Bell Digest v940909p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 09 Sep 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk

X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest
format.

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.

X-RQ-ID: index

6108:  = 
 - Re: change of subject from graoy, moose, deer to...
6109:  = 
 - Kalikos Icebreaker
6110:  = 
 - The Blue Wizard says sorry.
6111:  = 
 - The legend of Arkat and Kaxtor
6112:  = 
 - Identifying magic items
6113:  = 
 - This, that and Viv.
6114:  = 
 - (Chaos?) armour, Chaos clensing, General C. H. Aos
6115:  = 
 - Duck cults
6116:  = 
 - Chaos taints
6117:  = 
 - ...about gods unseen...
6120:  = 
 - Goodness GRoYtious, I god a duck...
6121:  = 
 - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 08 Sep 1994
6122:  = 
 - The Cult of Vinga
6123:  = 
 - Jrustela
6124:  = 
 - Cult requests
6125:  = 
 - Hikym? Where
6126:  = 
 - Praxians, Solar musings
6127:  = 
 - Rumors of my death, etc, etc.
6128:  = 
 - Reaching Moon MegaCorp North America Limited News
6129:  = 
 - This dwarfism thing
6130:  = 
 - Giant electric penguins
6131:  = 
 - Request for Trade Notes

---------------------

From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: change of subject from graoy, moose, deer to...
Message-ID: <9409080803.AA25910@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 8 Sep 94 09:03:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6108

MOB:

>  [...] The thing that interested me the most [...] has been the
>speculation that Morokanth park for the night on top of Prarie Dog
>colonies so raiding nomads risk breaking their mounts legs.  Now that's
>something I can do things with!

> [...] I flicked through the endless discussions about various types of
>deers and mooses of late with increasingly torpid disinterest.  Let's
>move onto something else (are there lemming hsunchen in Glorantha?)

Prairie Dog hsunchen?
-- 
Henk	|	Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[]	|	RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
	|	x15338		-- ask me about /etc/rc2.d/S80lpconfig

---------------------

From: Lynne.Clayton@bhein.rel.co.uk (Clayton, Lynne)
Subject: Kalikos Icebreaker
Message-ID: <9408087790.AA779044527@reedel1.bhein.rel.co.uk>
Date: 8 Sep 94 08:15:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6109





********************* Paul Honigmann here...not Lynne ***********************


I am currently running a campaign where the PCs are interacting with members of 
the -Kalikos Icebreaker- cult. (Oh yes you are...and stop reading this!).
Can anyone tell me where info. on this cult can be found? or has anyone got any 
ideas about it, particularly why and how this cult is so good at dealing with 
ice demons .... that is ,why they are better than other cults which have fire 
magic for example. 



Also, Ian Gorlick please, please, pretty please, send me your notes on Thanatar 
and Vivamort care of Lynne's email address.Thanks


Paul

---------------------

From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: The Blue Wizard says sorry.
Message-ID: <01HGVV4PHQMQFGWNHQ@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 9 Sep 94 09:54:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6110

Sorry about the snafu I made with the digest on  the 8th.  
I was a bit tired and had a mindfade.

--Peter Metcalfe

---------------------

From: Mike.Dickison@vuw.ac.nz
Subject: The legend of Arkat and Kaxtor
Message-ID: <199409080956.AA13091@rata.vuw.ac.nz>
Date: 9 Sep 94 09:56:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6111

This is my THIRD attempt to get this to the Daily (New Zealand-Holland
communications seem to be worse than ever, though that hasn't hindered my
compatriot the Blue Wizard). Things seem to be working better now, so I'll
try again. This is part of my version of Kaxtorplose, based solely on the
few paragraphs of published material. If folks like it, I'll forward some
more.

The Legend of Kaxtor and Arkat

Long before the sinking of Slontos, Kaxtorplose was a small village with no
name at the bottom of a seacliff. One earth season, the bedraggled remains
of a great army arrived at the village square. At their head was a sorely
wounded nobleman, on a lame mule. He told the villagers, "I am the mighty
wizard Kaxtor Unbending. This is the Clean Thinking Army. Give me refuge!
Give me sustenance! Give me horses, mead and pillows!"

Replied the village wise man, "Patience, noble sir. Your wants shall be
satisfied in time." But Kaxtor Unbending pulled the wise man's head from
his body, and the villagers ran to do his bidding.

And so the hero Kaxtor took refuge at the village with no name during the
terrible days of the Brightness Wars. A sanctuary for the wounded man was
created in a cave on the cliff face, attainable only by a secret path.
Slowly Kaxtor's warriors were defeated and his power declined, until all
that remained of the Clean Thinking Army were the loyal commoners who
sheltered him. Closer and closer to the nameless village came the gibbering
horde of the Bright Ones. The fishers girded themselves for battle.

But then one dark season the conqueror Arkat Swordson and his followers
came to the village square. Arkat met Kaxtor as an equal, and declared
himself an ally and friend. Kaxtor said to Arkat, "I am the vengeful
warrior Kaxtor Unbending. We are besieged by the Iron Man. Give me
soldiers! Give me armour! Give me swords, supplies and coursers!"

Replied mighty Arkat, "Patience, noble sir. Your wants shall be satisfied
in time." He promised the Unbending a thousand men-at-arms on his return,
and rode off before the furious Kaxtor could reply.

News came to the villagers of how Arkat was laying waste to the
bright-helmed troops of the Iron Man. Travellers said that soon the
Swordson would move on east to continue his crusade, and leave Slontos free
and at peace. Kaxtor knew that the liberated land would need a strong and
righteous ruler, unafraid to purge the Bright and keep the law. The
villagers wondered how they would live without Kaxtor there to watch over
them.

And then one storm season the victorious Arkat the Liberator and his
counsellors returned to the village square. With him were a thousand men,
but they were the crippled veterans of Arkat's crusade, with wives and
scars and no stomach for war. So Kaxtor said to Arkat, "I am the forespoken
ruler Kaxtor Unbending! I can best govern this land and these people. Give
me robes! Give me vassals! Give me stewardship of Slontos!"

Replied wise Arkat, "Patience, noble sir. Your wants shall be satisfied in
time." And he suggested they retreat to the Sanctuary to discuss the matter
further, to which Kaxtor angrily assented.

The two great men debated far into the night, and were still speaking at
Yelm's rising.  They talked on through the day, and argued over their
evening victuals. And so they conferred for a further six days, shunning
their servants and aides. On the seventh day Arkat came forth, told the
wise woman that Kaxtor was at rest, and rode from the village. The
Unbending remained cloistered for a fortnight, refusing all water and food,
and the villagers prayed for his health and good demeanour.

And then on the first day of Sea Season the humble Kaxtor Farseeing
shuffled into the village square. Supporting him were his Cleanthinkers
Five, the first Bringer, and the Founder Elucidator, those who had ever
been loyal to the hero. And Kaxtor said to all, "I am the manatee of serene
stepping. I bestow fruit and nine yellow dragonteeth. Blow, water. Praise
good lintels. Crumble pride in happy batter."

Said the Elucidator, "Patience is rewarded. His wants have been satisfied
in time." A thousand men bowed to the service of Kaxtor. The holybirds
sang. So was our city founded.


Mike Dickison   \  If an infinite number of rednecks, in an infinite number
Science writer   \     of pickup trucks, fire an infinite number of shotgun
Wellington, N.Z.               rounds at an infinite number of highway signs,
adzebill@matai.vuw.ac.nz    \  they will eventually produce all the world's
(Thanx to J. Banker, Ariz.!) \             great literary works in Braille.



---------------------

From: niwe@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Identifying magic items
Message-ID: <9409081139.AA12246@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 8 Sep 94 15:39:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6112

Nils Weinander writing

Lots of suggestions how to identify magic stuff, some useful,
some rather interesting...

Loren writes:
>2. Take it to a Lhankor Mhy temple and get them to identify
>it. Obviously, this isn't going to be affordable for most homeless
>adventurers.

In most campaigns I have participated in, the PCs have had a strange
ability to stumble over lots of interesting stuff, so good trade
relations with the local LM temple usually evolve. We find something
which needs identification, so we take it to the LM temple and get
it identified in exchange for information about the things we
have done + the items we deem useless to us.
_____

I'll really try to stop writing about moose from now on. But if I
do find an angle to get some of them into the Dara Happan mythos,
then I could kill two birds with one stone and combine two really
annoying threads (according to an increasing number of readers)
into one completely meaning-less megathread! :-)
_____

/Nils W

---------------------

From: swj@liverpool.ac.uk (Mr S.W. Jones)
Subject: This, that and Viv.
Message-ID: <199409081210.NAA18712@uxh.liv.ac.uk>
Date: 8 Sep 94 14:10:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6113

	I'd like to add my voice to chorus of taking the GRAoY discussion
off line, oh, and the in depth articles on gigantism and dwarfism, whilst
I'm sure they are very well thought out/ researched etc. Well they're
dull. Sorry, but they bring a yawn.
	I did have some questions for the Daily though, having recieved
Ian Gorlick's Viv and Than write-up's, a few things occurred to me.
	1) How do the initiates see in the Vivamort temple's, I figured that
a Darkness deity wouldn't be keen on torches- so without these, there's gonna
be a lot of initiates with bruised knees, to say the least. My theory is that
owing to the large amount of time spent as initiates, before achieving 
immortality, they spend their time growing accustomed to the dark, in prayer
and comtemplation of the Void, perhaps pacing the confines of the temple 
complex, remembering that vampires cannot be effectively physically constrained.
Well that's my thought's, I know there's the sorcery spell Glow, but that 
doesn't seem appropriate, and besides I dislike RQ sorcery.
	I might also add, that I like the idea of study in the temple (of cult
history etc) to be conducted by light, symbolic of Viv's wounding by light,
using alsorts of nasty waxes for candles, skull holders etc. etc., ending the
study with the ritual annihilation of the flames, what do you think?
	2) Having dealt with Viv, what about Cacodemon, he's got the Darkness
Rune too, what about  Ogre's, they can't see in the dark can they?
	3) How about broo's, they're the ubiquitous chaos nasties, can they
not see, or do they have improved night vision. I ask this because it's seems
so much more atmospheric to fight broo at night, when they are only half seen,
and if they can't see, (remembering the advantages and confusion in a night  
attack) having broo stumbling and falling over, well, it's just not 
dignified (it's not frightening either- I've had a group point out that the 
broo couldn't see either, the ruling meant the broo spent more time on the 
ground that fighting).
	Idea's and comments welcome.
	Stupendous Man. 
(Having no other Simon to GL switch with, a blanket was used to Amazing 
effect- my only worry now is the Evil Mom-Lady) 

---------------------

From: 100303.141@compuserve.com (Staffan Tjernstrom)
Subject: (Chaos?) armour, Chaos clensing, General C. H. Aos
Message-ID: <940908135430_100303.141_BHB48-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 8 Sep 94 13:54:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6114

There have been some interesting points about the GML blood raised so far, so
here are my additions:

No, the blood/armour is not a chaotic feature.  However, you try telling this to
the poor(?!? - Gringle) non-masters of Sense Chaos in Apple Lane et al.  Chances
are the Constable will have you locked up in no time at all awaiting a tribe
gathering.  When I ran it the players were almost lynched by themselves, as they
worried over the problem.

Clensing of Chaos:

For those of you who were there, I refer to GS's comments at Convulsion '92.
Ie, it is IMPOSSIBLE to remove a taint of chaos (apart from the use of IMMEDIATE
DI if the target of 'chaosification').

Having said this, prior to this one of my characters (a pesky elf C&A initiate)
was acting as medical support to a group of adventurers engaged on some scorpion
man bashing and to cut a long story short she ended up de-chaos tainting a
scorpion man who is now her boy(?)-friend and stands guard outside the Orlanth
Temple in Pavis (the Storm-Bull High Priest keeps getting a headache every time
he passes through trying to sense chaos).

PS, just before anybody notices, our campaign is set in a non-lunar Pavis, hence
the presence of an open Orlanth Temple.

PPS, the scorpion man has a club tail instead of a stinger, after all, you can't
be too careful with these non-humans.

Crystals/matricies:

For crystals, I very much agree with SP's comments.  However, since I play the
rule that it takes one _week_ to attune to a powered crystal (in order to find
out what it does [including if it is flawed]) my LM/IO temples do a roaring
trade in Analyse.

For matricies, I play that (providing you have sufficient INT slots available)
you can get a 'feel' (akin to taste analysis for potions etc) for what the
matrix performs.  What I interpret as feel varies very much according to my
disposition at the time.


---------------------

From: watson@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Chaos taints
Message-ID: <199409081425.PAA28401@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: 8 Sep 94 16:25:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6116

_____
Loren:
>There are a lot of leftover casual mentions of
>things as "chaotic taints" in RQ2 and RQ3 products that should be
>ignored. Greg Stafford told me once that Giants and Cave Trolls *do
>NOT* have chaotic taints no matter what the monster listings say,

Hmm, I could give Giants the benefit of the doubt, but Cave Trolls??
That regeration ability makes them Gravely Suspect in my opinion. It doesn't
seem natural; nor does it have an obvious magical cause (or cost).
As a rule-of-thumb, whenever you appear to get something-for-nothing there's
probably Chaos behind it IMHO.

>so IMHO you should ignore the chaos taint claim for the Mother of Lizards too.

Ok. If the armour gift is not Chaotic then I think there should be some cost
associated with it. Perhaps the ordeal of slaying the beast is enough to merit
the reward. But I'd be tempted to sack some MP off the beneficiaries (or maybe
a point of POW) to seal the enchantment and give it a more "conventional" (as
opposed to Chaotic) magical feel.

>Besides, seems to me she should have an Earth taint if she is
>tainted with any Rune.

Seems fair.
___
CW.

---------------------

From: yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
Subject: ...about gods unseen...
Message-ID: <9409081628.aa12360@uk.ac.ed.castle>
Date: 8 Sep 94 15:28:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6117

(Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty) Writes :

>So if I believe that Yelmalio didn't really loses his fire powers at the hills
>of Gold, I can use Fireblade?  To me this is simplistic.  What also matters is
>what the enemy believes about the god and what actually happened to the God
>himself.

But in order to believe this, you need proof. You can get that proof by going
to the Hills of Gold, in the path of Yelmalio, and defeating ZZ. This heroquest
would assert your mythic right to the fire powers. After all, believing
something is quite different from just thinking it.

>I must come out into the open and state my belief that at 0 ST, the gods were
>frozen by the web.

But the 'godtime' exists outside of time, not merely 'before' it. It exists in
the Gloranthan 'here and now' just as much as in the gloranthan past. It exists
beyond a veil that can be pierced through heroquesting. To a great extent, such
heroquesting has created the godtime we all know about. Remember also that cult
rituals are also heroquests, so these can alter the godtime in the same way.
Thus the worshiper's beliefs, manifested in their rituals of worship, can make
their mark on the godtime.

>In extremely rare cases the myth can be extended
>into time by concious heroquesting of a colossal magnitude ..

I don't think that the difference in magnitude need be that great. In a sense
some heroquest is all heroquest. Treu, to make a great change which alters a
myth important to millions of people is a great heroquest, but even minor
heroquests are temporaly ambivalent. After all, every quester on a given path
is arguably performing the same deeds at the same time and place.

>Either the heroquester finds an event of what the god did that was previously
>unknown and adds the spell to the cults lexicon or he borrows a tool from a
>similar diety or invents a power in which case he becomes the focus of a
>subcult.

Or rather, he performs some heroic deed in the name of the god and thus adds
that acomplishment to the god's achievements. This is the difference between
personal and cultural quests. In the personal quest, the questor performs and
benefits from the deed. In cultural questing, the hero acts for/as the god,
indeed the whole culture, and adds to the cult that way - but with lesser
personal benefits. Founding a subcult is a hafway step between the two, where
others follow a hero's personal quest path and expand it's influence on the
culture as a whole.

>And if Elmal was not Yelmalio, would some bad side effects have happened?  The
>God Learners switched two earth goddesses around and no fruit grew in one place>and no marriage survived in the other.

I think these are quite different. The god learners did not even tell the poor
worshipers that they had made the switch. It was pure godplane engineering.
The rituals the poor saps were using were mere pantomime, they nolonger
corresponded to the godplane realities. I think the worsipers probably could
have quested such a change themselves given time and judicious questing.

I am thinking about historical fusions of deities on earth. Such as the Roman
soldier's habit of identifying local deities with Roman equivalents, for
example the cult of Mithras/Mars.

>I do not accept this.  The Gods were, the gods are.  They have made themselves
>a permanent part of glorantha.

Will the real Yelmalio please stand up! I have difficulty reconciling this with
your next statement.

>This was the basis behind my suggestion that the Solar
>Orb was too powerful to be worshipped directly and all the sun cults we have
>are only crude approximations.

Spot on! Antirius, Yelmalio, Elmal, whatever, spring from the same source. I
relay don't want to be drawn into the Yelmalio/Antirius debate. I just
question some of your statements about heroquesting and god learnerism.

BTW. What the hell is the Hill of Gold anyway. Is it a place, or a metaphor?

>I'm sorry if this has been somewhat pedantic but I feel obliged to explain
>myself when people invoke my name.  I am trying to wean myself of this habit.

Go right ahead, Pete. I think your ideas are interesting and reflect a differentview of heroquesting from mine. You seem to believe in an underlying mythological
truth, where I believe in a continuous mythological process. That's ok.

Simon Hibbs
yfcw29@castle.ed.ac.uk


---------------------

From: Bob.Luckin@tiuk.ti.com
Subject: Goodness GRoYtious, I god a duck...
Message-ID: <9409081730.AA05372@ibrox.tiuk.ti.com>
Date: 8 Sep 94 17:30:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6120

Hi from Bob Luckin !

I'd like to add my voice the the chorus of agreement with David Hall's
comments on the Endless ReInterpretation of GRoY.  I'm starting to find
these protracted arguments a bit tedious, I'm afraid.  I'm also beginning
to hate those mooses to pieces.  :-)


Bryan Maloney (X-RQ-ID: 6106) wrote on Duck Deities...

Thanks !  I enjoyed the humour and it made a welcome relief from GRoYstuff.

Hopefully the others you left at home include Donaldar - a god well-known
for his singing voice, and Squawk Mother - daughter of Vrimquack who
taught Yelmalio how to Speak to Ducks (that one's for you, Jon !).

Cheers, Bob
-- 
Bob Luckin      voly@tiuk.ti.com      "Able was I ere I saw Corflu"