Bell Digest v940916p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 16 Sep 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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Precedence: junk

X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.

X-RQ-ID: index

6221:  = 
 - Praxian Plains Animals
6222:  = 
 - Beliefs
6223:  = 
 - unsubscribe
6224:  = 
 - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 14 Sep 1994
6225:  = 
 - Re: Nilses and Wind Childs.
6226:  = 
 - Pavic teleportation.. or.. Things that aren't where they were!
6227:  = 
 - Re: OTE/Glorantha
6229:  = 
 - Somebody's criticism of RunePower...
6230:  = 
 - Funky birds
6231:  = 
 - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 15 Sep 1994
6232:  = 
 - Nick's WMMTM
6233:  = 
 - White Bison, Prax Beasties
6234:  = 
 - Complete Lunacy
6235:  = 
 - RQ Merchandise, et al.
6236:  = 
 - Basmol story
6237:  = 
 - Last word on Yelmalio, (I hope)...
6238:  = 
 - Sun Folk; Orlanthi


Subject: Praxian Plains Animals
Message-ID: <9409150913.AA17031@Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 94 09:16:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6221

Hi All
	Sandy - yes please send more info on Plains animals especially Rhinos.

One of my PCs has a small breeding herd of rhinos (well his wife does actually) and I would like to know all the gory facts.  Gestation time, life expectancy, 
mass, charge speed, ability to learn to dance and play the violin...



From: (David Scott)
Subject: Beliefs
Date: 15 Sep 94 10:08:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6222

Peter said;

>True, but in Glorantha, there are numinous beings in the otherworld known as
>gods.  If you worship them *correctly* you will gain benefits from them.  The
>religious beliefs of a culture are an attempt to worship a god or pantheon in
>such a way that it maximises the benefit that culture recieves.

I think you have to be a bit careful here as different peoples worshipping
the same god may well have different ideas about what exactly is correct.
From their view, what they are doing is correct and so any feedback they
get from their god will be correct. I don't think that cultures would
actively try to minimax their gods, as it's a bit to godlearnerish. If new
ideas enter in to their worship, they don't have to be positive benefits as
that assumes that worshippers alway get it right. Is'nt this is part of how
religions change.

I think what we have here is just a difference of opinion, I think that the
majority (95%+) of individuals who undergo initiation in Glorantha have a
direct experience related to the core being of their god(s). So Yelmalians
will have the crap beaten out of them on the Hill of Gold, Orlanthi will
get thrown into pits designed to kill them, etc. The participation in this
event is part of the shock that takes them into adulthood. After this event
anyone can rationalise these facts and realise that it could all be very
different, but I feel that the direct experience will always overide these
facts in the vast majority of people. Direct experience vs. theorised fact
which is truer, well of course i'll say direct experience :-)

> One aspiring
>hero may decide to 'bring justice to the cold sun' and goes on the Hills
>of Gold
>quest in an attempt to wrest the lightning spear of Orlanth.

Fine, this guy/gal isn't in the vast majority but he would have to get the
support of his clan for such an endevour and this maybe the hardest thing
to do. If he doesn't he risks a very difficult quest which may cause a
small group of supporters to split off...

Any thought as to how all this may arise in a clan with say 100 adults. Can
anyone think up a story around this. Along the lines of One day Big Ugh was
listening to the story of How Yelmalio was badly treated at the Hill of
Gold, he though that's not fair and starts a discussion about it  with his
friends. Most promptly say that's not for the likes of us to talk about and
the rest ignore him anyway sure in the knowledge that what Yelmalio
suffered was for their good...

What Nick said

>>IMHO, Yelmalions who wanted to *win* at the Hill of Gold would be like
>>Christians who thought the Crucifixion was a bad thing, and HeroQuested/
>>time travelled back to Judaea with a ladder and a claw-hammer to stop it
>>from happening.

I must agree here as well. We have a very good example of this in the UK
right at this moment. A retired polititian/schoolar has just retranslated
some bits of the bible and come up with the startling fact that Jesus was
in fact stoned by the Jews. However nobody seems to have taken the
slightest bit of notice (as far as I can tell). I don't think he will try
to re-enact his new findings as some sort of passion play and even if he
did people would still think that he is some kind of doddering old fool.
This seems to be the sort of thing that Gloranthan heroes are up against.

Sandy said about Nick's quote

>    Spot on. In the heroquest as I have written it, while it is
>possible to "win" and thus retain your fire powers, this _does_ have
>the alarming side effect of NOT being able to gain immortality.
>Fireblade -- immortality. You be the judge.

Any chance of seeing your quest on the digest? Perhaps it would give us
pointers as to how easy it is to change myth in a gaming environment.

BTW Sandy, I liked the plains animal info - any more?



Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <9409151030.AA24659@Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 94 10:31:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6223

unsub list


From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 14 Sep 1994
Message-ID: <9409151141.AA05498@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 94 12:41:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6224

>	Rhino riders tend to live in open groups. A clan will  
>normally graze over an immense area, the rhinos scattered thinly.

They don't tend to meet Morocanth very often then...

Henk	|	Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[]	|	RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
	|	x15338		-- ask me about /etc/rc2.d/S80lpconfig


From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Nilses and Wind Childs.
Message-ID: <9409151219.AA05632@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 94 13:19:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6225

Alex Ferguson:

>Just wait until some Norwegian chap called "Rune" joins the list, and
>we start discussing whether he has two Rune Runes, or as the Original
>Origin, has a Rune Rune and an Infinity Rune.  Then you'll all be sorry.

Why wait?  He's a subscriber already...
Henk	|	Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[]	|	RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
	|	x15338		-- ask me about /etc/rc2.d/S80lpconfig


From: (Loren Miller)
Subject: Re: OTE/Glorantha
Message-ID: <9409151510.AA22472@Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 94 07:11:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6227 (Nick Eden) writes:
> With the right players (ie those who knew the world quite well - not what 
> Duncan said he was wanting to run last time we spoke) I think OTE, with 
> it's very quick and fluid mechanics could work - its a step towards 
> systemless for those who still hanker after systems. The problem would be 
> that EVERYONE would wind up with skills like:
> Sword of Humakt (4d6) in their best slot, and they'd all look the same.

Do all the players in your game choose Humakti with tons of Geasa and
Gifts now? Why not? It would make them fearsome fighters indeed. They
would be undefeatable.

I think that OTE would work for Glorantha because in Glorantha players
have reasons to choose non-fighting characters. They can succeed as
trader-priests, as sorcerors, as lunar tax-collectors, as renegade
brewers, as chalana arroy priestesses, as yelmic stuffed-shirts, as
sons of nobles who are out of the line of succession, as hopeful
administrators, as ship captains, and all sorts of things that don't
require such specialized war skills.

My current crew of Carmanian troublemakers of the House Osanai
1. sorceror's apprentice (Carm. Orthodox)
2. tongue-tied hunter/warrior (Carm. Orthodox)
3. naturally gifted warrior/wildman (Valind)
4. female cross-dressing soldier (Yelm)
5. frighteningly single-minded killing machine (Humakt, lots of Gifts)
6. foreign hireling, a female healer from Brolia (Chalana Arroy)

Even in a fairly combat-intensive wilderness-chase scenario the
dominant characters are the sorceror's apprentice and the healer. This
does not say to me that fighting characters dominate Gloranthan
roleplaying. That's why I don't think that an easily abused system
like OTE would promote all-warrior campaigns in Glorantha, certainly
not any more than RQ's emphasis on fighting skills and rules already

> OTE is a game in which not everyone will be a fighter, and in a world 
> dominated by warriors it would loose some of it's appeal.

My solution is to NOT emphasize warriors in my game.

> Incedentally I think there's an OTE/Glorantha thread on 
>, but I'm not a member at present.

Right. In fact, this thread is an echo of it.

Loren Miller       
I can tell by your shoes that you are a lover of liberty


From: (Brent Krupp)
Subject: Somebody's criticism of RunePower...
Date: 15 Sep 94 02:52:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6229

> From: (Clayton, Lynne)
> Message-ID: <>
> Date: 14 Sep 94 13:42:32 GMT
> X-RQ-ID: 6203
> Continued From: Paul Honigmann, Oxford, UK
> ===========================================
> 2.  If everyone could fire whatever spells they wanted whenever they wished,
>     - assuming they have recharged their pool - then EVERY Orlanthi will use
>     almost EXACTLY the same spells in a given situation. Ie: commit everything
>     to a huge Shield, Thunderbolt or Teleport out of there. The same goes for
>     all other cults. Result: you can predict almost exactly what a rune magic
>     user will do in combat, as long as you know his approximate age so you
>     can guess what his Rune Magic budget is likely to be, and cult.

This is a very silly objection. Because RunePower makes spell-casting more
flexible, everyone is really predictable? Huh? Flexibility = Flexibility.
There are still lots of tactical options, and if you can guess what
someone will cast, you can as easily guess what someone will have
sacrificed for over the years. Besides, RunePower makes Dismiss Magic more
readily availavle, so as to cancel out others' magic. That's a definite
*addition* to the posssible options in Rune-level combat. 

> 3.  It's powergaming.

Ah, yes, this makes *so* much sense. Let's arbitrarily assign a
self-defined word to something we don't like. *Please*. Have you even read
the original RunePower write-up? (it's at soda) It is argued for in
GLORANTHAN terms -- not from a mechanical standpoint. 

Brent Krupp (


From: (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Funky birds
Message-ID: <>
Date: 15 Sep 94 23:29:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6230

Alex wrote:

> Until the Theyalans contacted the Dara Happans, they had no reason to make
> any en masse feathered creatures -> sky gods -> bad association.  I'm sure
> many bird types are regarded as "good" by Sartarites, even in the present
> (indeed, some are clan totems), though latter-day Orlanthi cult strictures
> might lead one to think otherwise.  Mind you, I'd like to see some funky
> Wind Child myths too if anyone has any keen ideas.

OK, I've been workin for 12+ hours straight on, so I'm tired enough to
make up something really idiotic:

In ancient times some humans bred with big birds. Some of the offspring
were wise and worhsipped mighty Orlanth. Some of them weren't so smart,
so they worshipped Eurmal instead. The Orlanth worshippers became the
beautiful wind children, gifted with air powers by the storm god. Eurmal
being the trickster, didn't gift his worshippers with anything, instead
he played a trick on them: they became the ducks.

/Nils W (the One True, and I actually have a rune, sort of, which I use
to sign 'works of art' for example)


From: (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 15 Sep 1994
Message-ID: <>
Date: 15 Sep 94 08:31:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6231

>Under Sandy's structure the only use of [truestone] is as a device  
>to give the players a spell they normally wouldn't be able to cast. 

	It is a way to pool magic power, and to leave it behind when  
you die, so that your spells aren't lost to the temple. 

Paul Honigmann (or is it Lynnn Clayton?) successfully verbalizes my  
own feelings about why I dislike the Rune Pool:

>1.  half the fun of Rune Magic is agonising over what to sacrifice  

>2.  EVERY Orlanthi will use almost EXACTLY the same spells in a  
>given situation.
>3.  It's powergaming.

'Nuff said, for me. 

Joerg B. 

>Who says that the Sartarite herders don't use the peaceful cut when 

>they slaughter their cattle or sheep?  The earth cults seem to do so  
>on swine (otherwise the Bloody Cut of the Tusk Riders wouldn't have  
>been that offensive).
	Me. Here goes: The Sartarite Herders Don't Use Peaceful Cut  
When They Slaughter Their Beasts. How's that? 

	If they do say a little prayer over their animal killings,  
it's not as ritualized as the Praxian system (which is a _spell_, for  
crying out loud). The Bloody Cut is something different entirely --  
it actually traps the animal's soul and keeps it from recycling. Even  
if you don't think the Peaceful Cut is necessary, that doesn't mean  
you'd approve of the horrible Bloody Cut under any circumstances  


From: (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: Nick's WMMTM
Message-ID: <940915194053_100102.3001_BHJ46-2@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 94 19:40:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6232

Hi all,

Nick, I would very much like to read you Esrolian WMMTM here on the Daily.

Or some of your Carmanian material.

Or some more folk tales...


Greg Fried mentions the White Buffalo in Wisconsin (Wa? Wi? Wo? Sorry, I'm a
Brit).  I used a similar theme for the first scenario in my Prax campaign about
18 mths ago.  It was vaguely inspired by the White Buffalo myth of the

Basically, the clan Daka Fal shaman learned from his travels on the spirit plain
that a Golden Bison had emerged from the Eiritha hills.  Since the beast was
Golden and a Bison all sorts of people wanted it.  The Yelmalions, the Storm
Bulls, the Bison tribe and just about every clan on the plains that could trade
the thing with any of the preceeding three groups.  The PC's had to find it,
keep it (and retrieve it once they had lost it) and then take it to the Block at
their Khan's behest to trade it for Truestone to be used in the next quest he
had in mind for them (but that's another story).

All good fun, not least of which was my Zebra riding PC's trying to pass off a
badly dyed Golden Bison calf as being the very sort of thing that any
self-respecting bunch of Zebra braves would troll around with.


All the best,



From: (Carlson, Pam)
Subject: White Bison, Prax Beasties
Message-ID: <>
Date: 15 Sep 94 21:11:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6233

Greg Fried write about the white bison:

> but the legend of the Lakota Sioux was that White
>Buffalo Woman would return as a white buffalo to signal a great turn of
>fortune for the Sioux people -- and for humanity as a whole.

I heard roughly the same on National Public Radio earlier this week.  The 
words "harbinger of world peace" were mentioned.

>Ideas for RQ scenario, anyone?!  A white buffalo is born to a mother who 
>been taken prison by the Sables ... who are SURE it should be RED.... and 
>going about a heroquest to make it so.....  Your Bison clan to the rescue!

Well, as I'm sure y'all know, I'm already reffing  four young bison riders 
chasing around the Wastes after a white bison calf.  This real world story 
is kinda handy, as I'm as yet uncertain just what this calf signifies for 
Prax.  (So far, it just appears  in dreams and pleads for help.)   I'm not 
sure Praxians would get all exited about world peace, however.

Wasn't Argrath referred to as a "White Bull" at one point?

Of course, the calf's immediate goal is not to become Basmoli Burgers - and 
then Morokanth Menu, and then Lunar Lunch...
My bison riders never miss a role-playing opportunity.  While visiting an 
oasis, they demanded all the luxuries:  meat, veggies, beer, women. 
(Ishinta, the Eritha initate, was disgusted).  The oasis folk resentfully 
trotted out their nomad cross women, who I figured would be the lowest 
status women there, and would be expected to fill the occasional role of 
prostitues.  Braxas fell for his oasis woman, who, being of such low status, 
was only too happy to leave with him.  Kharamina knows what to do with a 
turnip, and has learned how to take care of the bison.  She also knows more 
World Lore than any of the party, due to her experience with visitors.  Now 
Braxas wants to buy her armor, and is terribly preoccupied with keeping her 
safe in combat.  The rest of the party, resentful, wants to use her as bait!

Sandy - thanks for the Praxian herds info.  Now to sit down with a map and 
figure out where everybody tends to frequent.

I've been thinking about the Basmoli lately, and collecting input from those 
intrepid lion fans Brian Maloney and Chris Wehman.  I've put Basmoli in the 
wastes, frequenting rocky outcrops and foothills for much the same reason 
Morokanth do - protection from riders.  My Wastes have big rocks, like the 
kopjes of the Serengetti plains, or the jebels of Arabia.  Basmoli like to 
live in them for shelter and for the views of potential prey.  Sound 


From: (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Complete Lunacy
Message-ID: <940916002556_100270.337_BHL47-2@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 16 Sep 94 00:25:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6234

DH>> How can any of this waffle help me GM or play the damn game? 

AF> Straw man, since only a Complete Loonie (hi Nick?) would even attempt
AF> to play a game in Dara Happa (latter day or otherwise)...

Nah, not me... at least, not until I've run a Pendragonesque generation- 
jumping theologically-volatile History of Carmania (with lots of DH bits 
thrown in {like they really were} for good measure)...

Mind you, I may yet get to be Dara Happan Emperor at the Broken Council!
Full proskyneses all round, my loyal subjects.

AF> I noticed the Karandoli being exterminated twice

Not as bad as poor old Dorestadt (sp?) in the ninth century: this little 
town was completely destroyed by the Vikings three times in four years, if 
memory and chronicles serve. Makes you wonder why they kept going back.



From: (David Cheng)
Subject: RQ Merchandise, et al.
Date: 16 Sep 94 03:03:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6235

Hello all!  It's been a while since I've posted anything of note.  I can
hardly keep up with the Daily as it is, I fear.  Let me crank out a little
post before school swallows me up for good.

I am delighted by the recent discussio, and I feel bad about not jumping in
to more actively defend my beliefs.  Now that Tales #12 is shipping in the
US, I hope to see even more folks ready to tar and feather me for the
blasphemy I spout.  Thanks to all the folks who've sent me individual
comments.  I apologize for not getting back to you on them.  

Yes, we still have a full catalog of stuff.  Here it is...

The RuneQuest-Con Merchandise Catalog

Last Update: September 15, 1994

I've got the following RQ-Con Merchandise still

* The RuneQuest-Con Program Book *
  = 40 Pages (7" x 8.5")
  = 3 Gloranthan Essays by Greg Stafford, Stephen Martin, and
    David Hall.  Lots on the Elmal/Yelmalio schism.
  = Essays by Sandy Petersen, Prof. M.A.R. Barker, and David Cheng
  = International Directory of about 130 RQ-Con Attendees
    Find fellow gamers in your area!
  * $6 + $1 Shipping
  - I have about three dozen of these left

* The Rough Guide to Boldhome
  = 28 pages with a laminated stock Dan Barker cover
  = Invaluable reference on the Sartarite city of Boldhome
    Most of the material in here has not been published anywhere
  * $10 + $2 Shipping
  - I have less than 10 of these left

* Real Lunar Coins
  = Minted in a lead-free alloy
  = EWF Wrym on one side, Red Goddess riding the Crimson Bat
    "All Hail the Reaching Moon" on the other.
  * $2 + $0.50 Shipping each
  - If you buy in multiples of 5, I'll give you a discount
    Tell me how many you want and we'll talk specifics.
  - I've got about 100 of these left

* The RuneQuest-Con Compendium
  = 92 Pages (!) with a Dan Barker cover
  = 7 stories from the "Orlanthi Storytelling Contest"
  = 20 Home of the Bold narratives
  = 35 pages of seminar transcripts
    * The Sixty Questions at the Gloranthan Lore Auction
    * Stafford speaking for an hour on HeroQuesting
    * The Nick Brooke Cultural Exchange
    * Live Action Role Playing
  = MOB's report on Live-Action Trollball
  * $15 + $3 Shipping
  - I've got over 100 of these left, but orders are still
    coming in pretty steadily.

Payment for items:
@ All checks made out to "David Cheng" please.
@ All payments in US funds please.
@ First paid first served - I cannot hold items.
@ Send your payment to:
	David Cheng
	313 East 85th Street, Apt 2C
	New York, NY  10028
	(212) 472-7752 [Before 12 midnight EDT]

Feel free to contact me with any questions

* David Cheng  < or >