From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 29 Sep 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6397: Michelle_Ringo = (Michelle Ringo)
- Yelornans
6398: pheasant = (Nick Eden)
- Secrets Remain Secret
6399: pheasant = (Nick Eden)
- Secrets remain Secrets
6400: Argrath = Argrath@aol.com
- Kitori; Pamalt; Porthomeka; YO
6401: scotty = (Scott Haney)
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 28 Sep 1994, part 1
6402: jacobus = (Bryan J. Maloney)
- Battle of Moonbroth.
6403: davidc = (David Cake)
- Pamalt
6404: hasni = (Richard Ohlson)
- Riskland
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From: Michelle_Ringo@ed.gov (Michelle Ringo)
Subject: Yelornans
Message-ID: <9408287807.AA780792798@ed.gov>
Date: 28 Sep 94 20:13:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6397
The Yelorna Saga Continues:
Thanks for everyones clarifications about the Errata,
presumably the Gloranthan economy my Yelornans have been
living in has a huge rate of inflation for crystals, but I
hear the bottom may be dropping out of the crystal market at
least in Sun County and Pavis County.
On the issue of GM wife favoritism. I think that Chris has
felt a need to prove you that he has no favoritism
[Thanks]. Yesterday we were exploring the Big Rubble. We
met a Giant, who smelled blood from some nasty bandits that
we had just dispatched. He was not interested in stopping
for a chat and he swung around with the rather large tree
trunk he was carrying and thwacked my just recently healed
and revived Kelsey on the head and KILLED her!!!! There
were four possible targets and high roll (me) was hit.
Kelsey had a shimmer 4. The Giant as a result had a 30%
chance to hit. There is no justice I tell you.
Fortunately, there is divine intervention. She now has a 9
power, but she is alive and safely with the elves in the
Garden. Chris has now killed both of the Yelornans 3 times
total and of the six Yelmalians only 1 has been killed.
Both Yelornans now have powers at or below 10 and One is out
an 11 point power crystal which until recently was worth
11,000 stars.
---------------------
From: pheasant@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: Secrets Remain Secret
Message-ID:
Date: 28 Sep 94 20:52:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6398
In-Reply-To: <9409270816.AA14988@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
Sandy writes:
"Nils
>has someone ever heard Greg say _why_ he won't share the secret?
Yes. Greg has told me quite explicitly why he won't tell
anyone. I thought it was quite a good reason, too."
And presumably it was "Well it's much more interesting seeing everyone
speculate and come to their own conclusions than have me lead them
everywhere like a shepherd leading sheep." Or something like that.
**************************************************************
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From: pheasant@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: Secrets remain Secrets
Message-ID:
Date: 28 Sep 94 20:52:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6399
In-Reply-To: <9409270816.AA14988@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
Sandy writes
**************************************************************
---------------------
From: Argrath@aol.com
Subject: Kitori; Pamalt; Porthomeka; YO
Message-ID: <9409281846.tn107554@aol.com>
Date: 28 Sep 94 22:46:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6400
Re: Kitori
Glad to see this discussed. Anyone want to take a stab at
the inevitable origin myth or explicate the historical pressures
that led to this atypical situation? My thought on this is that
at some historical point the human and troll clans "discovered"
that their founders were the same being. Hey, let's be original
and call him Kitor. Whether the humans' founder and the trolls'
founder were really one and the same in a philosophical sense is
not an empirical question.
Greg Stafford has opined (at Convulsion, was it?) that the
Black Arkati worship Arkat in a divine manner. For game system
purposes, however, I'd treat the spells as sorcery, not divine
magic. But the Arkati think of them as miracles from their god,
not as manipulations of natural laws.
Re: Pamalt/Genert
I for one am now officially tired of this discussion, for
two reasons. One, the level of abstraction makes this thread
boring and useless. Two, what's the point of disagreeing with
Sandy Petersen? For Arachne Solara's sake, he's one of the
creators of Glorantha, and chief architect of Pamaltela. So how
'bout muttering quietly to yourselves instead, or at least taking
the thread offline, guys?
Re: Porthomeka
Thanks for the kind words, MOB, and I heartily concur with
your take on the trader princes. Do I get any points for saying
to myself "Genoa and Venice" before I read your comparison?
The internal tariff is an interesting point, and a key
factor in any understanding of economics (even fantasy
economics). Up until recent years, tariffs have generally been
high around the world. It's too bad Gerald Bosch didn't look at
this issue more in his trade notes. I'd especially like to know
how high the tariffs would be. To pull some numbers out of you-
know-where, I'd say 25 to 100% of the value, perhaps higher.
Whatever the market will bear, really, and the people levying the
tariffs have no idea how to calculate their maximum return.
As for the Porthomekan Malkioni, they might be anti-Arkat,
or they might just see Arkat as a great figure who went
Tragically Wrong. They're probably a mixture of Caladra &
Aurelion cultists and more traditional Orlanthi and/or Ernalda +
protector types.
Re: Praxian Yelmalions
Sandy asked if anybody had any other ideas besides the YO's
being all recent converts. I think that the Praxians have long
had Sun myths, perhaps involving Sun Hawk, and that the Praxians
were open to Solar influence from at least the Dawn Age. During
that period, the Praxians went to Peloria. Some Sable Riders
remained (if indeed the Lunar Deer people are not the remnant of
some earlier migration), but some Praxians probably returned.
They could have brought Pelorian solar beliefs back with them,
though whether such believers were organized enough to be called
a cult is an open question. (By "beliefs," I mean both myth and
ritual, which should be thought of as inseparable.)
The later YO's brought Monrogh's revelations to Prax, where
they could have fallen on fertile ground.
Historical analogue: the spread of Christianity into Asia
and Africa prepared the way for later monotheistic missionary
activity by Muslims and, more to the point, Christians of the
Western churches. There were already Nestorian Christians in
China when Matteo Ricci brought Roman Catholicism there, frex.
Arguably, the earlier Christian missions paved the way for the
later ones, by circulating the central notions of the faith to
the point where they didn't appear quite as bizarre as they would
to someone totally unfamiliar with them.
That's quite enough on that subject.
Later--
--Martin
---------------------
From: scotty@olivia.cedar-rapids.ia.us (Scott Haney)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 28 Sep 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <1f7d591d.9eb1e-scotty@olivia.cedar-rapids.ia.us>
Date: 28 Sep 94 21:22:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6401
& From: niwe@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
& Subject: Secrets within secrets
&
& About the GL secret:
&
& Sandy:
& > Yes. Greg has told me quite explicitly why he won't tell
& > anyone. I thought it was quite a good reason, too.
&
& So, I guess that the reason is secret too?
Oooooh! Maybe the reason it's a secret is THE Secret!
Scotty
---------------------
From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Battle of Moonbroth.
Message-ID: <9409282041.AA08471@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 28 Sep 94 10:41:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6402
Providing I can find and paint enough miniatures in six months, I intend
to run the Battle of Moonbroth as a miniatures event at Pentecon this spring
at Cornell University. (No, I will not be using Warhamster--I'll be using
a modification of the WRG 7th edition miniatures rules.)
However, I do not own Nomad Gods, so I've no idea at all what the order of
battle for Moonbroth was.
Does anyone out there have an order of battle for Moonbroth?
I would also like a run-down of commanders, sub-commanders, etc., since this
is going to be a multi-player event. (I intend to give the Praxian forces
more players than the Lunars to simulate the lower command-structure
cohesiveness that the Praxians would have.)
Thanks.
---------------------
From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: Pamalt
Message-ID: <199409290330.LAA14380@cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 29 Sep 94 19:42:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6403
Dave replying to Joerg replying to Sandy
>Sandy:
>> Pamalt is not a fire god, IMO. Lodril is, and Pamalt is his
>> pal, and Vangono (a fire god) is also Pamalt's pal, but Pamalt is not
>> strongly associated with any element but the Earth -- he is King of
>> all the Gods, but he is also Father, Husband, and Son to the Earth
>> Gods, whose family he married into.
>
>By this rationalizing, Orlanth is the male ruling earth god of most of
>Genertela:
>
First, a little cultural specifics - family means different things to the
Doraddi than to the Orlanthi. To the Orlanthi, 'marrying into the family'
is a weak concept - the children are not necessarily of that tribe, you may
share no property, etc. To the Doraddi it is a strong concept - all that is
yours is theirs, you always change tribes if you marry into it, etc.
Kinship is a more important and more complicated concept in Pamaltela.
>He is son of an earth goddess (Kero Fin), husband of Ernalda, prime earth
>deity of Glorantha, and he is father of if not Voria, then at least
>Barntar.
Son of a minor Earth goddess, and one of the many husbands of Ernalda.
> Ok, Orlanth has a few Storm ties, just like Pamalt has
>a few fire ties...
>
Orlanth has relations that are Earth connected, but he himself has no Earth
powers at all. Pamalt has many Earth powers. Orlanths magic is almost
entirely Storm magic, Pamalt has no fire magic anymore.
>Seriously, while I can accept that Pamalt has strong earth ties, he
>isn't _of_the_Earth_ as is Genert. A God Learner might notice that his
>parentage shows a strong parallel to that of Umath...
>
Birth is not a simple determiner of status in Pamaltela. Pamalt is of the
Earth tribe (even if he wasn't born there). Orlanth is only related to the
Earth by marriage - something much less important.
>> Peter, you missed the point here. When Chaos came to Genert's
>> land, he immediately mustered to battle it. When Chaos came to
>> Pamalt's land, he did not go until the very end, letting other gods
>> strive against Chaos first.
>
>Reason being that Pamalt was about as important then as Choralinthor
>was in Genertela. I suspect that Pamalt's Necklace is the Pamaltelan
>aspect of I Fought We Won.
>
I suspect that the Doraddi interpretation would be that Pamalt did not
fight until he had too, and that this is a good thing. Fighting when you
don't have to causes trouble.
You may be right about Pamalts Necklace being related to I Fought
We Won, though.
>Not exactly true. The main difference is that Pamalt gathered up the
>broken remains of other gods who had fought chaos before, and almost
>sacrificed them to sing them into his necklace.
>
No, the 'broken remains' are a much less important part of the Necklace
than the living (if they are part of it at all). The point is that the
Necklace is not a group of gods, each fighting the enemy on their own
terms. It is a group acting under Pamalts orders, fighting the way Pamalt
says to fight, and is more effective because of this. Pamalt is not a big
tough god, he is an important one. Vangono or Lodril or Artmal could
probably beat Pamalt in a one on one fight - but Pamalt never fights alone,
he leads and makes everybody more effective because he leads.
There are some comparisons, to the idea of Orlanths Ring, for
example, but that is more the idea of everyone being the best at their
individual skill, rather than the idea of the whole being better than the
parts.
>PM>>My belief is that the Emperor of the Green Age was Molandro
>> I cannot concur. Molandro, Keeper of the Earth, was not a
>> ruler, but a guardian entity. I don't think he ever ruled anything.
>
>Well, the Orlanthi say that Yelm was meant to be a guardian only, too,
>but that he usurped a sovereignty not his to take, and that this caused
>the world to be almost destroyed.
>
Even if this is true, the Orlanthi still acknowledge that Yelm was
the Emperor for a long while, and that he was a powerful ruler. Molandro
may have been a tough guy, but he was never acknowledged as a ruler of
gods.
>> This I agree with. Though there may not have been a "one who
>> was before", when the GL arrived Pamalt was obviously the Earth-King,
>> and so the GL assumption was obvious.
>
>That he was *obviously* the earth king still escapes me. Seems rather
>that a GL was desperate to prove his theory of parallelism and took the
>least bad fit.
>
Perhaps he was the Earth King because all the Earth cults
acknowledged him as such, and because he has powerufl and obvious Earth
powers (albeit of a ruling and fighting sort, rather than fertility).
Cheers
Dave
>--
>-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
>
---------------------
From: hasni@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Richard Ohlson)
Subject: Riskland
Message-ID: <1aXDTc1w166w@hogbbs.scol.pa.us>
Date: 28 Sep 94 14:50:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6404
Subject: Riskland
Hi everybody! I've been quietly sitting in the backround reading
the discusions here and finally noticed that nobody is addressing
the issues that I have questions about. So, I'll just post up my
questions and hope that other people have the same questions.
If you've allready been over this ad nauseum, maybe somebody could
just send me a copy of the relevant daily/digest or just e-mail me
with the answer.
I have read that other people are playing/running the Riskland
campaign. I think that it is very good in someways, terrible
in others. First off, I resent the fact that they do not EVER
mention what the common language of Riskland is. (Is it Bilini
like Renekot's dad's tribe, is it Stormspeak since almost
everybody is an Orlanthi, or did they invent a language called
Dorastan?)
How much time do people let go by without any encounters? How
do you roleplay farm life? Or do you just say, "And the rest
of the season goes without event." I don't like doing that,
but farm life sounds boring to me!
Do other people use the Weekly Stead Production thingy? How
do other people convert it to money/stuff? How does buying new
tools help? How does the Bless Crop spell affect it?
Here are some of my ideas: When Bless Crops is cast on a plot of
land, figure out what the average _plant_lore skill is. Then
refigure the Weekly Stead Labor Factor using the average in
place of the worst farmer's skill. Remember that Bless crops
only works on PLANT lore, not animal lore. [An easier way to
do it would be to say that it grants a 60% skill-just for
figuring the WSLF.][Note, Eiritha offers Bless Animal, which
could do the same thing for animal lore]
Each new tool can add a one season bonus of 0-5% to one
person's WSLF.(The better/more useful the tool the better the
bonus.)
A man with a 60% Plant Lore skill (Average Farmer) works 100
hours to contribute 60 points a week, or 2,520 per year. The
yearly income table that I have says that an average person
makes 1,176L per year. So, I think it is safe to say that each
point of the WSLF is equal to half a Lunar. [However, this leads
to another question, how much of this "money" is spent on cost of
living expenses and how much is actually profit?, How much do
they have to tithe? 10% of the profit or 10% of the income? It
hardly makes sense that an Issaries merchant that invested 10,000L
and sold the stuff for 12,000L has to pay his cult 1,200L! God
forbid she only makes 10400L! (And pay 1040!)]
One last thing-the Kalf's Hunting Alynx's. Can anybody tell me
anything about them? I can't find anything about Alynx's or
hunting cats anywere.
Well, I've got lots of questions but I'll ask the rest later. :)
---------------------