a lucky shot 
(impales and 7 or 8 point damage), and the damage usually can be healed 
or ignored. Their RQ3 move of 4 is pityfully slow compared to an 
Impala's 13.

If the Impalas attack, they'll try to remain in about 60 metres 
distance - effective bow range (forget about the 90 or 120m ranges, 
not even against single Morocanth), but outside of magic range. The 
Morocanth are aware of this and form small outrunning groups of 
warriors, a dozen each or so, at intervals of about 50 metres. These 
warriors have trained herdmen which hold tent canvas or hides 
from tent poles, giving them very effective cover from arrows 
(ballistic cloth). Others might hold huge two-handed shields of 
the Pavis type. This gives the Morocanth small fortresses, inviting the 
Impalas to dash through the gaps. As soon as this happens, Martial artists 
with high Mobility cast upon them dash forth and simply try jumping 
kicks or shoulder rams against the fragile mounts. Once a single attack 
connects, the impala and/or its rider will likely be disabled and lie 
on the ground. A trample with Ironclawed hooves is a terrible thing.

The Morocanth are aware of the danger their mounted foes pose, so they 
have learned to use prairie hound colonies for their camp sites. The 
burrows of these will take as heavy losses from charging cavalry as would 
concentrated missile fire. Bisons and rhinos might be less prone to 
breaking legs, but they are also slower and less missile oriented. A 
high jumping kick by a 110 kg morocanth will unseat any rider, and most 
Praxians aren't worth much off their mounts. High llamas excepted, 
but their beasts have little armoured legs.

I think that tripping with ropes or coil traps might work as well.

And one important fact easily ignored by non-archers is that decent 
wood for shafts is extremely hard to come by in Prax. Each shot fired 
and not recovered (on a miss 80% likely to have disappeared, on a hit 
50% likely to be broken off) is the equivalent of loss of 5 hours of 
work, including preparations (glue, string-making) and getting the 
raw material. IMO the favourite spirit spell for Praxian archers 
is Detect Arrows or Detect . There is only 
so much fun to be had by hailing the enemy with arrows if you have 
no chance to recover them. And any rider who carries more than say 
two dozen arrows on the back of his mount will have serious problems 
with encumberance and the noise the clattering arrows make.

--  Joerg Baumgartner


From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: entekos/molanni
Date: 31 Aug 94 05:28:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5973

   - The Blue Wizard responds to my assorted Entekos and Molanni 
   Since I haven't seen anything other than GRAY on Entekos, I'm probably 
   not in a position to comment with any certainty on the nature of the ur-
   Entekos.  I would accept the following as true:  she is Pelorian, not 
   Dara Happan, in origin and is associated therefore with the ancient 
   earth cults; she is linked by Plentonius with a host of air related 
   titles (I concede that it is unlikely for her to transmute herself); she 
   is the Mother of Moons.
   Is Entekos a Green Age or Golden Age entity?  Given the general Dara 
   Happan feeling towards goddesses and the patriarchal tendencies of the 
   Golden Age myths, I would call her a Green Age entity.  If this is the 
   case, does she exist before Aether exists?  If she does, she can't be 
   an entity of air.  If after, then she can certainly be an 'air' figure.  
   Another possibility:  is she either the true child of Aether/Gata OR the 
   twin of Umath?  The idea of a twin appeals because it suggests the later 
   Orlanth/Red Goddess dichotomy.  (And while I'm on that train of thought, 
   is the Red Goddess perhaps the reincarnation of Entekos?)
   In regards to the Moon rune, we draw most of our evidence for the rune's 
   source from the writeup of Annilla in Troll Gods where there are 
   darkness and water connections.  It seems to me that the rune may 
   equally have an origin in the mix of light and earth (afterall, we have 
   Moon Rocks, not Moon Water).  Yes, I know the earth rune is square not 
   round, but the earth has dark tendencies that I think fit well.  Thus, 
   Entekos might be the child created in the first union of earth and sky, 
   rose up to her place, and was then torn down by Umath, though she left 
   a calm space where her moon had been.
   Regarding Molanni--I think she is Mistress Calm in Prax (Brastalos is 
   always associated with the water gods, produces waterspouts, etc.).  As 
   for the dates, 5 years would not be enough for Plentonius to take note, 
   unless the battle of Argentium Thri'ile was also a heroquest which 
   altered the hero plane and Plentonius found he had to include a mention 
   of her.  I concede this as unlikely, but I would ask whether the 
   beastriders might not have reached Dara Happa prior to the battle as 
   mercenaries in the employ of the Theyalans who had been around since the 
   1st century reawakening old spirits.
   - Starting up another line of heresy
   While I was working out my thoughts on the flood myths yesterday, I got 
   to thinking about what Plentonius was doing.  Since the Dara Happan 
   empire had just reemerged, I would guess that he was trying to tie up 
   lots of loose ends to get a comprehensive Dara Happan mythos.  But if 
   the tripolis had a unified mythos already, why would this be needed? thought is that the tripolis did not have a unified mythos, that 
   each city and its surrounding area had its own unique mythos that 
   Plentonius merged together.  Yelm, therefore, is a manufactured deity!  
   The true Dara Happan sun gods are Murharzarm in the north (probably from 
   Yuthuppa and brought from the city that won--hence the mythic city of 
   Yuthubars); Antirius in the central region (though many of his myths 
   suggest a southern Pelorian origin, as do the later Sun Dome temples); 
   and Shargash (or the earlier name Nemarthshar) in the south.  Other 
   areas sun gods were ignored or suppressed because they refused to join 
   the 'empire', including Nivorah (possibly Kargzant) and the Theyalan 
   lands (Elmal).  Each of these gods faces a similar series of myths--the 
   flood, the fall of the sun, etc.  But when Plentonius puts them 
   together, he rearranges them so that each important city's deities have 
   a place and aren't forgotten.  (After all, if he leaves out Antirius, 
   Raibanth will leave the empire.  Similar for Shargash at Alkoth.)
   Enough Nysalor riddles for the day.


From: (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: morokanth tactics
Message-ID: <>
Date: 31 Aug 94 08:09:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5974 in X-RQ-ID: 5954. Morokanth tactical inferiority 
against missile-toting mounted enemies

My guess would be that the morokanth tend to keep away from the most 
open areas of the plains and instead try to stick to rough rocky ground 
and other places where the mounted nomads can't go so effectively. This 
would also be the territory where the herd-men may have a competitive 
advantage as foragers.

I think you are right that when confronted by mounted enemies, the 
morokanth go to ground. Sheltering behind pavis-shields sounds sensible, 
I'll add that to their repertoire. 

I had a party chasing a bunch of morokanth slavers, once. The morokanth 
had a couple cross-bows and some thrown weapons, but these were pretty 
ineffective. What really did the party in was the spirit spells. A 
couple volleys of Demoralize and half the party was in uncontrolled 
flight, the rest of the party chose to flee with their comrades rather 
than face the morokanth at close quarters. 

When they caught up again, the morokanth had taken up a good defensive 
position where the party would have to dismount to reach them. No-one 
wanted to fight morokanth hand-to-hand so they negotiated a solution 


From: (Nick Eden)
Subject: Lunar Visibility
Date: 31 Aug 94 18:16:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5976

In-Reply-To: <9408270715.AA06783@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
>No disrespect to your (or any other) campaign, but I think the modern 
>consensus is for a red moon visible practically everywhere in Glorantha, 
>visibly going through its phases both inside and outside the Glowline.

No problem with that. I used my version partly because the imagery of 
this swollen bloted red thing crereping into Orlanth's place in the sky 
fitted the way I wanted the players to think of it, and partly because a 
long time ago I made a descision (for a different campaign) and now I'm 
stuck with the 'wrong' image. I know I've been Gregged. but should have 
said so in the first mailing.


From: (Nick Eden)
Subject: Peter Metcalf Writes
Date: 31 Aug 94 18:17:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5977

In-Reply-To: <9408280715.AA13281@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
"The tales of Voria are contradictory.  In the prosopaedia GoG, she is 
referred to as the daughter of Yelm and Ernalda whereas in KoS, she is 
referred to the daughter of Orlanth and Ernalda."

Yes. She is both. She is neither. Depends who you ask.
Voria is the Earth's bounty in the spring time. Therefore her father is 
the Earth's husband. In Sartar the father is Orlnath. In Darra Happa it's 
Yelm. In other places she'll be the daugther of all the other husbands.

Gloranthan mythological truthes are very subjective. Surely everyone 
knows this.


From: (Nick Eden)
Subject: --Martin ("not Paul Reilly or Finula McCaul") Crim writes
Date: 31 Aug 94 18:17:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5978

In-Reply-To: <9408290715.AA19593@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
>     In 1988, TSR (used to stand for Tactical Studies Rules, now
>stands for nothing in particular) 
Its either Tough Shit Readers or They Sue Regularly. Perhaps I shouln't 
have said that.

>put out the Bullwinkle and Rocky tm Roleplaying Party Game.  It came 
with >hand-puppets, two
>dimensional rotating randomizers, and other neat stuff.  I'd be
>interested to know if anyone has actually PLAYED this game.

I bought a copy for, but don't know if he played 
it. He was so taken with the idea that he moved house very soon after.


From: (Bernard Langham)
Subject: Erm...(awkward shuffle)
Date: 1 Sep 94 03:11:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5979

>From: (David Cake)
>Subject: Toon-Quest
>        I know that at least one game of Toon-Quest has been played over
>here, though not as based on particular cartoons as the suggestions made,
>and also with a more adult flavour. But it was called Toon-Quest.
>        Characters included the expected ducks and hobbits, a baboon who
>fought with a staff and rode on a sylph that appeared as a small pink cloud
>(people unfamiliar with the japanese TV series Monkey will not understand


Adventurer's Name: Wu Ch'eng En    Player's Name: B.Langham 
Species: Baboon                    Homeland/Clan: Hender's Ruins
Culture: Hsunchen (originally)     Religion: Daka Fal Lay, Orlanth Initiate

STR 23 CON 16 SIZ 7                                           6/6
INT 13 POW 18 DEX 13 APP 8 (hairy)                       6/5  7/7  6/5     
2H Quarterstaff (1d8+2+1d4) 80% SR 4 Parry 60% AP 15    6/6        6/6
Bite (1d8+1d4) 65% 
Sling (1d8+1d2) 55% Range 80m

Climb 95% Dodge 40% Jump 95% Speak Beastspeach 70% Speak Tradetalk 40%
Baboon Lore 85% Track 50% Hide 65% Sneak 50%

Spirit Magic: Healing 2

Magic items: "Summon small sylph" matrix (reusable) in Iron Circlet

Sylph: "Cloud" INT 5 POW 21 pick up/drop enemies (STR vs STR or 2d6 
falling damage); carry 1 man-sized or smaller being (up to size 20)

Background: Wu Ch'eng En started out life as a slave of the Sazdorf 
Trolls, adventured for a while on the plains of Prax, and ended up 
(believe it or not) falling through a dimensional portal in Sog's Ruins 
(or was it Ex?) which led to the Referee's laboriously written-up 
campaign-world of Lhankmar. Sadly, Lhankmar aint Glorantha, so after a 
few sessions the Toon-quest party's interest started to wander, and the 
game foundered.

I'm not sure where the hobbits came into it, though. David?

>From: (ian i. gorlick)
>[Thanatar Cult Writeup]
>I am willing to share these with anyone who is interested. They are 
>rather long so I am reluctant to toss them on the Daily (35k for 
>Vivamort 80k for Thanatar). If there is interest then I will send them 
>to individuals or to the Digest.

Me please!

Cheers, beers, steers,

"Father, Ruler, King, Computer." Germain Greer, _The Female Eunuch_, p. 94
Bernard Langham . . Perth, Western Australia


From: (Carlson, Pam)
Subject: Morokanth menace
Message-ID: <>
Date: 31 Aug 94 19:50:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5980


>Re: Morokanth tactical inferiority against missile-toting mounted

In David Dunham's "Grazers Tour Prax" campaign, our bow-toting pyromaniacs 
 wanted to take on small groups of Morokanth, in order to rescue herdmen - 
they felt that
humans being herded around by ANIMALS was intolerable.  We too speculated 
that our bows
and mobility would give us a great advantage.  However, we had found 
ourselves to be terribly vulnerable
to befuddle spells, and even the remotest possibility of being captured by 
Morokanth and turned into herdmen was
enough to deter us.  We figured the Morokanth must have some unknown special 
abilities, if the other Praxians
(who also had our advantages) hadn't already wiped them out.
So we swallowed our indignation, left the Morokanth alone, and in true 
Grazer style, went in search of
more profitable battles.  (We never did figure out what we'd do with 
herdmen, anyway.  Selling them would seem to defeat
the purpose of rescuing them, and they were too stupid even to become 


From: (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Horse devolution
Message-ID: <>
Date: 31 Aug 94 09:58:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5981

I think the devolution of the horse can be found in King of Sartar, in the
Grazer stories.

Basically, imagine a clawed, winged, feathered centaur.  That is the 
original "horse".
Bryan Maloney

A reasonable man adapts himself to his surroundings,
an unreasonable man expects the world to conform to his opinions.

Therefore, all progress is due to unreasonable men.



From: (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Erratum
Message-ID: <940831203113_100270.337_BHL29-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 31 Aug 94 20:31:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5983

Where I wrote:
	> As Plentonius was compiling and inventing *most* of the
	> material in the Glorious ReAscent...

please read:
	> As Plentonius was compiling and NOT inventing *most* of
	> the material in the Glorious ReAscent...

without which correction my thesis makes no sense. Sorry to interrupt your 
reading pleasure.