Bell Digest v940914p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 14 Sep 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.

X-RQ-ID: index

6185:  = 
 - Post #3 and still no GRAY....
6186:  = 
 - Re: What My father Told Me - Sun County
6187:  = 
 - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 13 Sep 1994
6189:  = 
 - OTE/Glorantha
6190:  = 
 - What My *R*ather Told Me?
6191:  = 
 - RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 12 Sep 1994, part 1
6192:  = 
6193:  = 
 - Basmol
6194:  = 
 - Kitori
6195:  = 
 - Vinga; Land Goddesses
6196:  = 
 - Re: Something for the Digest -- Received


From: (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Post #3 and still no GRAY....
Message-ID: <>
Date: 14 Sep 94 09:29:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6185

The Blue Wizard speaks again.

David Scott

DH>>>Whether this is true or not doesn't really
DH>>>matter: what matters is what they believe.

PM>>So if I believe that Yelmalio didn't really loses his fire powers at the 
PM>>Hills of Gold, I can use Fireblade?  To me this is simplistic.

DS>If any of my players said the above, they'd definately be labled as
DS>dangerous heretic. 

If a heresy proves more effective in combating the problems and issues of the
society than the orthodox belief than it will eventually become the belief.  I
need only point at the Vegantarianism Heresy of the Mari Mountains.  

DS>I may be wrong but arn't most religons about belief. 

True, but in Glorantha, there are numinous beings in the otherworld known as 
gods.  If you worship them *correctly* you will gain benefits from them.  The
religious beliefs of a culture are an attempt to worship a god or pantheon in
such a way that it maximises the benefit that culture recieves.

DS>As part of their initiation, I'm sure most worshoppers would directly
DS>experience the suffering that Yelmalio felt on the Hill of Gold. Just
DS>because you can say I don't believe it, most wouldn't as they KNOW and FELT
DS>what really happened. 

The question is not whether One doesn't believe it, but whether it should be 
this way.  The Orthodox Yelmalion says yes, whereas a tribe living close to a
orlanthi cult that has a fixation with lets kill evil emperors everywhere and
begins a mania of Solar persecutions may have second thoughts.  One aspiring
hero may decide to 'bring justice to the cold sun' and goes on the Hills of Gold
quest in an attempt to wrest the lightning spear of Orlanth.  He succeeds and
has the bonus not only that he and his people can cast lightning and the 
Orlanthi cultists can't but he also gets fiery powers because he was able to
beat off Zorak with the lightning spear.  

When his priest performs the HHD ceremony, the myth is changed to what the hero
did (we assume the hero did it for the tribe).  Of course now he has to cope 
with the changed values of the people he represents (like Nick said) as well 
as the loss of some of Yelmalios truths.  The changed values will largely be 
related to the unorthodox methods that the hero used in combating Orlanth.  If
he hid behind the bushes when Orlanth came along and bushwacked him then his
people would start to become more cunning, indulge in guerilla warfare instead
of the traditional hoplite tactics and so on.

Nick Brooke

>IMHO, Yelmalions who wanted to *win* at the Hill of Gold would be like 
>Christians who thought the Crucifixion was a bad thing, and HeroQuested/ 
>time travelled back to Judaea with a ladder and a claw-hammer to stop it 
>from happening. 

My thoughts exactly.  Most Yelmalions would not think much of the 'Bring 
Justice to the Cold Sun' for the reason it brings them closer to Yelmalio.  
However there have been people who got the wrong end of the stick about some 
myths in every age.  A belief exists among Muslims (based on an ambigous phrase
in the Koran which can also translate as 'in crucifying him, you only gained a 
shadow of victory' or something like that) that Jesus wasn't actually 
crucified but an occult (normally means hidden powers in Muslim tradition) 
shadow so treated in his place.  If the Caliph was ravaged by social turmoil 
and the antichrist is upon his borders (yes, Islam does have acopalyptic 
traditions similar to christianity), he might (assuming gloranthan magic was 
in effect in the RW - hahaha) go back with an occult shadow to Judea to bring 
back Jesus.

Thanks for the update on Teleos.  I'll now try and think of something weird.

--Peter Metcalfe


From: (Jon Green)
Subject: Re: What My father Told Me - Sun County
Message-ID: <>
Date: 13 Sep 94 10:13:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6186

Peter J. Whitelaw in X-RQ-ID: 6182:

> What My Rather Told Me - A Personal View Of Sun County Life
> =====================================================
Thank you, Peter, for an excellent and well-written summary of Sun County



From: (Nick Eden)
Subject: OTE/Glorantha
Date: 13 Sep 94 19:47:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6189

In-Reply-To: <9409130715.AA05434@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
Interestingly, and I think independantly to my good friend and old school 
mate Duncan Hedderly I briefly considerered an OTE/Glorantha game and 
rejected it for quite different reasons.
With the right players (ie those who knew the world quite well - not what 
Duncan said he was wanting to run last time we spoke) I think OTE, with 
it's very quick and fluid mechanics could work - its a step towards 
systemless for those who still hanker after systems. The problem would be 
that EVERYONE would wind up with skills like:

Sword of Humakt (4d6) in their best slot, and they'd all look the same.

OTE is a game in which not everyone will be a fighter, and in a world 
dominated by warriors it would loose some of it's appeal.

My current working ideas are for a Ralios based city state game using 
systems ripped out of Vampire - very powerful PCs leading factions within 
the city, all sitting on the town council. Or Star Wars for a bouncy, 
medium powered heroes game. It's the magic systems for each that are 
stumping me at present. If I had an ideal way of getting them to work 
then I'd go for the system I could handle. Ralios is especially difficult 
as I worked out how to get theist magic working and then realised that 
I'd need sorcery as well.

If people are interested I could upload some notes.

Incedentally I think there's an OTE/Glorantha thread on, but I'm not a member at present.

************************************************************** (Nick Eden)
Has it never occured to you that the Romans counted backwards?
(Be honest.)


From: (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: What My *R*ather Told Me?
Message-ID: <940913220625_100102.3001_BHJ55-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 13 Sep 94 22:06:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6190

Hi all,

I guess it doesn't bode well if i can't type the title correctly.  Since I am
not sure what a 'What My Rather Told Me' is, please substitute 'Father' for
'Rather' in my post yesterday.'

What I forgot to say was that I would be keen to know where others would differ
with my own interpretation.


>Our little RQ group here was once captured, tied up, and forced to play
>Shadowrun for five tortuous sessions.  Living in Seattle, we thought, "Oh,
well, at >least we won't have to memorize a new map!"  It was little
consolation.  (OK - 
>apologies in advance to any SR fans out there...)

Urrgghh.  My sympathies.  

>We're getting our revenge, though.  

Ain't it sweet?


For the record, I recently wrote up a dramatised version of the escape of my
players from Muriah's High Holes (SotB) to serve them as a recap.  It's a little
long to post to the Daily so you will probably see it in a future Digest.

So get your boots on and prepare to wade through some treacley (sp?) prose 


All the best,



From: mmorrison@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 12 Sep 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <>
Date: 13 Sep 94 20:00:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6191

*** Reply to note of Mon, 12 Sep 94 09:15:24 +0200
*** by RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM

Kuri writes:
K> I have a question about Blank Truestone.
K> A priest who cast all his rune spells into the trunestone
K> (A) cannot regain them and he must resacrifice to the spell.
K>    or
K> (B) can regain them when he pray in his temple as usual.
K> which is true?

   As I understand it, neither.  A priest casts his/r Rune Magic
   into Truestone (blank or simply empty); the priest/ess cannot
   regain the use of those spells until they are cast from the
   Truestone.  Once they are cast from the Truestone, the priest/ess
   can regain the spells in the usual way (if they were reusable).

   The Truestone merely makes the spells portable, it does not count
   as having actually cast them -- that's why the priest/ess can't
   use or regain the spells until they are cast from the Truestone.

   I think this also differs from Rune Magic matrices in that the
   matrix holds the spell (or the ability to cast it) and the
   priest/ess can regain the spell in the usual way -- and the
   matrix is reusable.  Truestone is not; it is refillable, but
   not reusable.

   Anyone care to post how this works using the Rune Pool system?

Michael C. Morrison    IMS Information Development  Tieline  8-543-4706
Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California    (SWS)     Phone (408)463-4706
Bitnet ID:             MCM at VNET                  Fax   (408)463-4101
IBM Mail Exchange ID:  USIB47H4 at IBMMAIL  or  USIB4MCM at IBMMAIL
X.400 Address:         G=mcmgm; S=morrison; P=ibmmail; A=ibmx400; C=us


Message-ID: <>
Date: 13 Sep 94 16:15:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6192


GH> Alas, while I was out of town for the weekend, my BBS apparently had
GH> some kind of malfunction, and I lost the Runequest Dailies and the
GH> Digest from Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Can someone take pity on
GH> me and Email these to me?

GH> GUY ( aka Fido Two-Big-Clubs

Of course, I should have put the dates in question on there, as it 
appears there's some delay between my sending this request and it 
arriving at the Daily. I mean the Dailies from Sept. 3-5 and the latest 
edition of the RQ Digest, the one on Trade. Thanks ever so!

The aforementioned Fido Two-Big-Clubs

BTW, while I'm here, I should mention that my character (Fido), a former 
Herd-man, is about to rescue his mate (still a herd-woman) from the 
high-kickin' Kung Fu Morokanth. Dang (to paraphrase Sandy). Shoulda 
brought some shuriken.  
Since we know what tactics the Morokanth use (thanks, Sandy!), how about 
some tactics to use AGAINST them??

 * RM 1.3  * Eval Day 17 * RoboMail -- The next generation QWK compatible


Subject: Basmol
Message-ID: <>
Date: 14 Sep 94 02:31:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6193

I'd just like to add my voice to the chorus of appreciation for Bryan's
Basmol poetry.  Fantastic vision.  

Peter Michaels has some good stuff on the Basmoli, too.  The one thing that
really sticks in my memory from it is that the Basmoli believe that Basmol
was lured to Prax by the scent of Eiritha's blood, and it was Basmol's
job/duty to kill her and thereby put her out of her misery.  By foiling him
in this task, the Praxians are perverting nature.  

I'd write more but Oliver Stone just fried my mind.



From: (David Cake)
Subject: Kitori
Message-ID: <>
Date: 14 Sep 94 19:47:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6194

        I have been discussing the Kitori and others with Bernard Langham
recently, and I thought that I would raise the issue on the list.
        My conception of the Kitori is that they are really two tribes with
a very close alliance, a human Orlanthi tribe and a tribe of Uz. The
cornerstone of the alliance is the symbolic marriage between the Chief of
the Orlanthi, and the Queen of the Uz. There are references to the Queen of
the Kitoris lovers as a force of fierce troll warriors in KOS, who I took
to be the many trolls warriors who attend the Queen, as is quite normal in
Uz society.
        I conceived of them as being basically divine magic users, as well,
the only really unusual thing being a great prevalence of Argan Argar
worshippers. Bernard suggested (and I think he may have got the idea from
Joerg) that the Kitori are more sorcery using, and are basically Stygians/
Arkati. I disagree, thinking that they are basically divine users, though
probably with several sorcerous users among them (as is not unusual among
trolls who venerate Arkat). I do think that it is possible that they
venerate Argan Argar as Ernaldas husband, as is done in parts of Kethaela.
        So the questions I would like discussed are - what is the social
structure of the Kitori? What divine magic do they use? How much
Arkati/Stygian influence is there?
        A related question is where exactly is the temple of Black Arkat
(the human temple that teaches troll Arkati sorcery)? I think that it is
not within Kitori lands, though Kitori troll Arkati may accept some human
        I also note in passing that I have long thought that Kitori lands
are a good place for a campaign setting. The troll allies enable the GM to
really use most of the excellent troll source material, it is near much of
the near future historical action (siege of Whitewall, sacking of Karse,
King Broyan of the Volsaxi), and it is also near a nice big juicy Chaos
                Dave Cake


From: (David Dunham)
Subject: Vinga; Land Goddesses
Message-ID: <>
Date: 14 Sep 94 06:34:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6195

Bryan Maloney's version of Vinga is somewhat different than mine, as I've
already mentioned. One thing I found odd was the term "Red Ladies," as it
sounds like those hated priestesses from Peloria...

How do people run the Land Goddesses? Dorasta, frex, is a Land Goddess, as
well as a Grain Goddess. Her health and the health of the land appear to be
somewhat connected.

In King of Sartar, the Feathered [Horse] Queen represents the "inherent
sovereignty of the land, based on the consciousness of working with the
goddess within it." I've been giving Ralia this power -- to become king of
the tribe, you need to ritually marry a Ralia priestess (exactly what this
means for female kings I haven't worked out).

Elsewhere in KoS, Moirades of Tarsh marries the Feathered Queen of the
Kerofin Temple, who presumably also embodies the sovereignty of the land.
[This is a troublesome passage since it appears to raise confusion between
the FHQ of the Grazers and the FQ of the Earth temple.]

It seems clear that there is the concept of sovereignty of the land, though
it's far from clear that it's in the Grain Goddess (Esrola), but rather in
other Earth goddesses.

BTW, we've been wondering what Dorasta's grain is. Maize, same as her
mother Pelora?


From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Something for the Digest -- Received
Message-ID: <9409140649.AA18992@boxtel.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 14 Sep 94 07:49:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6196

I will post this soon.

David, I'd appreciate suggestions for good
cutting points in the text, should I make
this 10+19k, 15+14, or say, 18+11?

> From Wed Sep 14 06:19 MET 1994
>         Dear Henk, 
>                 I was about to post this to the RQ Daily, when I notice
> that it was 29k long, which seemed a bit excessive. I have said in the past
> that I was going to post it, so I would apreciate it if you sent it out via
> the digest.
>         A few things to note about it: I welcome any constructive criticism
> of it; it is intended to appear in TOTRM some time, probably slightly
> revised from what appears here; I have to thank Dave Pearton, who mentioned
> the Imboyngi as a specialist role, which I have incorporated here, and made
> other useful comments and suggestions; and I was not particularly impressed
> with some aspects of the Aranjara/ Left Hand path work by John Hughes, so
> they get fairly short shrift in this, I'm afraid. 
>         I am working on a Pamaltalan scenario, possibly a companion piece
> to this article.
>         Here it is. 
> ***
> Dealing with the Doraddi 
> A guide by Genvan the Generous, Foreign Merchant Prince of Fonrit
>         I have heard many young merchants from far lands say that you cannot 
> bargain with the Doraddi, but this is just impatience and lack of 
> knowledge speaking. I have dealt with them many times, and great profits 
> can be made, for they have great natural wealth, but not as great skill 
> among their artisans as the people here in Fonrit, or in other ports. 
> Listen to me and you may learn how you may profit by them as well.