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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 06 Sep 1994, part 2
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From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Vinga, Bless Earth
Message-ID: <9409051923.AA14193@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 5 Sep 94 19:23:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6059
Alison Place:
> For instance, I
> don't think that Vinga would be scared to marry if she met a man who
> pleased her sufficiently. He would just have to take her as she is,
> with a propensity for independence, self-reliance and doing what she
> thinks fit for her.
Let's all recall that while the Orlanthi "norm" is for the husband to
take the "lead" role in marriage (wife lives in husband's stead,
children are of his clan, etc), it's not hardwired that way, and the
roles explitly _can_ be reversed. BTW, David D., I assume that what
you say about Ralian wives in re: geasa also hold true for "Esrolian"
type marriages (or "Wife and underhusband", whatever those ones are
called), and equally doesn't hold for the wife in such cases.
> To reply to Alex Ferguson (5956), our festival ended up on Aldrya's day
> in a roundabout way. Ian mixed up Bless Crops, or Bless Earth, or
> whatever it's called, with Sunripen, which must be cast on that day.
Due to the vagueness of the RQ3 cult writeup ("spring", indeed: is this
a RQ-Earth escapee, Sandy?), I'm not sure whether Sunripen is supposed
to be cast on Voria's HHD, Freeze/Disorder/Sea (first day of Sea
season), or on Flamal's HHD, Water/Fertility/Sea. Could sensibly be
either really.
Part of my motivation in querying this is that I don't see Aldrya ::
agriculture as being a very natural connection. Possible, granted, as
part of the planting ritual may be "placating" the earth spirits on
whom you're about to inflict this hideous plague of monoculture. This
holds less true of Flamal, though, as he's less woodland-specific, even
if the elves are his main (organised) worshippers.
Alex.
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Don't tell a soul...
Message-ID: <9409052001.AA14453@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 5 Sep 94 20:01:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6060
Sam Shirley leaks:
> Chaosium's official internet address in chaosium@aol.com. Please do not
> give out the chaosium@[censored] address.
I hope this wasn't a Big Secret, given that it's just been posted to (and
indeed from) a mailing list, which is in turn gatewayed to The Whole Internet
by news...
Alex.
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Potholing.
Message-ID: <9409060231.AA15161@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 6 Sep 94 02:31:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6062
Argrath@aol.com makes potshots, not contributions:
> Alex fumbles his Animal Lore roll in reply to Joerg's statement--
> >> What I mean is that the beasts of Ygg's isles are [moose]
> >Is this plausible for a bunch of small, isolated islands? Not
> >many Alces alces on the shetlands, are there?
> Gigantism is common on islands.
True, but fairly irrelevant. What we have(n't) here is a large, nomadic,
herd-living animal, in a place on the tiny side, in a northerly and dismal
enough place to be on the less-than-optimally-lush side. Furthermore, the
issue is whether a given animal should be there in the first place, not
whether the local version is of unusual size. If the adjoining bit of
Fronela (I forget how far off-coast it is) has moose on it, then that's
somewhat different.
> Dunno anything about the Shetlands
It's the place with the gigantic ponies.
> >Bryan J. Maloney asserts:
> >> First, Bless Earth is necessary to merely get a "normal" crop
> >>in Genertela.
> At the Gloranthan lore auction, Greg and Sandy said something
> pretty close to this.
Guess that gives about a 40% chance of "something close to this" being
True, then.
Nick Eden:
> And its worth remembering that the flood myth turns up everywhere.
Should we also mention that Being Nailed to a Death Rune is also one of the
Monomyth's Gateway steps of a HeroQuest?
> Fortuneately I'm not a Jung or Cambell acolyte. but I know
> a man who is....
Who, Greg? Partly, but let's not forget FGS is also a fully paid-up
shamanist, and so actually Believes This Stuff (or some thereof).
Joerg on Vinga, and some cultic pot-shots of his own:
> With the myths, I always want a
> one true version for myself, and a malleable basic set to adapt for all
> the local variations.
What practicable difference is there between the "true" myths and the others?
If it makes a difference, why would anyone go for the false ones? If it
doesn't, why do you need to know?
> This is our inheritance from Cults of Prax, I'm afraid. CoP did the
> marvelous job of explaining both the local phenomena and some world-wide
> effects of the cults, in much more detail than we do now for Vinga, but
> it failed to say which bits were open to variation.
Given the appearance of the words "of Prax" on the cover, one might say
all of it. Granted this is to simplify, as it tends to veer erratically
between the local and the global in places.
> Also (Alex, reply in private, if at all!) the apparent fixation to one
> deity per cult seems to stem from this supplement.
What a shock. The first thing to describe cults in any detail is the
source of their "fixation".
> The tendency to blame the fixed and uniform cult structure of CoP (and
> even RQ3) on the God Learners is just an attempt to incorporate this
> rules construct into the world. IMO it is misplaced for Prax, a God
> Learner forgotten place if there are any.
Prax is a pretty small place, though, certainly in terms of population, and
cultural distinctiveness. Within a given Nation or Tribe, I'd be surprised
if there was more variation per cult than the odd spell. Over a wider scope,
it becomes much more questionable whether one cult writeup realistically
serves for, say, Ralios and Prax.
> As to Vinga's identity: If you try to apply linguistics
She's a lighthouse?
> Vinga seems to be a likely candidate to be the (twin?) sister of Vingkot
Makes sense to me. Maybe KoS doesn't give her genealogy because she's
"only" a hero, who established the Woman's Warrior Path among the early
Orlanthi, rather than a Real God(TM).
> Look forward to our next meeting - this time archery. You had your
> chance in the contest of swords (well, clubs).
I'll bring my scoped Winchester.
> > the Monarch of the Glen, not majestic?
> Most of all, we lack the scenery here on the Cimbrian peninsula to
> make him look majestic.
Cimbrian, Cambrian, Cumbrian, is there a God Learner unification to be made
here? They all seem to have red deer, too. Yup, granted you need the
scenery to Pose against.
> Routinely entering the woods with bow and arrow
> (for archery tournaments only, hunting must be done with firearms in
> Germany) makes one think of it as prey rather than as a monarch, too.
Deer are hunted and indeed, culled, here too, but it doesn't unduly damage
the perception.
Alex.
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: hsunchen! Bless you.
Message-ID: <9409060522.AA15187@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 6 Sep 94 05:22:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6063
> ian i. gorlick said
> >Moose hsunchen should be regarded as somewhat more excitable than Storm
> >Bull berserkers with even less concern for personal safety.
David Dunham:
> This raises the question of whether hsunchen are just like their totems. I
> think not. They do bear many resemblences, but they are first and foremost
> people, and secondly omnivorous hunter-gatherers. Moose are neither.
I think of hsunchen as having broadly two kinds of attitudes towards their
totems. One group beleives the they and their animal are essentially the
same people, who just coincidentally have differing numbers of legs. The
Telmori seem to think this way. Others draw a greater distinction, saying
instead that these animals have special souls, which may be the "recycled"
souls of their answers, or that they are some kind of tutelatory spirit.
In both cases I think the hsunchen regard the behaviour and characteristics
of the totem as Good, and as being Just Like Us.
Where the totem animal is also the main prey of a group, these attitudes may
be significantly different, but I don't think this relationship is usual for
hsunchen.
Alex.
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: (C) [TM]
Message-ID: <9409060525.AA15194@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 6 Sep 94 05:25:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6064
> Copyright August 94 by Joerg Baumgartner (is this ok with you, Alex?).
You're getting better, but mentioning the century is traditional, and
putting it in the middle of an article is a bit confusing.
Alex.
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Some ideas on Rune Magic
Message-ID: <9409060549.AA15208@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 6 Sep 94 05:49:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6065
Curtis Shenton suggests:
> A worshipper sacrifices POW into a pool of Rune Power that they
> can draw upon later. But the only spells they can cast are those they
> have earned through various minihero quests. For example for an Orlanthi
> to get Darkwalk they need to steal something from a Kygor Liter
> worshipper.
This is rather like what Henk suggested, I think. I certainly agree with
the HQ component, though I saw it as being more of a ritual one. I like
the practice HQ idea too, though, especially for "subcultic" spells for
which you'd have to prove yourself worthy (more so than usual, that is)
such as the aforementioned Darkwalk. However, I also think the act is
significant enough that it should require POW to be sacrificed, which should
probably be specific to that magic.
In fact, I think the existing RQ rules have sacrificing for a spell the
first time about right. What I dislike is all this yucky business with
"taking several uses" of a spell, as we'd say in the Bad Old Days when
I played D&D. Not just from a MGF point of view, but because doing the
same heroquest again doesn't make sense, Gloranthanically. As the old
Esrolian proverb says, "The same woman cannot swim in the River twice".
> And some
> spells you may just get access to because becoming an initiate of the
> cult attunes you to some of the basics of the gods power. I suspect all
> Orlanthi would be able to cast Cloud Call under this system for example.
I don't know about that, but it should be remembered that initiation is
an HQ in itself, so the possibility at least exists...
Alex.
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Molanni
Message-ID: <9409060559.AA15217@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 6 Sep 94 05:59:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6066
Nick Eden:
> For the next issue of my fanzine I'm developing a Molani cult.
> The central idea is that she is a wonderful noble self sacrificing
> goddess who sacrificed her chastity to Yelm, her people's enemy, so that
> Yelm and Orlanth would have something in common.
[...]
> Naturally this isn't the way the story is traditionally told in Dragon
> Pass. This is the Molani that the Lunar missionaries tell the people
> about in captured lands.
I think Nick's basically Correct, here, though I think the Lunars would
soft-pedal it a bit more. At the risk of straying into the
Entekos/Molanni debate, I'd think the Lunars would borrow freely from
the former's cult when constructing the latter's, adapting it to fit
Molanni's mythology and any existing Orlanthi worship of her.
> Up to the foundation of this cult, about 100-200 years ago, as a means of
> annoying the Orlanthi that the Lunars were competing with to the south, I
> don't think that Molani would have been worshiped in any way.
Not quite true, I don't think. I think she may have received
propitiatory worship, as well as being invoked by nasty types on their
enemies. Nothing like a proper "cult" though, I'd agree.
Alex.
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: The Blue Wizard strikes in vain
Message-ID:
Date: 6 Sep 94 06:03:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6067
The Blue Wizard Peter Metcalfe in X-RQ-ID: 6037
> My attempts at exigesis make me think that Minaryths history is more acurate
> than the history in the CHDP. He was writing from year to year on the most
> important thing that happened that year.
Not necessarily. IMO he collected his memories and connected each event or
cluster of events to a date. In doing so, he might have associated events
that occured in one season to one entry, but events three seasons apart
can well be confused with events in separate years, especially if viewed
in hindsight.
> 1) Moraides dies in 1631 ST. The scribe wrote 'lived' where he should have
> written 'ruled'.
This agrees roughly with the Sartar section of CHDP. Pharandros is
mentioned as king for 1632, so no problem there. However, for the 1625
events the Sartar section of CHDP blames Moirades, not Pharandros.
> 2) Neither Moraides, Sartar nor Tarkalor were ever Kings of Dragon Pass.
I have tried to convince Peter in private that this is nonsense, but
I'd appreciate some help by others doing so in private.
> 3) Illaro died in attempting to become the King of Dragon pass. As a result in
> tarsh, Coitus interruptus is known as Illaroism.
Illaro died as part of the seven-year-king ritual introduced by the
bloody earth cult of Old Tarsh. Their cult seems to combine worship
of Maran Gor and Kero Fin in that they use the destructive earth aspects
of Maran Gor in battle, yet they also receive fertility from this worship
through the sacrifice of their sacred kings _or their challengers_. Maybe
we have to invent the male subcult of the sacrificial king for the earth
cultists as the bearer of Fertility and Death. A very different form of
Orlanth Rex...
According to the currently prevalent theory about the demise of the
Pharaoh, the old Esrolite Earth worship had a similar, but annual, ritual,
which had been taken upon himself by Belintar (who thereby became the
reusable Year King and de facto ruler of Esrolia), until he was slain
irreversibly in one of these annual sacrifices (1616) by Jar-eel. Jar-eel
could use the proven methods of her quasi-ancestress Hon-eel who did the
same to the last Illaro king of Tarsh. It isn't recorded whether Palashee
Long-axe took up this custom again, but considering his origin, it is
highly likely, and unlikely that anyone could best him.
For a non-Gloranthan version of this kind of sacrificial kingship read
Poul and Karen Anderson's "King of Ys" series.
> 4) Any idea that the Ilaro dynasty of Tarsh practiced a sacrifical reign of
> seven years is complete crap. For an idea of what really happened,
> calculate how old Marofdul must have been at the time of his fathers death.
Since we have no date of birth, and marriage among Orlanthi occurs between
age 15 and age 20, Marofdul could have been just 18 years younger than his
father.
> 5) Part six of the Argrath Saga is actually a fusion of two seperate phases.
> One pulls down the Red Moon and the other is connected to another fragment
> in the book. Ask yourself this: Why does Argrath send for help from the
> six directions when His gods are already walking with him?
To reenact the monster-slaying quest, in which the Storm gods always
summoned help from all directions.
> 6) The Feathered Queen of the Kerofini temple is not the same as the feathered
> horse queen. To become King of Dragon Pass does not entail marrying them.
Another bit of wild speculation I try to hammer out of Peter's mailings.
The Kero Fin temple would not have a _feathered_ queen. Peter seems to
ignore p.113 of KoS, where it is stated that the leader of the Grazer
wives' cult (La-ungariant in her aspect as horse, i.e. Arandayla) went
deep into the earth and returned with powers alien to the Solar horse
people. These powers were the powers of Kero Fin, whose avatar the
Feathered Horse Queen had become in her heroquest. The former avatar,
Sorana Tor, had been changed to Maran Gor and could no longer grant
the fertility of the kingdom after Hon-eel had stolen these powers for
the Lunars.
> 7) Argrath had nothing to do with the Awakening of the Brown Dragon.
> By Argrath, I mean Argrath Venharlson who later became Prince Argrath in 1631
> ST.
This includes two statements of Peter: the first statement he makes is
that Argrath wasn't one of the seven dancers. Given that Argrath has
a reputation to be a dragonfriend, and versed in EWF magics, he would be
a likely candidate to participate in this ritual. As CHDP says, some of
them prayed (e.g. Minaryth Purple), some of them concentrated (Orlaront),
and some of them killed. Garrath Sharpsword of Pavis seems the ideal
candidate for the latter category.
However, Peter goes even further and denies any friendly connection
between Argrath and both Minaryth and Orlaront prior to his enthronement.
Peter argues that Minaryth was known as a staunch supporter of Kallyr in
the 1613 rebellion, and that both Minaryth and Orlaront are mentioned
as Kallyr's companions in the 1625 short LBQ.
IMO this only indicates that both Minaryth and Orlaront are good Sartarite
patriots who lend a hand to whoever tries to free the land.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Trade notes
Message-ID:
Date: 6 Sep 94 06:43:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6068
Martin Crim comments & quibbles on Gerald's Trade Notes in X-RQ-ID: 6043
> Take the Gemborg dwarves as an example. Obviously, they're
> Openhandists, to be dealing with humans at all--or are they?.
They are documented as the only part of the Decamony to maintain
friendly ties to the declared apostates of Greatway and surrounding
areas during the Second Council and Nysalor's reign in Kethaela.
IMO this makes them quite openhanded for that era. Since dwarves are
long-lived and stubborn, they still might be.
> They could pursue some other policy, not yet a heresy. What do
> they want from humans, and why?
> Gerald mentions trollish products at a couple of places.
> Silk, I'd wager, though not as fine as the Kralorelan variety.
Spider silk, possibly, for ropes and working cloth (sails, God
Forgot parachutes...)
> Gems, as one would expect
> from a subterranean race, and they would not value visually-
> beautiful gems as much as humans would. Insect products aside
> from silk could include carapaces, honey, royal jelly, acids, ham
> beetles ("taste like chicken"), and paper (from wasps). There
> are also fungus products, like the black elf potions.
I doubt that the trolls trade much foodstuff (gems included) away,
except in exchange for more or tastier foodstuff. Troll-human trade seems
to be a risky business to both sides involved, and Dagori Inkarth is as
backwater for traders as is Prax. Adari and Pavis are the main trade
centres for the whole region. Kethaela and Ralios might have more
regular trade contacts. In the Lunar Empire, trade with trolls would
occur more civilized, too. Ignorance probably buys trollkin regularly
from Koromondol.
> I think the Praxians export herd beasts, almost always those
> which have been captured in raids.
Plus the weakest of their own type of beast, to keep the herds healthy.
> Maniria: is this really the third richest area in Genertela,
> ahead of Fronela and Seshnela? Is that based on total GNP,
> median family wealth, or what?
If there is any unit able to measure wealth, it would be the Lunar
"Taxable Wealth Before Exemptions", which would include nobles' property,
privileges etc which usually aren't taxed. To compare populations, TWBE
could be divided by head count, although there still is the question
which heads to count. If the Lunar slave population or the Ramalian,
Tanisoran, Jonatelan or Kingdom of War serfs are included in the population
count, this average is lowered considerably.
> Pent: do Pentans trade their sacred horses? I don't think
> so.
Liek the Praxians, I think they'd be willing to part with the weaker
specimen, to keep the breed pure. And like the Praxians they'd be
more willing to trade raided beasts (probably after having used them
for breeding).
> Kralorela: is Lokarnos big there?
He certainly has no trade monopoly, as the example of a certain
trade buckles salesman shows.
> According to G:CHW,
> Kralorela follows the Eastern pantheon, which (according to GoG)
> does not include Lokarnos. So their merchants do not have a cult
> to call their own, but that doesn't seem to be a big handicap.
They can claim the current emperor as one of their number, so
there is little need for a special deity. Godunya's bridges are
a manifestation of his Communication aspect as well.
> Altogether, not many comments on what was 26 pages of
> material when I printed it out. It not only goes into the
> directory of permanently-saved items, it got printed out, hole-
> punched, and put into a notebook! Many thanks, Gerald.
I can only add my voice to the chorus of praises.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: oops...
Message-ID: <9409060718.AA19087@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 6 Sep 94 08:18:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6069
> From RuneQuest-Request@glorantha Tue Sep 6 09:16 MET 1994
> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 09:15:25 +0200
> Message-Id: <9409060715.AA14204@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
> From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
> To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
> Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
> Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 06 Sep 1994, part 1
> Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland
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> X-RQ-ID: Intro
>
> This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
> the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
> world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
> format.
>
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