From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 01 Sep 1994, part 3
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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From: DevinC@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 31 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <9408311709.tn70420@aol.com>
Date: 31 Aug 94 21:09:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5984
Devin here:
Thanks to all who presented their take on the Flood. I still consider it
highly derivative...but understand it a bit better in any event.
Pam asks:
">In the Godtime there'd have been lions, too, but they're
>gone. All that is left are humans, morocanth, and hyenas.
Are there any aerial predators, like griffins or really big raptors?"
There seem to be condors and larger king condors, although I don't know how
far from Vultures Country and the Spires they range. Also, vrok hawks are
probably efficient predators viz a viz the smaller game.
I also imagine that towards the northern parts of Prax, trollkin become
something of a predatory force, as do giant insects that have wandered into
the Plains from Dagori Inkarth.
Regards,
Devin Cutler
devinc@aol.com
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From: jonsg@hyphen.com (Jon Green)
Subject: Hawking up
Message-ID: <3630.9409010001@diss.hyphen.com>
Date: 1 Sep 94 00:01:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5985
I appealed several weeks ago for any information relating to the link
between Yelmalio, Vrimak and Hawk Mother. No replies, fair enough.
I've now a mini-myth to explain what happened (and also a sub-scenario
/ mundane HQ relating to it) - if anyone's interested, email me
directly and I'll forward it. I'll summarise to the Daily after/if I
get feedback - I haven't enough background materials to be certain I'm
not stepping on other myths.
What I'm after now is this: my references for species of Hawk in
Glorantha are sketchy - RQ2 & 3 rules and the Bestiary. Has anyone
done anything in more detail? One of my PCs (a Yelmalian) is
developing a rather strong link with Hawk Mother and Her children, and
may just end up starting the Hero Path to Hawk Mother. Also, if there
are cult writeups anywhere for Vrimak and/or Hawk Mother I'd love to
read them. Thanks!
Jon
jonsg@diss.hyphen.com
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From: david_baur@cl_63smtp_gw.chinalake.navy.mil (David Baur)
Subject: Parry, Repost, I surrender.
Message-ID: <9409010045.AA28246@Sun.COM>
Date: 31 Aug 94 09:33:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5986
Parry, Repost, I surrender. 8/31/94 5:29
PM
Rolling the dice to determine which Dave I am for this posting (clunk thunk
clatter clunk smash pad pad). Rats!! I'm still Dave Baur.
David Dunham
============
In posting 5912, I Quote:
> I've always considered myself the Source of the David rune.
> 1. Gods of Glorantha is the source of information on rune Sources, > and I
am the only David mentioned therein.
> 2. Despite misidentification by an owner of the Obnoxious Pedant > rune, I
possess the David rune, not the debased form, the Dave
> rune.
Does this mean that you hold the David rune and an infinity rune as you are
the originator? (Just Kidding). This must mean I am a derivative Dave.
We'll worry about this later (I hope not).
Ian Gorlick & Cult Write-ups (while waiting for LoT)
========================================
Please include me on your mailing list for your cult descriptions.
Thank you
Alison Place & Disease
=================
Alison,
In your RQ Daily posting (5909), I believe you missed the thrust of my
posting and I think it was misinterpreted. I was actually saying that I have
not really thought about it and that I would like to be copied in on any
other thoughts as well (because it seemed interesting.
The reason I had assumed (stupid me) "too small to even be seen with a 1
POW" is for the following reasons:
1. Most things in RQ are spiritish in nature.
2. Disease spirits only have the POW attribute, not SIZ or CON (or even
APP, the disgusting little beasties). This means that they can only be
"large" or "small" in POW (or am I wrong in this).
3. Broos can cause disease by striking you with their incredibly foul
covered weapons.
3a. This foul covered weapon does not necessarily cast a cause disease
divine spell when it draws blood.
3b. This foul covered weapon does not necessarily have a disease spirit
bound to it. If the weapon did, it would have a one shot condition releasing
the spirit into the victim's body, but then it would not cause disease on the
next person as they do do.
3c. This goes along with RQ3's Book4 (Creature Book), p11 on Broos, where
in Issaries print it talks about Disease. (I Quote) Disease: Anyone wounded
by a disease-carrying broo is exposed to that broo's disease(s).
3d. I follow this out of book 1 (Players Book) pp81-82 where it covers
diseases. First paragraph makes a distinction between Broos and Harpies
carrying illnesses and wicked Shaman spreading diseases with disease spirits.
It then says that "Natural disease exists as strongly as in our own world."
4. If the weapon had a spirit large enough to see, then a Shaman (or
someone with second sight) would recognize immediately which weapons to avoid
at most costs. The fact that they don't do this does not mean that this
doesn't happen, only either no one has thought on it or previously cared.
This is why I believe the spirit is extremely small compared to the person
with the Second Sight.
We play that the "normal" (?) Disease spirits do as you say you said,
but we also play that the "Normal" disease is contracted when the player
fails the series of CON rolls for the infected character. I don't think this
is a modification of any RQ rules that I have or know about as you ask. As
far as spirit combat, well, we play with visible effect, after all, spirits
have to be visible to start their attack. We play that a person undergoing
spirit attack usually seems to have a "far away" look about them. The
character actually sees a contest of wills in a strangling match or
equivalent fight scene (Group preference).
I guess my viewpoint really reflects my Storm Khan's typical belief in
where all diseases come from (Broos!!!!!!! and CHAOS!! and Broos!!!!). This
still wasn't too satisfying to me as it obviously wasn't to you neither. Please
don't be surprised if I also like John Strauss' posting (5671) even though I
don't feel that it meets all of the conditions, it would be a good reason to
explain contagion (at least from my character's point of view). As to
spending time at healers or shaman's huts (some actually heal diseases
herbally), you have to ask others in my group for their stories.
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From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Vinga; Ralios trade; Hyena; Those Nasty Arrows
Message-ID: <199409010100.AA04170@radiomail.net>
Date: 1 Sep 94 01:00:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5987
Lots of discussion on Vinga, I see.
I agree with Lewis (not Jamie) that Vinga is a Jill of All Trades and a
master of none -- that was the gist of the myth I came up with.
>I speculate that Vinga's runes should be Mobility, Wind and Earth.
I seem to be outnumbered on this -- I use just Mobility and Air. But if
Greg treats her as an Orlanth subcult, does the Earth rune give her
anything? She shouldn't need to have the Earth rune to be able to deal with
snakes, frex.
As for Bryan's thought that she is Orlanth's sister, could be. I prefer her
being his daughter from a one-night stand, as always happens with mythic
heroes, but that hero could be Umath, I suppose.
I treat Vinga as a subcult as described by Alex (though I don't forget that
_I_ came up with the Wind Run spell :-). Except that I don't see
Vinga-specific temples (they do have their own separate shrine building in
the rambling Orlanth temple complex in Kilwin).
In my East Ralios, the canoe is one of the prime transports for trade (and
one reason that trade is the province of Doskior, the River God, not
Issaries, the Talking God). I'm not sure they have mules in the East Wilds
(they probably do in Vesmonstran, and certainly in Safelster).
Pam asks
>Do hyaenas have get respect from humans due to their association with the
>Trickster?
Since when do humans respect Tricksters?
Martin wonders
>how have the Morokanth managed to survive on the
>plain(e)s of Prax? Even the Bison and High Llama riders have
>some members with missile weapons. Against Zebra, Sable, or
>Impala riders, the Morokanth would seem to be so much toast. The
>mounted foes can keep their distance and prevent the Morokanth
>from escaping, meanwhile pincushioning our tapir-like friends.
That's what I've been whining about in the past; I've never gotten a really
good answer. Shields might work, but somehow seem very un-Morokanth (you've
got to lug a shield with you everywhere you go in case you get raided?).
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From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 31 Aug 1994
Message-ID: <9408311844.AA08102@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 31 Aug 94 06:44:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5975
Peter M.
>Umath appears to be born in Umathela.
Umath is in fact NOT born in Umathela. Umathela got its name
because it was invaded by beings from the North (presumably including
Umath, though the most famous invader is actually Qualyorn a.k.a.
Moorgark) and thus colonized and thus became like a little alcove of
Genertela inside Pamaltela's borders.
>I can't really say whether Mistress Calm is actually Brastalos or
>Molanni. Can someone clarify this for me?
It is my belief that Mistress Calm is _not_ Brastalos.
Molanni seems much likelier to me. Brastalos is the eye of the storm,
not calmness per se. Also, Molanni would seem to be a
desirable/useful deity for the Praxians, especially seeing as the
other main air gods of the region are Storm Bull and Gagarth, both of
which are less than benign and whip up hurtful sandstorms.
>Isn't the moon always full within the Glowline?
Surely the folks within the Empire have some way of seeing
their goddess's phases. Maybe it takes magical vision.
Martin Crim:
>Question: how have the Morokanth managed to survive on the
>plain(e)s of Prax? Even the Bison and High Llama riders have
>some members with missile weapons.
This is a perfectly plausible question that I've heard raised
elsewhere. I'll try to deal with it decisively in the following
essay.
In fact, two questions have been raised here. I'll deal with
the missile weapon question first. Missiles were _not_ the major arms
of most military forces until the late 17th century. Till then, when
muskets took over, missiles were only an adjunct to the main force
(even after, bayonets and sabers were still useful for almost two
centuries). A few armies (the pre-Mogul hindus, the Mongols,
Cromwell's New Model Army) were primarily missile-armed, but even for
them, the primary weapon was the impact of the lance, pike, or
another melee weapon. The Impala folk, the best missile-users of the
plains, can harass you to the point of madness, but their ineptness
at melee means they can rarely actually _win_ a decisive victory,
just pinprick the enemy until he finally gives up and leaves in
disgust.
That aside, the Morocanth still have a serious tactical
problem. First off, they're dismounted. A morocanth vs. a Sable Rider
is a pretty unequal battle. The Sable kicks and butts, while the
rider throws javelins or uses a spear and it's not a pretty sight.
High Llamas and Bisons are even more of a mismatch. And, of course,
while I've denigrated missile weapons above, it's actually pretty
important to have _some_ missiles within your tactical mix. Finally,
the Morocanth are slower than animal cavalry; the beast riders can
disengage almost at will.
So how do the Morocanth survive? As co-author of Praxpack,
I've done some thinking on this. And here are my answers.
ONE) the Morocanth are less-raided than the other tribes --
no one wants _their_ herds. Herd men are poor milk-givers, breed
slowly, and worse of all slow down your herd to a comparative crawl.
Not only that, but they're rather gruesome to eat, and most Praxians
are picky enough to refrain from eating herd man unless faced with
starvation. Not only that, but you can't be sure you're eating a
_real_ herd man. Everyone knows that the Morocanth use dark magics to
transform people into animals. So the main purpose in raiding the
Morocanth is to harass and kill Morocanth (a praiseworthy endeavor,
but hardly profitable) or to re-capture herd beasts from _other_
tribes that the Morocanth have captured in the past. All in all,
they're the least-economical tribe in the plains to raid. This
ecological edge should never be dismissed.
TWO) the Morocanth have some advantages over the nomads --
one is that they're _not_ mounted. The Morocanth are experts at
stealth and concealment, skills practically unusable by nomads. (In
essence, where a nomad has a Ride of 90%, a Morocanth would have a
Hide of 90%.) A typical Morocanth attack consists of a leap from
ambush, quick hamstringing of steeds, and then slaughter of the
dismounted riders. They are experts at concealment -- lurking under a
thin layer of sand, inside a hollowed-out bush, etc. The Morocanth
are, of course, detested for this "unfair" method of warfare, and
most especially for their tactics, which are aimed directly at
knocking down the mounts first. Other nomads rarely aim at your
riding beast, if only because they'd like to capture it. But the
Morocanth -- pfui!
THREE) their herds can go places that hoofed ungulates cannot
handle. Morocanth regularly set up shop deep within marshes that herd
beasts would get bogged-down in, or atop steep plateaus that they
(and herd-men) can climb, but that no four-footed animal could
navigate (maybe a mountain goat could, but the Praxian ungulates are
plains beasts). Herd men can climb, and they can negotiate bogs, and
they are small enough to live in a cave. They can do all sorts of
things that ungulates can't, and the Morocanth take full advantage.
It is rare for a party of nomads to even be able to _find_ a
Morocanth camp, let alone raid it. Even when the Morocanth take over
an oasis, their herd men are safer than a normal tribe's -- the
Morocanth simply put their "beasts" inside the adobe huts. Since most
huts have roof-entries, this isn't available to the nomads, only the
Morocanth.
FOUR) Herd men, while primarily vegetarian, can also eat
grubs, rodents, dig up roots, climb trees to get the fruit or
sleeping bats at the top, and so forth, so are more adaptable than
Sables & co. Also, herd men eat and drink a lot less than ungulates,
so they can survive sieges or harsh environments. (When nomads set
"siege" to a Morocanth base, usually their own beasts give out before
the Morocanth's). In addition, herd men, like humans, have a lot of
stamina. (Apaches used to capture wild horses by running them down on
foot-- the horses were fast, but couldn't keep going forever, so as
long as the apache brave kept trotting and trotting and ... it took
about 3 days to wear down the horse to the point you could catch it.)
Thus, the Morocanth, when on the move, can travel both day and night,
wearing down their "beasts" in a way that would be unendurable for
Impalas or High Llamas. Hence, on a forced march, they can cover
about the same distance as the other tribes (but not tactically, of
course). The only real disadvantage of the herd men physiologically
is that they need a steady supply of water, whereas most of the
Praxian ungulates can go without for a couple of days at a time. But
at least when water is available, the herd men don't need as much.
Another advantage of the herd men is that they're smarter and more
cooperative than other herd beasts. When herd men are attacked by
coyotes or hyenas, they respond by fighting back as a group -- both
males and females wield sticks as clubs, throw rocks, use clubs, etc.
The result is that herd men suffer much less from predators than
other herd beasts. Herd men also live much longer than ungulates, and
have a much longer breeding period. All these factors partially make
up for their general inferiority as a herd beast. _However_ these
herd man advantages are generally only useful if you keep them in a
large band -- so do not apply to captured specimens.
FIVE) the Morocanth are fearsome in melee. They are the most
heavily-armored warriors of Prax, with 4-point natural skin, plus
whatever armor they cobble together (normally comparable to other
Praxians' armor -- minimum of 2-point leather over vitals). In
addition, they are large and strong, and know martial arts. In
hand-to-hand combat, only the Agimori can stand up to a Morocanth.
Their spells are, of course, designed to maximize their combat power
(Protection, Clawsharp, Mobility). In melee combat, an experienced
Morocanth that gets the drop on any of the Praxian animals (with the
possible exception of a rhino) can cripple or kill it in one round,
then cripple or kill the rider in another round. The problem for the
Morocanth is "getting the drop".
SIX) the Morocanth are nocturnal. While they don't have
Darksense, their night vision is far superior to any humans. Most
fights with the Morocanth take place at night, when most of the
nomads' advantages are canceled or at least lessened. Certainly their
vaunted missile fire is next to worthless. During the day they hide
in their nearly-inaccessible lairs. But the night is hunting time.
IN SUMMARY: the Morocanth don't fight or behave like the
other nomads. They don't mass together in bands to engage in raids,
nor do they camp in large open areas with good visibility, stationing
guards around their vulnerable herds. Instead, when you're in
Morocanth country, small bands of Morocanth burst out of the night to
kill riding beasts or capture one single guard and carry him off to
their dark dens. When you finally find the Morocanth den it might be
a cliff-dwelling where your own animals can't climb, so you have to
clamber up sans beasts while herd men roll boulders down. Or you must
lead your beasts wading through muck, trying to find the Morocanth
lair in the bog.
These things don't mean that the Morocanth are immune to the
nomads nor that they aren't sometimes killed in droves. Obviously if
you can catch a Morocanth in the open during daylight, he's easy
meat. But they _do_ have advantages over the nomads, and they're
smart enough to use 'em. In a way, the Morocanth are to the nomads as
the nomads are to the Sartarite or Lunar warriors -- irksome
skirmishers, cowards who won't stand up to a fair fight.
If the Morocanth behaved like other nomads, they'd be extinct
by now. Their herds and their biology render them unfit for such a
course of action. This, of course, exacerbates the differences
between them and the other nomads and increasingly sets them apart.
But that's a small price to pay for survival in the Wastes.
Pam Carlson, asking about Praxian predators:
>Are there any aerial predators, like griffins or really big raptors?
Only within a hundred miles or so of the Rockwoods or Plateau
of Statues, or River of Cradles cliffs, or other places where they
could safely nest. The vast bulk of the Wastes are safe from such. We
know that there are enormous condors in the River of Cradles, but
I've not heard of giant eagles. Griffins make a hell of a lot of
sense, from the Rockwoods. I suspect giant eagles in the Shan Shan
side of the Wastes, since the so-called "Eagle Hsunchen" (i.e., wind
children) are known there, so presumably there's eagles, too. Even
ordinary eagles would be able to take down an impala or sable calf.
Hyenas: Yes, I know they're not canids. Hyaenidae. Placed "between"
dogs and cats, but they're not so much a missing link as Something
Else Entirely.
>Do hyaenas have get respect from humans due to their association
>with the Trickster?
I can't help but think this is a kind of non sequitur, Pam.
"Respect"? because of a relationship with TRICKSTER?!??!
I think that the Praxians have special stories about all the
animals of the plains: jackrabbits, hawks, ravens, etc. Hyenas, as
especially-important, have more major stories, and may be likelier to
be a shaman's totem than, say, a pack rat.
Known Animals of the Central Wastes
Wild or feral specimens (who can tell?) of the following:
high llamas, impalas, bison, rhinos, sables, ostriches.
Small zebras. Jackrabbits. Hyenas.
Hawks (I like to think of them as Harris Hawks, which are
cool, because they're the only hawks that hunt cooperative -- in
packs. Probably other hawks known here, too.)
Ground-nesting desert ravens. Thieving bastards.
Pack rats.
Desert foxes.
Some kind of canid -- either wild dogs or jackals or coyotes.
After all, the Praxians have dogs. I vote for coyotes and think that
the Praxian hounds are often coydogs.
I DON'T think there's any wild herd men, bolo lizards, or large
zebras.
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