Bell Digest v940917p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 17 Sep 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.

X-RQ-ID: index

6239:  = 
 - rewop enuR
6240:  = 
 - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 15 Sep 1994, part 1
6241:  = 
 - Instead of Yelmalio (ptah!) how about Lodril?
6242:  = 
 - Re: Dorestad
6243:  = 
 - Wimpstones?
6244:  = 
 - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 16 Sep 1994
6245:  = 
 - Truestone, No, No, No.
6246:  = 
 - Mind the Oranges Marlon!
6247:  = 
 - Questions (and confessions)
6248:  = 
 - Gustbran
6249:  = 
 - The return of the Bless Crops debate from Hell
6250:  = 
 - Carmanians.
6251:  = 
 - The Basmol Story
6252:  = 
 - A less "in-character" commentary to the Basmol story.
6253:  = 
 - Elmal and Yelmalio
6254:  = 
 - various animals & riders; elves
6255:  = 
 - Spells in a truestone


Subject: rewop enuR
Message-ID: <>
Date: 17 Sep 94 03:56:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6239



Paul Honigmann:
> 2.  If everyone could fire whatever spells they wanted whenever they wished,
>     - assuming they have recharged their pool - then EVERY Orlanthi will use
>     almost EXACTLY the same spells in a given situation. Ie: commit
>     to a huge Shield, Thunderbolt or Teleport out of there. The same goes for
>     all other cults. Result: you can predict almost exactly what a rune magic
>     user will do in combat, as long as you know his approximate age so you
>     can guess what his Rune Magic budget is likely to be, and cult.

A lot of ground has been covered in the RunePower debate a while back, so
I don't want to go into great detail here...

Having actually playtested RunePower, I can assure you that Paul's concerns
didn't arise.  In fact, the effect is the exact opposite: by giving
PCs flexibility, they are able to use a much wider variety of spells than
if they have to pick 'n choose with their precious POW points when sacrificing
for divine spells using the official rules .  How many PCs do you know 
that sacrificed for Wind Words, Paul?

White Buffalo

>Ideas for RQ scenario, anyone?!
Of course, a similar white *rhino* features in that amazing tournament 
"Seven Mothers do 'ave 'em (Amazon Women of the Red Moon)" by fellow Aussies
John Hughes, et. al.  May be played at RQ Con II (BYO Rubber Chicken).




Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 15 Sep 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <>
Date: 16 Sep 94 08:14:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6240

Devin here:

While eagerly reading my TOTRM 12, I noticed in the Granite Phalanx writeup
that certain officers can get the spell of MoonSpear from their Lunar
connection. Pray tell kind sirs and ladies....what doth this spell do?

Also, loved Warhamster and the Medicine Bundle Step Ladder. I hope, frankly,
to one day see all of the counters from Nomad Gods fully explained in RQ



From: (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Instead of Yelmalio (ptah!) how about Lodril?
Message-ID: <>
Date: 17 Sep 94 10:09:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6241

David Scott

>>True, but in Glorantha, there are numinous beings in the otherworld known as
>>gods.  If you worship them *correctly* you will gain benefits from them.  The
>>religious beliefs of a culture are an attempt to worship a god or pantheon in
>>such a way that it maximises the benefit that culture recieves.

>I think you have to be a bit careful here as different peoples worshipping
>the same god may well have different ideas about what exactly is correct.

Fair enough.  By 'correctly', I mean to successfully performed the rites 
to worship the god.  It is my belief that there is no one true way to 
worship a god.  Lodril indead has a good many modes of worship
ie Solf:  Drunken Stupour
   Deshlotralas:  Conquerer of the Underworld.
   Gustbran:  God of Smiths.
   Lodril the traitor:  Dara Hapan circumsicion myths.
   Oakfed:  Holy Pyromanical purifier.
   Vent:  The Volcano.
   Mahome:  The hearthfire.
   Ghelotralas:  Messenger to below.
   Lodril helotus:  Peasants God
   Burning Spear:  the Sky Spear
   Lodril pamaltelas:  Ruler of Pamalt.

All these are correct ways to worship Lodril.  Oakfed et al are 
significantly different for quibbling god learners to classify them
as sub cults but the others are valid ways of describing lodril.  But
none of them are more correct than the other.

>From their view, what they are doing is correct and so any feedback they
>get from their god will be correct. I don't think that cultures would
>actively try to minimax their gods, as it's a bit to godlearnerish. 

Agreed.  maximizing the benefit the god gives was an objective description 
of the myths that a culture has.  The cult would only actively promote
the myths that offer it solutions to its problems.  ie if Lodrilite 
peasantry in the Redlands were oppressed by Pentish nomads, they would be 
more likely to promote the myth of the Burning spear instead of the myth
of Solf.

I hope this clears a lot of things up.

-Peter Metcalfe


From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Dorestad
Message-ID: <9409161217.AA09628@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 16 Sep 94 13:17:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6242

Nick Brooke:
>AF> I noticed the Karandoli being exterminated twice

>Not as bad as poor old Dorestadt (sp?) in the ninth century: this little 
>town was completely destroyed by the Vikings three times in four years, if 
>memory and chronicles serve. Makes you wonder why they kept going back.

Probably because it was one of the few places where you could actually
build anything to last.  Vikings notwithstanding.

The Low Countries have had a notorious reputation for consisting
of either forest, marsh or water.  Not many really dry places...

In fact, there's still a town near the place where Dorestad used
to be (not far from where I live...) named "Wijk bij Duurstede".

I also learned that ultimately, the harbours of the town 
got filled with sand and mud, and after extending the quays
every couple of years, they just didn't bother to keep up
and trade moved to other towns...

Henk	|	Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[]	|	RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
	|	x15338		-- ask me about /etc/rc2.d/S80lpconfig


From: (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Wimpstones?
Message-ID: <>
Date: 16 Sep 94 16:27:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6243

T.J.Minas in X-RQ-ID: 6226

>     So, what happens when you cast your spells into a Truestone?
>They go into the stone, you lose the use of them until they are
>cast from the stone, when you may go and pray to regain them.
>Effectively, whilst in the stone, the spells are "in use", and
>you may NEVER regain any spell that is still "in use"

Yes, I know, but I still feel that with the existence of Matrixes,
truestone just becomes a relatively cheap way to create big divine spell
matrixes - and these stones/matrixes are deeply flawed in that they can't
regenerate spells on their own the way normal matrixes can.

>     Second point. Biturian casts "all [his] Power for a day" into
>a truestone. IE puts all his MP into it. Do blank Truestones
>therefore act as MP storage crystals, with a capacity set by how
>many MP are put into them in the first place?

I would assume so. CoP also mentions Sages storing "knowledge" in them,
whatever that means.

>It IS rather more
>useful than a Divine Matrix, as well as a lot more prestigious,
>if you ask me.

Well, not if you ask me: I would never _throw_ my most prestigious magic
item at some mangy broo!

As I've implied before, I want Truestones to just 'freeze' cast spells,
keep them in Stasis (closely related to Law) if you will, until they are
called for. This would mean that the person filling the stone _has_ cast
the spell (and can thus regain it as normal), it just hasn't taken effect
yet. This modification makes truestone really fearsome, some might even say
'gross', but I would also make it much more scarce than some people seem to
be assuming. I mean, I would never let a _player_character_ get his/her
grubby hands on something like this!

>     A Fourth Point. If I, as an Orlanthi, find a Truestone on
>a Lunar corpse (whom I have just made so!), and discover that it
>has an Excommunication spell therein, can I use this spell to
>excommunicate Lunars or Orlanthi?

Neither, I'd say. Excommunication isn't just a spell IMO, the deity checks
if it's being performed by someone with appropriate cult status and a good
reason, since losing a worshipper is always a bad thing and no god wants a
decrease in power just because some priest has a personal vendetta against
an initiate.

(      Jonas Schiott                                   )
(      Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria      )
(      Goteborgs Universitet                           )


From: (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 16 Sep 1994
Message-ID: <>
Date: 16 Sep 94 05:33:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6244


To repeat some of the bare biological facts about these beasties: 

	Breeding occurs throughout the year, but mating peaks happen  
at the very start and the very end of the dry season. The gestation  
period is almost exactly a year and a half. The calf weighs 40-65 kg,  
and is shaky and unable to move quickly for 2-3 days. 

	When frightened, the calf runs _ahead_ of the mother, unlike  
every other herd animal. Weaning of the calf commences at 2 months,  
but nursing continues sporadically for well over a year. 

	A female rhino normally gives birth every 2-3 years, almost  
always to a single calf. They drive off their previous calf just  
before the new one is ready to be born. Females and males both reach  
sexual maturity at 4-5 years, but a female does not reach her full  
size until around 7 years old. Males don't reach full size until  
10-12 years old (!). Rhinos live a long time, and remain  
reproductively active for that time -- a 40-year old female will  
still mate and drop a calf every 3 years or so. Normally rhinos live  
to an age of 40-50. 

Now, for some Herd Man Facts:

A herd man is a mammal. It has six sides: right and left, and upper  
and lower, and inside and out. At the back of it it has a behind  
padded good. With this behind, he sits down on the rocks and on the  
soil so he doesn't have to stand. The head is for to grow hair and so  
his mouth can be somewhere. The hair is to tangle burrs with and the  
mouth is to yell with. It has always been that way, I think. And then  
in front of the girl herd man hangs milk. It is all fixed nice for  
the milking. Now when people milk, milk comes and it don't never seem  
to stop. How the girl herd man does it I have not yet realized, but  
if you ever get around one you will find it makes more and more all  
the time. Now about the smell. The herd man has a fine sense of smell  
and you can smell it far away. This is one reason why there should be  
much fresh air in Prax. But there isn't. When it is hungry it yells  
and when it don't say nothing at all it is because its insides are  
full up with grass or gas. And that is all about a herd man. 



From: (Nick Eden)
Subject: Truestone, No, No, No.
Date: 16 Sep 94 18:20:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6245

In-Reply-To: <9409150715.AA20281@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
David Blizzard Writes
        "I like Sandy's rules on truestones, although I find them a bit
limiting.  Why throw a reusable spell into a blank truestone?  It becomes
one-use, the use from the truestone.  The only use is to give the spell
to a person who normally couldn't use the spell, and at what cost?  You
lose both a valuable piece of Godtime plus the use of your spell."

        You are missing the point of Rune Magic. It's not yours to do 
what you want with, it's a gift from your God and should be used as such.
        If a member of your temple is embarking on a quest then you give 
them some help. Perhaps you give him the Fireblade matrix that you made 
years ago. Perhaps you give him a good horse, or provisions. Perhaps you 
give him your magic.
        Certainly you can't, and never could dump the spell into the 
truestone several times so that you can release it more rapidly than you 
could prepare it. What it effectively does mean is that you can sacrifice 
POW (in the medium term) for the benefit of your temple or a 
representitive of that temple.  
        "However, this does help get rid of those obnoxious truestones 
likethe one in the Sun Dome Temple in Sun County.  I've always hated that 
oneeven though the creation made sense if you didn't lose the spell.  Now
only a very safe & peaceful temple would have them (like a Chanala Arroy
temple).  Now the creation of such a truestone would drain the temple
of almost all it's magical resources.  How would you like your entire
priesthood of a temple to have all it's reusable spells made one-use until
they can resacrifice for them.  Gee, the High Priest has been building up
his reusable spells for 25 years, it will now take him another 25 years
to regain them (not likely)."

        But of the High Priest is on his death bed and knows it, the 
Guardian of Power will, with great ritual, bring the temple Truetone to 
the Priest who will leave the gifts that he has been granted by his God 
for the benefit of the God's temple and people.

************************************************************** (Nick Eden)
Has it never occured to you that the Romans counted backwards?
(Be honest.)


From: (Nick Eden)
Subject: Mind the Oranges Marlon!
Date: 16 Sep 94 18:20:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6246

In-Reply-To: <9409150716.AA20539@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
>Like motorbikes?  *Groan*  I can imagine 'the wild tribe' set in Adari 
>when a
>gang of impala riders zoom into the city streets lead by a marlon brando
>lookalike and they terrorize the population...

Brando may not be the tallest actor around, but he's not THAT short!

************************************************************** (Nick Eden)
Has it never occured to you that the Romans counted backwards?
(Be honest.)


From: (Martin Glassborow)
Subject: Questions (and confessions)
Date: 16 Sep 94 20:39:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6247

Subere and Cult-Spirits

Subere gets various darkness-spirits as cult spirits, amongst these Hags. 

Hags and Sorcery

Hags get sorcery as their 'magic' according to the Creatures book, do 
Gloranthan Hags also get sorcery? Or is the opinion that in Glorantha 
they get spirit magic instead. If so, any ideas who taught them in the 
first place? 

Hags, Shades (and a confession of a power-gamer)

Hags can create Shades from darkness simply by expending magic points, 
do people have any ideas/opinions whether they could use stored power, 
i.e crystals etc, to produce whopping big nasty Shades? I used to play in 
a group (of admittedly mad power-gamers, which IMHO is okay as long as 
everyone realises that) which allowed this. I playing a power-crazed Duck 
(who joined Xiola Umbar and then Subere) used this tactic to bind big, 
big, BIG Shades. If this is legit, this means that Subere shrines and 
temples could have really nasty temple defences.


I haven't got my various troll supplements to hand, but can Dehores 
(intelligent shades) turn off their fear-shock? Could a bunch of trolls 
hide in a Dehore?

Xiola Umbar and Resurection

It always bothered me that Xiola Umbar doesn't get access to resurection, 
even on a one-use basis. Then it struck me, that most Xiola Umbar 
cultists are also in Kyger Litor, which does. But it still seems a tad 
odd that they don't get access in their own right. 

Yelm and Xiola Umbar

I seem to remember from the Cult compatibilty tables (this going back 
some), that Yelm and Xiola Umbar are neutral with each other, as she 
comforted him in hell. On the subject of greetings, I've been trying to 
think up a suitable greeting/exchange between these two when cultists of 
theirs meet? Ideas? Or do Yelm cultists just loftily ignore it? Perhaps 
Xiola Umbar cultists sing a greeting?



Subject: Gustbran
Message-ID: <>
Date: 16 Sep 94 18:19:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6248

Does anyone have anything written up on Gustbran the Smith? One of my
characters is playing the son of the smith in Garhound and I don't want to
deal with Third Eye Blue in a PC.
Mark Foster


From: (Nick Eden)
Subject: The return of the Bless Crops debate from Hell
Date: 16 Sep 94 22:25:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6249

In-Reply-To: <9409160716.AA28017@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
>Bless Crops
>     (Not AGAIN, everyone says) Just a comment. If you seem to
>need Bless Crops to grow stuff in Genertela, how come the Malkioni
>haven't starved yet after 1620 years without Bless Crops?

I assumed that Bless Crops was one of those spells that everybody cast on 
their lands, not out of the knowledge that if you do it the grass will be 
as high as an elephant's eye, and if you don't it won't, but because the 
first thing you do when sea season has come and you set the plow to the 
soil is offer thanks and praise to the goddess of the land that fed you 
over the winter and will feed you this year.

The Malkioni obviously have a similar Rite. On the feast of St Dromal the 
local Priest/Wizard will lead all the farmers in a ceremony that thanks 
the Invisible God for his bounty. It'll be done differently, because 
different cultures do things in a different way, but effect is the same.

I do think that we've got to stop thinking in terms of 'Spell, 2points, 
resuable' and start thinking in terms of the role the magic serves in the 
world/society. There's a lot of magic out there that makes damn all use 
to warriors, but it vital to make the societies work. Spells like Bless 
Crops, Create Market and so on are central to the worship of their gods.

>In fact, given that Unicorn riders have to be
>celibate, I suspect that a number of them are Lesbians.

Surely not. Lesbian sex is not consistant with celibacy. With being a 
virgin in a stricly medical sense perhaps, but not with denying youself 
pleasures of the flesh.

>The unicorn tribe is all female, so I would expect many of the young 
girls >growing up there to see lesbian relationships as the normal thing, 
and to >downplay the Yelm patriachal model)

Well no. Not quite. Depending on how you define tribe. The members of the 
tribe are female, that is to say, the warriors, the people who can become 
elders, those that we listen to in the fire circle. But there are men 
(were do you think these Unicorn girls come from?) 

There are certainly men in Unicorn camps - slave men. They do the menial 
work and are used by the women when they fancy a bitof the other. What a 
Unicorn child doesn't see is patriachal marriage. She see's her mother 
and the other women in the tribe living good fullfilled lives and using 
men for sex when they feel like it.

>     Incidentally, that comment probably applies to Babeestor Gor
>too. Of whom I think there are none in Prax. The Paps has its own
>unique Guardians (Serpent headed women, or women headed serpents,
>i can't recall which!)

Are now I'm with you, but do remember that Babeestor Gor women aren't of 
themselves a society. Like humakti they make a part of society, serving a 
purpose within it, but not being the dominant part. Actually I'd be 
inclind to think that a Babeester Gor woman getting worried about sex 
didn't have a true vocation, be it sex with a woman or with a man. (Woman 
headed serpants)

>     I can't realistially see them admiring Troll society. After
>all, most humans don't know that Trolls are ruled by women, and
>assume (once they see all those ZZ Death Lords and KL Kaarg's
>Sons) that it is a patriachal society like most human ones.

Certainly not. Trolls are DARKNESS and Darkness is EVIL!

>Pavic teleportation
>     No, this is not some strange new Rune spell! What it is,
>however, is a comment based on looking at the Nomad Gods map again
>and reading certain passages in RoC. On the NG map, the city of
>New Pavis (2 hexes!) is SOUTH of the Zola Fel and WEST of the
>Rubble. In RoC/Pavis etc, it is NORTH of the Zola Fel and EAST
>of the Rubble! What gives? 

Well it's South of the river and to the West of the old city in my copy.

>     On a related note, in NG, the Sun Dome Temple is also north
>and east of the Zola Fel! 

Well it's certainly to the east, though the river is pretty much 
North-South by then, so North of the river's pretty meaningless. The map 
in the front of Sun County struck me as having several places al bit out 
of place - Moonbroth is too high and the Sun Dome quite a bit too low.

>Pol Joni
>     According to the G:CotHW books, the Pol Joni number about
>Five thousand. This makes them smaller than the independent tribes
>(I would say) yet they manage 6 counters (and 3 magicians!) in
>WB&RM/DP to the independents 1 counter each in NG. And my private
>copy of Praxpak implies that there are more like FIFTY thousand.
>Anybody out there have any answers on this one?

I would suggest that your copy of Praxpak is wrong. 50,000 is a smeg of a 
lot of people, especially people that are marginalised by the dominant 
culture of an area. Various historial documents, including the Bible, 
lots of medaevil writings and king of Sartar tend to exagerate numbers an 
awful lot to make a point. 50,000 wouldn't be sustainable without the PJ 
filling all of Prax.

************************************************************** (Nick Eden)
Has it never occured to you that the Romans counted backwards?
(Be honest.)