From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 24 Sep 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6349: =
- GL secret still unrevealed
6350: =
- On Pamaltela and NOT Yelmalio.
6351: =
- Lewis on Styx Water and Truestone
6352: =
- Vinga
6353: =
- a hunter god story
6354: =
- Whither Joe Scott? Whither RQ4?
6355: =
- among the Praxians (P. Michaels)
6356: =
- re: Bryan's Basmoli Song (P. Michaels)
6357: =
- Jungles
6358: =
- Jungle fertility
6359: =
- Yelmalion women, NME
6360: =
- RQ4 no Email, NME
---------------------
From: niwe@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: GL secret still unrevealed
Message-ID: <9409230808.AA25559@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 23 Sep 94 12:08:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6349
Sandy in reply to Alex:
> Now see here wiseacre. I happen to _know_ the damn secret of
> the God Learners. At least, when I explained my beliefs to Greg, he
> told me that them was the right ones, and not to tell anyone else
> ever. But I might tell _you_ Alex, in hopes of getting the Gift
> Carriers to nail you. ;)
OK, Greg won't tell the secret, Sandy won't tell the secret etc.
I guess all we terminally curious individuals will have to live with
that and keep speculating on our own, but has someone ever heard
Greg say _why_ he won't share the secret?
/Nils W
---------------------
From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: On Pamaltela and NOT Yelmalio.
Message-ID: <01HHGUGWBXQQ8WXU88@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 24 Sep 94 10:27:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6350
Paul Reilly
===========
>It seemed to many people (e.g., me, others
>around here, John Hughes who wrote an article about it) that Genert(ela) and
>Pamalt(ela) were sort of mirror-twins in many, many, many ways. I.e., that
>these "inverse parallels" were part of the fabric of Glorantha.
I once thought that too. But after reading ToTRM#11, I think to hold that view
now requires some bloody strange blinkers.
>Genert was among the first to fight, Pamalt was among the last.
Hardly any inverse parallelism here. Chaos came from the north where
ragnaglar's lands were.
>Genert stood alone. Pamalt used cooperation and leaned on his friends.
hmm. The Copper Warriors, The Sky Spears, the White Elves, the Golden People
and our own ancestors plus Yamsur, Tada and All Eyes Open But One. Hardly what
I call fighting on ones own.
>Genertela:Cities are bastions of "goodness" and Law; swamps are often Chaotic
>Pamaltela: Swamps are healthy sources of life; cities often in grip of Chaos
For the inverse parallelism to be true, the Goblin marshes are bastions of
Goodness(!). Mind you there is the forest of disease and the acid lakes in
Pamaltela. For the Cities, not all are Fonritian. The Umathelans and the Elf
Coasts are urbanized and both seem very 'good' the last time I looked. The
Sodal Marsh (correct me if I'm wrong) is not a Chaos Hellhole.
>Genert: Human Conflict Pamalt: Human Cooperation (in interior)
hmm. The Arbennan and the Kresh are friends? Fonritian slaver expeditions
into Jolar are benign? The exigers are peaceful? The Six Legged Empire was
well recieved? Kralorela and Teshnos war with each other?
>Genert: Elf-Troll wars Pamalt: Elf-Troll coexistence (Muri)
The trolls of the Tarmo raid the Elves of Enkloso and they're just as
Pamaltelean as the Muri. The Muri also hunt yellow elves, they were forced not
to do this only during the lifetime of Errinoru.
>Genert: Continent shrinking (Slontos etc.), Pamalt: Continent Growing (Kimos)
They worship other gods in Kimos besides Lodril. Maran Gor is one and Tidal
Wave may be another. And name another place besides Kimos.
>Genert: Metal abundant, Pamalt: Metal scarce (IMO)
In your own opinion. The Doraddi spears require metal. Where do they get
them. As for the lack of armour, Pamaltela is hot. You don't want to cook
yourself fighting there!
The best idea is to drop this silly concept of Pamalt and Genert being
parallels of each other. Note that Lodril came before Pamalt. Yet who rule
Pamaltela during the Green Age before the Sky Gods touched down?
My belief is that the Emperor of the Green Age was Molandro (who is cited in
the RQ companion as Keeper of the Earthly powers who were before Yelm). Before
him in the ages of the seas ruled He who Moves. Molandro deposed of he who
moves in the Conest of war by using the dragonewt rune to grow a race of
Dragons who dismembered He who Moves (Annilla Cult writeup). Now When Yelm and
Lodril touch down, they try the contests against Molandro. Molandro beats them
in the early contests (yes the same rituals Orlanth used) and assigned them
posts on opposite sides of the Earth. Yelm recieves Genertela who is the
oldest son and toughest son of molandro whereas Lodril recieves Pamaltela with
the earth god guarding there 'looking after' Lodril.
Yelm corrupts Molandro to his cause by presenting Yamsur as a hostage (or a
catamite which would explain where the Praxian Sun Domers get it from...) and
then wars against Molandro and conquers the Spike for the Aetheric Cause.
Lodril beats the other god to a bloody pulp and nothing survives on Pamaltela
save for the Promalti, the men of fire, who are the first recorded life form
from what I have heard. Pamalt of unknown origins comes afterwards. pamaltela
is so called because the GL's thought he was the Southern equivalent of Genert
and they didn't know the name of the one who was before. The natives would
have called it something like the South or the Great Land or something similar.
Yet Ymore Yelmalio Ycrap Yfrom YAlex
====================================
>Peter Metcalfe hopes to get the Last word on Yelmalio, and get in a few(?)
>sly digs in the process:
I did not hope to get the last word in on Yelmalio. I merely said that the
others were probably getting sick of the debate so if you wanted to continue
it, please take it offline. Why didn't you?
And now for a detailed rebuttal of Alex's gumpf
Ha Ha Ha. Only joking.
Nothing of what Alex posted sufficently warrants an in depth rebuttal in the
Daily for the very simple fact that no one would not read it. the offer of an
offline debate still stands.
--Peter Metcalfe.
---------------------
From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Lewis on Styx Water and Truestone
Message-ID: <9409231140.AB23603@Sun.COM>
Date: 23 Sep 94 11:44:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6351
Styx Water:
1) It should not be free. I would charge the character 1 POW per small one use vial. Although I am happy with the opposed WILL roll option (but how
do you define WILL)?
2) Ghosts are NOT undead thus they are not destroyed by Styx water.
However the Styx is the Mother of all waters and thus especially hard to cross, even for ghosts. (If you don't think ghosts are not undead look up the Humakti ghost in SPH, remember it is impossible to turn even Humakti initiates into
undead and the ghost is a Sword!) Ghosts are just spirits...
3) I like the idea of Styx water progressively deadening the area it
touches. Obviously full imersion is leathal, but what about a splash with a
drop, this will kill a vampire but if full imersion kills a human then a drop
must do something. Maybe each drop reduces sensation in the affected location
by 5% or 1 point of stat (DEX). However, it also toughens the skin as it
converts it from living tissue to dead matter. I would suggest 1 point of
skin armour per drop. Thus if you dipped your hand into the Styx it would
come out immobile and unfeeling, but virtually indestructable (only criticals
affect it?). I imagine Humakti might treat certain portions of their anatomy
here when questing (they would also take a couple of drops back with them to
deal with any especially pesky vampires). The classic solution to the wear
no armour on limb geas is to make the limb closer to Death and sprinkle it
with a few drops of Styx water. If it costs 1 POW per drop taken away for
good I would assume it would cost 1 MP for such temporary usage, remember after touching you the water will evapourate and make its way back to the river.
This idea is not totally original and is inspired by Kali's Death Bath in
Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny.
NB remember that MPs are not regainable while on the Heroplane. Also if you
put 10 drops on your shield arm it would have a DEX SR based on your DEX - 10,
your skill bonuses with that arm would be based on DEX - 10 and all the existingskills which use that arm would be reduced by 50%! This could of course be
rerained but a splash of Styx water is by no means highly desirable.
Truestone:
1) The old fable is that the timeless nature of TS allows Divine Magic
to be cast from it on the Heroplane without being permanently lost.
2) I definately subscribe to the school which says your spells cannot
be regained while they are in the Truestone (sorry I believe that Bituran was
telling the truth).
3) I still hanker after the number of points rule implied by RQ2.
I would suggest 1 point per 1/100th kg or 10 grams (the weight of a coin).
The stone could be used to store 5 MPs or 5% knowledge instead of a point.
How skills and knowledge are used is left to the GM... A blank stone is very
useful as it can be hurled at an opponent and will absorb ALL the Divine
magic currently running on them. Perhaps the best way to view this is the
Temporal Freezer idea already suggested. A spell inside a TS is in Stasis
until it is realeased. A TS could be used to store a skill too but this
would only be usable once when it was released (and would use the holders
skill bonus, not the person's who placed the skill in the stone). Of course
placing a skill in a TS is a fairly desparate measure as it is unusable until
released from the stone!
NB if a TS is used to knock down protective spells the spells will be absorbed
and can be recast, but their total duration is unaffected. Thus time already
used is subtracted from the total. One limitation is that a specific casting
of a spell can only be absorbed by a TS ONCE, no cast Shield 4 from TS fight
lasts for 4 minutes reabsorb remaining 11 minutes of spell for next fight!!!
The above explains why TS allows Divine magic to be regained as no time has
elapsed while the party were on the heroplane.
Lewis
---------------------
From: MarkM57378@aol.com
Subject: Vinga
Message-ID: <9409230927.tn153949@aol.com>
Date: 23 Sep 94 13:27:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6352
Henk,
Is it possible for you to send me the daily from 2 weeks ago? It was
on a friday. I am specifically looking for the vinga cult writeup.
Mark
---------------------
From: ACCRANDY@minna.acc.iit.edu
Subject: Whither Joe Scott? Whither RQ4?
Message-ID: <01HHG76QXAPI94EN4H@minna.acc.iit.edu>
Date: 23 Sep 94 06:22:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6354
Just a brief note.
A phone call to Avalon Hill brought the response that Joseph Scott
was no longer with that company, and that he had departed about a
week ago.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Randy Tomaszewski ACCRANDY@minna.aac.iit.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: PMichaels@aol.com
Subject: among the Praxians (P. Michaels)
Message-ID: <9409231523.tn177648@aol.com>
Date: 23 Sep 94 19:23:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6355
All this discussion about Elmal/Yelmalio/that sun guy has got
me wondering something, which I would like to ask for
opinions about...
CoP indicates that there are some worshippers of Yelmalio in
all Praxian tribes except the Morocanth. (Although I imagine
that the Unicorn tribe worshippers can safely be said to
worship Yelorna, not Yelmalio.) What form does this cult take
among the nomads? How do these worshippers relate to the
Sun Dome folks (assuming that they stay with their tribe, and
don't just run away to join the Domers)? Is there a difference
in the gifts/geases available? Do they have shamans? What is
the cult structure? How do these cultists relate to the Waha
and Eiritha worshippers?
Any and all thoughts are welcome.
Peace,
Peter
---------------------
From: PMichaels@aol.com
Subject: re: Bryan's Basmoli Song (P. Michaels)
Message-ID: <9409231523.tn177637@aol.com>
Date: 23 Sep 94 19:23:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6356
Bryan:
You sing a good song, and tell a good tale. You also raise some
interesting ideas in your comments. Obviously, the document I found
was from a GL influenced Lhankor Mhy scholar's thesis project. ;-)
However, do you really believe that the Basmoli ( male or female) would
retain such a close connection with their original Pamaltelan myths after
crossing over to Genertela, fighting/being chased across the length of the
continent, Basmol being killed, and then struggling to survive? And, all
of this BEFORE time began? Personally, I don't believe that Third Age
Praxian Basmoli know ANYTHING about Pamalt or Pamaltela. I can
easily hear your story from the First Age, though.
Peace,
Peter
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Jungles
Message-ID: <199409231936.AA21091@radiomail.net>
Date: 23 Sep 94 19:36:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6357
>From: winterg@iia.org (George Winter)
>I learned, through a tour of the Washington National Zoo's AMAZON
>exhibit that the fertility of Jungles is a misconception. The Amazon
>jungle has a very shallow topsoil and once the jungle growth is removed
>crops grow very poorly in it. The best/deepest top-soil is found in
>places like the American Midwest and the Ukraine. The luxurient growth of
>the jungles is rather a testimony to the resourcefulness and tenacity of
>jungle vegetation.
I'm sure real biologists will jump on this, but I thought the rain forest
was so fertile that nothing really had the chance to sit around and decay
and build up layers of topsoil, it was immediately reused. The nutrients
are in the biomass, not in the soil.
The fact that inappropriate agriculture practices don't work shouldn't be
held against the rain forest.
---------------------
From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Jungle fertility
Message-ID: <9409231953.AA20827@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 23 Sep 94 09:53:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6358
Okay, I've seen some recent discoveries regarding South American rainforest
that really sets things on their ear.
For quite some time, biologists have been assuming without evidence that the
relationship between orchids and similar plants and their tree hosts is,
at best, neutral for the tree. That is to say, the tree gets nothing
important out of having a bunch of orchids on its branches.
Well, a biologist finally took a REAL LOOK at the situation directly rather
than sterily theorizing. What was found? "Air plants" produce soil! That
is to say, there are dense mats of "good topsoil" on the tops of tree limbs.
Furthermore, the trees have ROOTS in this "limbsoil". The decaying generations
of orchids produce the soil. Nitrogen is fixed into this "limbsoil" and it
is very rich, indeed.
The "groundsoil" is poor, but that does not mean that Amazonian rainforests
are sterile. You just have to look someplace else. Remember, you can't
assume that place A will be exactly like place B, even in "basic" things.
---------------------
From: pheasant@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: Yelmalion women, NME
Message-ID:
Date: 23 Sep 94 20:47:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6359
In-Reply-To: <9409220715.AA10013@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
\Pretty unlikely in Sun County - very *very* orthodox there. It'd be
\almost\heresy. She'd have better luck in Balazar, where there's a more
liberal\(= primitive, in Yelmalion terms) culture, tolerated but not
approved from
\Sun County, and women can achieve positions of military authority. (E.g.
\Starnia from Dykene, a Light Daughter ["A *what*?" cried the High
Priest] \and
\a Hawk Rider.)
\
\Anyone got perspectives from other Yelmamlion outposts?
Hang on kiddies, are we not forgetting that there's a female Light
whatzit in the Sun County hierachy?
A better question would be why would a Yelornan, who has not joined
Yelmalio's cult want to be a templer - one of Yelmalio's elite? She's got
to be one thing or the other.
**************************************************************
---------------------
From: pheasant@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: RQ4 no Email, NME
Message-ID:
Date: 23 Sep 94 21:11:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6360
In-Reply-To: <9409230716.AA17445@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
Martin Crim lists very sound reasons for not emailing people the RQ4
rules. Anyone know if they are on an FTP site anywhere, or failing that
could Martin be bribed into putting them onto one if he is the official
Gaurdian?
**************************************************************