Bell Digest v940915p2

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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 15 Sep 1994, part 2
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Praxians selling herd-beasts
Message-ID: 
Date: 14 Sep 94 15:28:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6205

Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 6187

> Pam Carlson said, some time ago, that she thought it was unlikely  
> that a Praxian would sell a herd beast to someone who didn't even  
> _know_ Peaceful Cut. 

Who says that the Sartarite herders don't use the peaceful cut when 
they slaughter their cattle or sheep? The earth cults seem to do so on 
swine (otherwise the Bloody Cut of the Tusk Riders wouldn't have been 
that offensive).

> 	Now, obviously a Praxian who was starving, or irreligious, or  
> had some other excuse, might sell a herd beast to an Orlanthi. But I  
> think in general they sell living beasts only to other Praxians,  
> though goods made from beasts, hides, and jerky are all traded  
> eagerly. 

Wel, I think this makes places like Pavis or Adari, where nomads 
have become sedentary, the places where life beasts are sold - to 
former Praxians who now live as butchers or beast traders among the 
outsiders.


> Now for some biological talk Useful To Glorantha. 

Useful indeed. Thanks a lot!

> The Wapiti is extremely feisty -- approximately 5% of all adult male  
> wapiti in a given year die in combat with another wapiti. Hence, I  
> believe that the Pralori hsunchen are also exceedingly aggressive and  
> ferocious. I'm sure they fight among themselves all the time, and  
> would probably be dangerous to visit. For sure you don't want to mess  
> with their women. 

This explains why the Kingdom of War considers them as mercenaries. I 
had my problems with moose hsunchen in their armies, though - too 
solitary for good mercenaries.

-- 
--  Joerg Baumgartner   joe@sartar.toppoint.de

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Subject: unsub list fulgrin@aol.com
Message-ID: <9409141355.tn957917@aol.com>
Date: 14 Sep 94 17:55:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6207

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From: Fulgrin@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 06 ...
Message-ID: <9409141354.tn957892@aol.com>
Date: 14 Sep 94 17:54:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6208

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From: Lynne.Clayton@bhein.rel.co.uk (Clayton, Lynne)
Subject: Yelorna
Message-ID: <9408147795.AA779583169@reedel1.bhein.rel.co.uk>
Date: 14 Sep 94 13:52:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6209




From: Paul Honigmann, Oxford, UK
================================


    YELORNANS  (General advice for newbie Gloranthan PC's)
    =========
    Michelle Ringo asks what she can do to differentiate her Yelornan PC from
others, particularly her previous Chalana Arroy and Storm Bull ones. Well:
    The trouble with Storm Bull and Orlanthi characters - who seem to comprise
the majority of PC's - is that they have to be extremists in a Gloranthan
game. There's always something that has to be fought. And they're in powerful
cults; if they throw their weight around, the cult often backs them up.
    Now Yelornans are an extremely small faction that can't afford to make any 
more enemies - Darkness and, to a lesser extent, Chaos are more than enough.
So I would advise the use of guile and, in particular, building up a lot of
contacts with useful NPC's. I've often seen a powerful character who was
all but useless outside a fight, whilst the weed he despised gathered
information, found out who was really doing what, who might be an ally, and
was more effective. Don't neglect your warrior abilities; it is a fighting 
cult; but don't rely on them alone. In particular, try to find contacts who:

   - can fence hot property
   - can smuggle you or an object out of a city
   - hate your enemies - I wonder if your referee would allow you to work
with (female) trollkin?
   - want to use you as an intermediate - for example, Storm Bulls in Pavis
might want you to pick up information from eavesdropping on Lunars, who are
friendly rivals with Yelornans. Or, you could help ransom a wealthy Lunar
from Orlanthis, because neither side has a quarrel with you. You get a 10%
commission, of course.
   - people who might aquire rune metal silver: Yelorna is about the only cult
apart from Lunars who can use it, so you should be able to buy it at cut rates
from people who've just bumped off Lunars
   - someone who can rework the silver into your form, so it won't be 
identifiable
   - Yelmalions, especially female ones
   - Yelm cultists, especially Lunar ones
   - Praxian barbarians: the Unicorn tribe is an acceptable non-horse tribe
   - Can translate obscure languages for free, perhaps because you bring them
interesting scrolls
   - female adventurers: there could be a mutual self-help 'sisterhood' 
operating in the area
   - alchemists (you could keep an eye out for rare plants on your travels)
   - Babeester Gor cultists, for mutual help on anti-male operations where
your Light powers might be the extra edge they need
   - tapping into the gossip network of adventurers' and nobles' wives
   - dolling up and getting invited to important balls by nobles or Lunar
officers; getting to know important people at parties like this can be a good
way to get to see them when you need some heavy help.

   Other aims for your character could be to track down and bond with a free 
unicorn; to free a unicorn from a travelling zoo; to track down and kill an
alchemist who's using unicorn horn in his healing potions; an intense but
friendly rivalry with a brother in Yelmalio; tracking down a Golden Crystal 
of Yelmalio's Blood before the Yelmalions get it, and presenting it to them 
to show them up. You might want to study astronomy or astrology; and
spend a lot of time wandering round at night - Star Ladies are almost
nocturnal. Perhaps you could be a good thief's accomplice because you've
always got a legitimate excuse for lurking in dark alleys. Maybe you always
volunteer to take the night watch for the party, and sleep very late.

   I wonder if Yelornans admire troll society in a wry fashion - after all,
it's a matriarchy and the males know their place. Perhaps Yelornans aspire to 
own male slaves to show their superiority. 

   Other quirks of a Yelornan might be collecting statues / art of naked
males, or watching Yelmalion warriors wrestling in the Greek fashion (naked);
running an aviary for wounded birds; collecting coloured glass beads or gems
which refract light strongly; putting out food for wild birds; duelling
Lunars ('cos they stole Silver from your Goddess); sabotaging cockfights;
collecting horse brasses for your mount and talking with 'horsey' phrases:
"I've hurt my fetlock!" "Calm down, stop champing at the bit";
swearing by Lightfore or other stars; purifying trolls by Fire; flirting with
men and then dropping them (could be dangerous); or using astrology to do a
Divination, then following what the stars said. 

   - Yes, I think Yelornans should have a skill in Astrology, 
maximum possible 50%, and every now and then should be
found doing something completely bonkers as a result! Say, travelling vast
distances to find a new born babe, or witness a conjunction or eclipse...
trying to find a two-headed cockroach to avert a disaster... and it's a good
DM's device to guide you to an adventure.

   And what about sports? Many adventuring characters have a 'hobby', be it
trollball or hunting. Perhaps Yelornans tend towards polo, or 'horse' racing.

   Well, hope some of that gives you ideas. Sorry you asked yet?



***************** still more...but I promise its only one more! ************


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From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: white buffalo
Message-ID: 
Date: 14 Sep 94 21:07:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6211

Greg Fried here.

Just thought some of the non-US readers of the Daily might be interested to
learn that on the news here last night it was reported that a _white buffalo_
has been born in Wisconsin.  This is _not_ an albino (as far as I could tell
from the newscast footage) but a true white buffalo. Native Americans have
flooded the land of the farmer/rancher (a white man, BTW) to whose herd the
calf was born, since this event event has religious significance almost as
great as the second coming. Someone, please correct me if this is wrong, or
fill it out further, but the legend of the Lakota Sioux was that White
Buffalo Woman would return as a white buffalo to signal a great turn of
fortune for the Sioux people -- and for humanity as a whole. 

According to one biologist interviewed, the chances of this birth are one in
10 million.

Ideas for RQ scenario, anyone?!  A white buffalo is born to a mother who has
been taken prison by the Sables ... who are SURE it should be RED.... and are
going about a heroquest to make it so.....  Your Bison clan to the rescue!

-- GF out.

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From: 100102.3001@compuserve.com (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: Animal husbandry 101
Message-ID: <940914230206_100102.3001_BHJ47-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 14 Sep 94 23:02:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6212

Hi all,

Sandy:
>Other plains animals later, if interest warrants. 

Yes please!

******

Jon Green:
>Peter J. Whitelaw in X-RQ-ID: 6182:
>
>> What My Rather Told Me - A Personal View Of Sun County Life
>> =====================================================
> 
>Thank you, Peter, for an excellent and well-written summary of Sun County
>life.

Thanks!  I must confess to having experienced a little trepidation at tossing my
material into the line of fire.

I made a conscious effort to try and stick to more mundane issues (e.g. What
people wear) rather than the spiritual (intricacies of the Sun Pantheon etc.) as
there are already plenty of divergent opinions on the latter.

******

All the best,

Peter




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From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: And now for something completely blue...
Message-ID: <01HH53F5J3IQFGYUVZ@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 16 Sep 94 00:28:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6213

David D:
=======

>How do people run the Land Goddesses? Dorasta, frex, is a Land Goddess, as
>well as a Grain Goddess. Her health and the health of the land appear to be
>somewhat connected.

IMO the grain of a particular goddess is a tool or spirit that has been
acquired by that goddess.  Normally bless crops will work with any old grass
and edible legumes but the special crop means the areas a bit better for
growing the crop.

>It seems clear that there is the concept of sovereignty of the land, though
>it's far from clear that it's in the Grain Goddess (Esrola), but rather in
>other Earth goddesses.

My money is on the land/grain goddesses from their descent from Gata and
Genert.  This can of course be confused with other earth goddesses and I will
leave that up to the myth makers.

>BTW, we've been wondering what Dorasta's grain is. Maize, same as her
>mother Pelora?

Maize really only entered the Lunar empire with Hon-eel and the southern tribes
rejected her grain.  IMO from my interpetation of the graoy (don't hiss folks!)
the Pelorians grew barley and rice prior to this.  Unless anything else comes
up my guess is on Barley.

Sandy:
======

>IMPALA
>	Unlike other antelope (like the Praxian sable), the impala  
>requires a source of free water. NOTE: female impalas do NOT have  
>horns. Female impalas are hence not ridden, even by women, since the  
>horns are important to steering antelopes while riding (personal  
>opinion). 

Like motorbikes?  *Groan*  I can imagine 'the wild tribe' set in Adari when a
gang of impala riders zoom into the city streets lead by a marlon brando
lookalike and they terrorize the population...

--Peter Metcalfe.


---------------------

From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Vinga and boredom.
Message-ID: <9409150330.AA15088@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Sep 94 03:30:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6214


David "ennui" Hall grumbles:
> David Switch:
> Please hurry up with this. I want to switch with Dave Cake and get a cheap 
> holiday in Australia! 

Me too!  Any closet Antipodean Alexes (Aleci?) game?

> Shargash/Entekos/Antirinausia:
> I hesitate to say this, but does anyone else out there find all of this 
> endless analysis and investigation of the Glorious ReAscent obscure, 
> over-complex, over-blown and completely irrelevant!

I agree that 90% of this thread is... of limited value.  But see Sturgeon's
Law.  The discussion seems inevitable, though, given that it's almost the
only first hand info we have on Dara Happa, and after all, GRAY was
made available for (approximately) this purpose.  And where better to
discuss it?  If the ovberwhelming answer ti this last is "Somewhere else!",
then perhaps we can prevail upon a Technologically Advanced person to set
up a GRAY-pendantry list.

> How can any of this waffle help me GM or play the damn game? 

Straw man, since only a Complete Loonie (hi Nick?) would even attempt to
play a game in Dara Happa (latter day or otherwise), since all the much
need material is waiting to see print.  When it does, mind, we'll have
other things to argue about...

> Vinga:

> I think she has the Air, Mobility and Earth runes. She is a deity for 
> Orlanthi women - but she is also Orlanth Adventuress.

Earth, schmearth.  Why, given her fairly-widely-agreed-on lack of any
earth powers?  Do I detect a hidden assumption that all Girly Deities
are associated with the earth?

> Note: I believe that 
> women can't join the cult of Orlanth per se. [...]
> To get automatic access to almost 
> all Orlanthi magic (and special Vingan magic) they must join Vinga.

I think I mostly agree with this.  I imagine it varies quite a bit, though.
Mortasor: "Women warriors?".  "Conservative" clans in rural Sartar: it's
assumed that each gender will follow the appropriate Path, and initiation
into same is fairly on-the-nod (except in the _really_ conservative areas).
If you want to follow the "wrong" path, you have more to prove; for warrior
women, you do this by recapitulating Vinga's myth (whichever it is), and
hence are in her cult.  In most "cosmopolitan" areas, the resistance is
less, and the distinction gets blurrier: there will be a Vinga shrine in
the city temple, but women Orlanthi won't be as distinctive.  In yet more
liberal-thinking areas, the two cults might be Separate But Equal (not to
say fairly similar).  This might an idea promulgated in hitherto chauvinist
Orlanthi lands (not Sartar, for obvious reasons) by the Lunars, in order to
(free their sisters from subjugation/undermine Orlanthi social structure).

> This theory also leads me to think that she is not 
> part of the Esrolian Earth pantheon - or only a very recent addition. 
> Proving her to be a part of this pantheon would make a fun campaign!

I'm not sure what the Correct Esrolian attitude to Vinga might be: either
she's well-regarded, since she demonstrates Anything You Can Do; or she
ain't, since she encourages women to ape Macho Bull Shit behaviour, which
doesn't have the same high social worth in Esrolia as elsewhere, so why
bother?  Doubtless the two (uneasily) coexist, in unknown proportions.

Alex.

---------------------

From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Nilses and Wind Childs.
Message-ID: <9409150351.AA15111@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Sep 94 03:51:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6215


The One (and Only) True Nils (Weinander, that is):
> Peter Metcalfe (or is it the Blue Wizard?) invokes my name {rune? no one
> has contested me as primal Nils yet [...]}

Just wait until some Norwegian chap called "Rune" joins the list, and
we start discussing whether he has two Rune Runes, or as the Original
Origin, has a Rune Rune and an Infinity Rune.  Then you'll all be sorry.

> OK, that's plausible, but back to the wind children of Storm walk mountains.
> They have feathered wings like a bird, yet they are storm creatures. Is there
> some wind child mythology which explains whence they came?

Until the Theyalans contacted the Dara Happans, they had no reason to make
any en masse feathered creatures -> sky gods -> bad association.  I'm sure
many bird types are regarded as "good" by Sartarites, even in the present
(indeed, some are clan totems), though latter-day Orlanthi cult strictures
might lead one to think otherwise.  Mind you, I'd like to see some funky
Wind Child myths too if anyone has any keen ideas.

Alex.

---------------------

From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Them pesky gods, 'gain.
Message-ID: <9409150407.AA15137@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Sep 94 04:07:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6216


Peter Metcalfe:
> David Hall Writes
> >Whether this is true or not doesn't really 
> >matter: what matters is what they believe. 

> So if I believe that Yelmalio didn't really loses his fire powers at the hills
> of Gold, I can use Fireblade?  To me this is simplistic.

Yup, it sure is.  Belief is not, in this context, just One Man's Opinion.
What matters is the whole communities belief about their god, and how this
reflected in their lives, and their worship.  In order to re-jig the religion
to "fix" his fire powers, you'd have to redo his whole mythology, and the
whole society based upon it.  Big heroquest.

> I must come out into the open and state my belief that at 0 ST, the gods were
> frozen by the web.  All the myths that we have of a particular god are the 
> totality of the god himself.

I don't think this is true, myself.  Certainly mythology has changed since,
and while some of these changes may be caused by "rediscovering" lost truths,
I don't think that accoubts for all, or even most of them.

> Other types of cult changes can be either of two mechanisms. 
> [...] the heroquester [...] invents a power in which case he becomes
> the focus of a subcult.

Right.  Why isn't this "new" mythology, and effectively a new (mini-)god,
then?

> >Glorantha isn't a world based on science where things can be proved right 
> >or wrong - where there is one true way.

> I do not accept this.  The Gods were, the gods are.

The gods form a confluent term reduction system?

> Transferring this example to Glorantha, An Orlanthi warlord encounters a
> malkioni land and conquers it.  [...]  He orders the wizards of
> that land to alter the spell of worship invisible god to worship orlanth and
> borrows other malkioni traditons.  Do you think that this would be successful? 
Maybe, maybe not.  It would depend much more on whether the locals went
for the idea, and whether a plausible mythic and ritualistic connection
could be made, than whether Orlanth "was really" the Invisible God.  I don't
think this hinges on some plane of Platonic ideals somewhere, where there
are gods which Simply Are something, regardless of what people believe and
practice.

> (Yes, I know about the cult of the invisble orlanth, but that is a myth in
> carmania of how Orlanth defeated the creator and was enlightened, not the
> identification of Orlanth with the invisible god)

When I asked Greg about this, he said precisely the reverse.  Mind you, he
also said he didn't know much more about it, and could conceivably have been
Nicked.  Whichever way you slice it, they believe in a relationship between
the two which would not be accepted elsewhere (like Loskalm, or Sartar).
Which of them is wrong, and why does their magic still work?

> However if Elmal was not Yelmalio/Antirius/Paininthearseus, they 
> were still trying to do was substitute a foreign god and the Sartarite could 
> have easily made the charge of 'God Learnerism' which he doesn't.

Obviously no priest is going to stand up and boldfacedly tell his
congregation that they'd been worshipping the wrong god, let's switch to
a new one.  That doesn't mean that either i) he's right, in some one true
cosmological sense; or ii) that he won't later deny any identity, when
others persist in worshipping the "wrong" god.

In any case, I don't think the typical Sartarite has a great working
knowledge of God Learnerism, so it would hardly be the insult of choice.
"Dirty Yelmic-fellow-travelling treacherous backstabbers" would do nicely.

Alex.

---------------------

From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Karandoli, and other Samly stuff.
Message-ID: <9409150417.AA15158@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Sep 94 04:17:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6217


Samford Phillipson escribes:
> I have been giving a lot of thought to the Varmandi re-write, trying
> to get my original stuff to match Greg's maps and KoS.

Jeepers, you have been a busy little Varmandisaga-ers, haven't you?  I think
we may have to get together over pint-glass measures of Lunar gin and rabbit
about this again.

> The Zarran wars ended with the destruction of the Karandoli tribe and the
> passing of the Malani tribe. This contradicts what is said in "Lost Clans"
> which says they arrived *after* the passing of the Malani and were destroyed
> by Jenstli clan magic. Also, if the Karandoli clan *were* destroyed around 1420
> then where was Ortossi (Colymar king 1479-1491) from? The Varmandi also claim 
> to have destroyed the Karandoli in the Taral War (supposedly before the Zarran
> Wars). Confused? You will be...

I noticed the Karandoli being exterminated twice, and decided that the
Varmandi mention of them was mistaken.  They must have meant... uh, some
other clan.  Maybe they really _were_ extermined twice: after the first
time, a new clan was formed (after the fashion of the Lonisi, or the
Antorlings), but adopting the original clans name.  I also think that
"destroyed" doesn't necessarily mean to a man, but may mean just eliminated
as a self-contained body, with surviving bloodlines joining the successor
clan, or others.

BTW, as the above included text probably makes clear, if people (hard stare
at Sam, and Peter Metcalfe, for starters) write lines that are on-or-over
80 chars, when included it starts to wrap-around (or whatever) and generally
look horrible, unless someone can be bothered to reformat it.  (I couldn't,
as you can tell.)

[...]
> :(C) - David Hall, Kevin Jacklin & Greg Stafford.

> I trust I haven't overstepped my 10% copying allowance here. Alex,
> you *aren't* a copywrite lawyer so seem to be qualified to speak knowledgeably,
> and at length, about such matters.. 

Yup.  I offer the following (somewhat post hoc) advice: if Chaosium don't
sue you for every cent of your overdraft, and none of Greg's Nasty Curses
take effect on you, it must have been okay.  BTW, (C) isn't a legally-
binding substitute for the Copyright word or symbol.  I should really
go read up enough law to write a watertight disclaimer for all this free
legal advice, to obviate the possibility of hefty damage suits when it
All Goes Horribly Wrong.

Void where prohibited by natural law,
Alex.