From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 04 Oct 1994, part 1 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. X-RQ-ID: index 6446: davidc = (David Cake) - Exigers 6447: lipscomb = lipscomb@vax.ox.ac.uk - Non-CA resurrection 6448: wpgaudin = wpgaudin@awe.gov.uk - Re: Gark, Scenarios & Questions. 6449: CHEN190 = (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty) - Orlanth=Pamalt 6450: CHEN190 = (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty) - The not-so-good Demiverge of Rhigos 6451: CHEN190 = (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty) - The inherent goodness of swamps... 6453: dave_cordes = (Dave Cordes) - Shaman and Sorcery Resurrec 6454: DevinC = DevinC@aol.com - Re: Beasties, Grotto of Pocharngo 6455: 100270.337 = (Nick Brooke) - Pocharngo's Grotto; Whinge About Geases 6456: garydj = garydj@ditard.dit.gov.au - Battle of Moonbroth 6458: alex = (Alex Ferguson) - Kitori 6459: alex = (Alex Ferguson) - Doraddi vs. Oralnthi 6460: alex = (Alex Ferguson) - Black Arkat 6461: alex = (Alex Ferguson) - Arkati and Illumination. 6462: raphael = (Andrew Raphael) - Light Sons in Drag 6463: guy.hoyle = guy.hoyle@chrysalis.org - RUNEQUEST DAI 6464: alex = (Alex Ferguson) - A load of Bull, etc. --------------------- From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake) Subject: Exigers Message-ID: <199410031105.TAA18501@cs.uwa.oz.au> Date: 4 Oct 94 03:17:19 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6446 The Exigers sound a bit like a less extreme version of the Kingdom of War (minus the unifying leader). In TOTRM #11, the Exigers are described as having mastered many unusual fighting arts. I got the impression that the various tribes within the Exigers each had different specialist techniques. Is this correct? If so, what are some examples of the special techniques? To differentiate them from the KOW, I like the idea that they do not have religious differences, but more straight political rivalry, with frequent deadly personal vendettas. --------------------- From: lipscomb@vax.ox.ac.uk Subject: Non-CA resurrection Message-ID: <0098565A.1BD1862D.18@vax.ox.ac.uk> Date: 3 Oct 94 16:15:47 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6447 Gerak Kag (no real name given) asks about resurrection in cultures that do not worship Chalana Arroy. Firstly, CA appears in Orlanth and Yelm pantheons, so any culture worshipping these pantheons will have access to resurrect (Yelm also has the spell, I'm not sure what other gods do). This includes all Theyalans, Pent, Dara Happa and Kralorela. For the remaining cultures, I propose that they don't consider resurrection to be a Good Thing. I'll skim through the other cultures that Ican think of (Genertela only), starting with the Elder Races, seeing as GK singles out non-humans. This is all IMO, of course. Elves consider death to be part of the natural cycle of life - to die and give your nutrients to the soil is just as important as to live. Dwarves, of course, don't die. If they do, then they were obviously broken anyway. Trolls: Its less obvious on the troll view of death. In GoG it says that death is a way to reach the ancestral homeland (the Underworld) and so could be considered a Good Thing. Trollish society also employs expendable members (trollkin, males etc.) for the physically dangerous stuff and so important members are less likely to be lost. For dragonewts of course the question is meaningless. Other lesser races seem to follow human religions (such as ducks) or shamanic paths (baboons). Western: I think the Malkioni would consider resurrection to be heretical as it prevents the soul from reaching Solace, and is against the will of the Invisible God. Prax: The Praxian attitude to the souls of their animals indicates they have a strong reincarnation belief. They may have similar attitudes to the elves - death is as important as life and it is Wrong to interfere. Kralorela: Although they have some elements of Yelmic belief, I feel the Kralorelans are strongly influenced by dragonewt philosophy and so believe in reincarnation, into a higher state if they live a worthy life. Thus it would be wrong to resurrect someone as it would keep them in a lower position. Lunars: The Lunar Empire covers a variety of beliefs. The Dara Happan heartland is Yelmic and so resurrection is available. I presume Deezola has resurrection capabilities, and Chalana Arroy has probably been imported from Theyalan regions too. Shamanic: For cultures involving ancestor worship I feel the concept of resurrection doesn't make sense, as the dead are still around and can be consulted whenever necessary. The attitude I have taken here is that resurrection is mainly used to bring back someone who has met an untimely end and who is a valued member of society. (Of course, pious Chalana Arroyans would say that _everyone_ is a valued member of society). Where death is viewed as a final and ultimate end, where the personality does not survive, resurrection would be more readily sought (witness the Brithini attitude to death - one of fear and loathing). In societies where the dead will be back, maybe in another form, but they will be back, resurrection will be seen to interfere with this and thus be wrong. The prime users of resurrection must be the Theyalans, and I see their attitude as a kind of "I'm not going to let a little thing like death stop me from giving the Lunars a good kicking", or of course "Your friend is only _mostly_ dead". Simon Lipscomb --------------------- From: wpgaudin@awe.gov.uk Subject: Re: Gark, Scenarios & Questions. Message-ID: <9410031636.AA10978@_awe.gov.uk> Date: 3 Oct 94 16:36:26 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6448 Whoever asked about Gark I still have the desciption on disc from when it appeared in the digest some years ago. It also has an attached scenario. Being a newcomer to the group you had better tell me whether I should mail it as it is quite large. I would also like to post various scenarios I have written. I was writing them up hoping to submit them to Avalon but after hearing how difficult and infuriating it is to get anything published I thought "What the hell" I may as well just distribute them for free. However I am assuming this a forum for such submissions. Again, they are quite large files so maybe it would be better to mail them to individuals direct. You tell me. There is also the matter of maps. I could uuencode the graphics to reduce the size or simply use an ASCII format. What formats can most people read, Gif,Tiff,Postscipt etc. Wayne Gaudin --------------------- From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty) Subject: Orlanth=Pamalt Message-ID: <01HHUSG1EGNM9OD9B5@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> Date: 4 Oct 94 10:54:50 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6449 Joerg ===== [Arguing about Orlanth] SP> You think that the Earth SP> Goddess priestesses don't think of him as a relative? You think they SP> don't have special calls on his prowess not available to anyone else? JB>I think they do. I'm just not certain how these look like. To expand on JB>Davd Dunham's Land Goddess summary, the Orlanth Rex cult seems to have JB>filled part of these functions in a form acceptable to the male JB>dominated Orlanthi. This puzzles me. I have seen the Orlanth Rex subcult in the Orlanth writeup in Heroes and for some reason it was dropped from River of Cradles. For the record to enter the subcult you have to be a thane or a king and the spells it teaches are Command Priest, Detect Honour and Command Worshippers. To me Orlanth Rex seems to the mythical basis for the Tribe in the Orlanthi PoV and not a missing link for As O. Rex was invented by Alakoring Dragonslayer, this raises the question of how the Orlanthi organized themselves into SupraClan organizations before. My guess is that they were controlled by the Temples who dealt in interclan matters. My parallel for this is Druidism rather than the Ziggurat States of Sumer. >However, this opens another question I've been harbouring for some >time: How is the native Pamaltelan divine magic different from the >Genertelan? Cults of Terror calls the native Pamaltelan philosophy >Naturalist, similar to the Hsunchen. Joerg knows of my view in that they did pratice a distinct form of Rune Magic before the advent of the six legged empire. The strength of this magic (I wouldn't detail the mechanics here cause IMO it's v. rare) was that the spells could only be cast communally in mass dances (ie like war dances before battles), as opposed to calling upon the god at a snap of the fingers (ie conventional divine magic). When the six legged empire defeated these tribes with their theism, the doraddi were forced into the Hinterlands. Eventually the tribes switched from their communal dance (divine) magic to conventional theism, for the simple fact that it is more effective with small groups. The real sting in the tale is this. The doraddi social structure is based around the community, but this is based on a communal magic which was rendered obslete by the advent of the six legged Empire: ie, the magical power of the chief required in the old days cooperation of his subjects, which does not occur in conventional divine magic. IMO there is a potential for a tryant to arise as did RW Shaka and enforce his will on the tribe. Think of the Orlanthi flaw of Lokaymadonism and apply it to the Arbennan confederation... --Peter Metcalfe --------------------- From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty) Subject: The not-so-good Demiverge of Rhigos Message-ID: <01HHUSEQHH8A9OD9B5@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> Date: 4 Oct 94 10:54:08 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6450 MOB --- I wrote something five days ago about porthomeka, but the post got eaten by a krashtkid. It was about Rhigos and one of MOB's contributions (which for modesty? MOB didn't mention in the current thread) was the factoids about the Wild parties (and worse) of the Demiverge of Rhigos. I am quite prepared to synthesize this with Crim's suggestion that the Porthomekans are Westerners by saying that the Demiverge really only rules an enclave within Rhigos. The majority of the Porthomekans are quite industrious farmers and very puritan in personal morals. The palace of the Demiverge then exists as a type of Sun City for South Africa and is mainly filled with taverns, brothels, packrat fighting dens and other places for lowlifes. The churchman daily preach against the wickedness of the Demiverge. But the farmers have to pay a tax on their goods to the Demiverge in return for rights to live here. This isn't to say they haven't burrowed Caladralander customs because they're rednecks. I can easily imagine the focus of their worship being at an eternal flame to better commune with the creative aspect of the Invisible God. -Peter Metcalfe --------------------- From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty) Subject: The inherent goodness of swamps... Message-ID: <01HHUSBYAV9E9OD9B5@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> Date: 4 Oct 94 10:53:04 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6451 Apologies for the lateness of this. The Fanatics of the Wordless Prophet have been getting hold of my posts to the mailing list for the past few days. Sandy ----- >>And the Goblin marshes would also be considered bad by the Doraddi. > Why? They're fertile. There's plenty of good hunting in them, >and some useful plants, both edible and medicinal. They aren't >threatening to expand over the savannah, they don't send waves of >invaders into the Doraddi countryside. The Jrusteli monomyth in GoG says the goblins did exactly this during the gods age (send Genodical armies on a campaign to destroy all humankind) and so I assumed they did so on a rare basis (perhaps three times at the most in a century). I based Doraddi views on the swamp on this factoid. As for good hunting, what about Malaria (or gloranthan fever to be benign), mosquitoes and goblins? (the scythanni are xenophilic? no?) >I don't think the Doraddi >think that Sozganjio is bad at all. And the smaller marshes in >occasional spots inland are doubtless viewed as wholly desirable. If >there's one great threat in the Doraddi savannah it's got to be >drought, which a marsh tends to mitigate, if you live near it. The marshes are not exactly the healthiest places to live in the RW, (note how we like to drain our swamps?) and in the absense of mosquito nets (or 6legged empire protective circles!), the Doraddi would IMO stay away from the marsh unless there was a drought on. >>But you can say wastelands in both are chaos cursed cf the Nargan >>and the wastelands. > This is because Chaos makes wastelands, not because >wastelands harbor chaos. Echoing a complaint by Nick Brooke 'why is chaos always responsible for everything?' >Both the Nargan desert and the Chaos Wastes >(named for what _caused_ it, not for what lives in it, by the way) >were once fertile delightsome countries. Chaos wrecked 'em and did >what Chaos tends to do when it gets ahold of fertile delights. You >are confusing cause and effect. Not really. The Nargan, ToTRM#11 tells me, was created by Pamalt calling upon the sky to rain upon the Chaos armies that were in the area. The Wastelands were created by Generts death which was caused by Chaos. Mind you. Vovisibor seems unchaos when he is challenging everyone in the meeting contest. I wonder if the God Learners said 'aha he must be chaos' and the broos of the black pus appeared in the Nargan? >>I would say the reason for this difference [between the horrible >>wars of Genertela and Pamaltela] is that Inland Pamaltela >does not >>really have the magic to implement a night of horrors. > Huh? Genertela wouldn't, either, if it hadn't had centuries >of nonstop wars to polish its technique. I thought I qualified this statement with the reason why this was so was that Pamaltela didn't have so many wars as compared to Genertela. If in any case, I agree with your assessment here. Malso. >I haven't even >decided whether they are more like Zimbabwe or the Mayans so far as >their architecture. Maybe the Elamle are Zimbabwe-types, and the >Onlaks folks are Mayan/Aztec/Toltec/whatever. I would choose Zimbabwean architecture as Mesoamerican is already purloined in Dragonewt temples and the Kingdom of ignorance. Mind you it is hard to find a good book on Golden Zimbabwe as most of them are concerned with proving that 'ignorant blacks' could not possibly have constructed them. Does anybody have good references? >>>In Pamaltela, Lodril is the _bringer_ of life, >He is the god >credited with creating the first forms of life, including the First >Humans. (Assisted by a trickster entity recognized as Eurmal by the >God Learners.) The myth also says that Lodril was looking for something to populate his land. What was wrong with the autocthonous lifeforms? (probably draconic related IMO). that is why I postulated that he fought the 'One who was Before' and ended up covering the land in good old lava and requiring him to repopulate the land. In any case about Molandro and rulership, I have taken objections on board and think that he was the Warleader of the Earth Tribe against He Who Moves and the Giants. When these were defeated, he was only one among many until the next fight came up. --Peter Metcalfe --------------------- From: dave_cordes@cl_63smtp_gw.chinalake.navy.mil (Dave Cordes) Subject: Shaman and Sorcery Resurrec Message-ID: <9410031843.AA11944@Sun.COM> Date: 3 Oct 94 03:25:18 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6453 CL QM-SMTP gw Shaman and Sorcery Resurrections Colin Watson X-RQ-ID: 6423: >Now, I wouldn't go as far as the Magic Book in saying that it's >*impossible* for Shamans and Sorcerers to raise the dead; but I would say >it's Very Hard. gerakkag X-RQ-ID: 6426: >I agree that shamans should be able to bring back the dead (but only >after a struggle). Nick Brooke X-RQ-ID: 6432: >Shamans, like Wizards, can certainly resurrect through hefty ceremonies. Now that at least four of us agree that resurrections should not necessarily be limited to just the Chalanna Arroy Divine Spell. What sort of games mechanism would someone suggest for a Shaman or Sorcerer to perform a resurrection? I posted my suggestions a few days ago. As Colin pointed out, and my further reading verified, my suggestions do seem to lead to a zombie not a resurrected PC. If anyone has some suggested game mechanism (required spells or actions) I would like to hear (read) it. But please keep in mind that a wide variety of GMs may be implementing or ignoring your suggestions. To wit - For those of you siding with Nick : >"Very Hard" sounds about right to me; but there's plenty of us who'd like >the Rune Magic Resurrect spells to be made that difficult as well. Why does the game system have to make resurrections "very hard"? The system should allow for all types and attitudes of GMs and players. The ability to resurrect should be available easily, IF THE GM WANTS IT TO BE. If the GM wants his world to be a hard place to live, and an even harder place to come back to life in, then he has the power to make it so. If you think that resurrections are too easy or plentiful in your world, then you should find a harder GM. But please don't punish those GMs who want to play a easy world by rigidly restricting the game system. I have played in worlds with very giving and lenient GMs, where the story, development of the PCs, and fun were the foremost priorities. I have also played in worlds with very hard GMs, where daily survivial is all you have time to worry about. In their own ways, each game was unique, challenging and fun. But if you make the game mechanisms to restrictive, or too hard, to suit a few hardcores then you will risk driving away a whole other faction of players. And from what I've seen here on the dailys, this game can't afford to lose any dedicated players. Even if they don't agree with our way of doing things. So lets try to develop game mechanisms that will work within the guidlines of the Gloranthain World. And leave it up to the individual GMs as to how easy, or hard, the mechanism is to learn and perform. So lets see those suggested mechanisms, those flaming arrows, those burning barbs. I'll wear my fireproof underwear tomorrow. DC --------------------- From: DevinC@aol.com Subject: Re: Beasties, Grotto of Pocharngo Message-ID: <9410031500.tn223882@aol.com> Date: 3 Oct 94 19:00:12 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6454 Devin here: Thanks to Nick Eden for his advice on Sartarite beasties, although I still have to imagine that occasionally some Praxian herd bests escape from the tribes or wander away or are born wild and have, over the years, wandered into Sartar and started to reproduce. Does anyone else think this possible? WARNING....INFO ABOUT RIVER OF CRADLES SCENARIO FOLLOWS: Klaus asks: "My RQ group will soon be visiting the grotto of Pocharngo (if they manage to find it.) As far as I can see from the scenario describtion, once they are in, they are dead. One "exit" can only be opened from the outside, the other requires an undine. These are begining characters, they don't have any undines. They could get one from the ZF cult, but if they don't think of that, they are dead, right?" Hmm, it was a long time ago when I ran that, and I don't have the book here, but my players looked very carefully around Ogre Island and noticed the telltale signs of the secret trapdoor there. They then entered and did that battle thing (BTW, one was possessed by the Dragonsnail spirit and spent the adventure bottom feeding...he he!) with all of the nasty evil bad things. They were beginning characters are middle level characters and survived fairly well. Obviously, the stigmata and the Breathe Water ability are required. Regards, Devin devinc@aol.com --------------------- From: garydj@ditard.dit.gov.au Subject: Battle of Moonbroth Message-ID: <9409047812.AA781295278@ditard.dit.gov.au> Date: 4 Oct 94 10:27:58 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6456 Bryan Maloney asked about Nomad Gods to help develop an order of battle for the Battle of Moonbroth. I don't have Nomad Gods, but Borderlands has a few details on the battle. From memory, the Bison and Impala tribes had help from the Rhino Riders, the Pavis Survivors, Broos, Agimori and Newtlings. There were also some shamans with a variety of medicine bundles and control of Oakfed. I think the Lunars had Grazerlander and Dragonewt mercenaries on side as well as the Sable tribe. The battle was a total disaster for the Praxians. The Grazelanders and Sables drove off the skirmishing Impalas and Pavis Survivors. The charge of the Bison and Rhinos broke down when the Lunars threw caltrops in their path. Oakfed couldn't withstand the Lunar magics and his shamans died again and again. The remaining Praxians, including the Broos, Newtlings and Agimori, succumbed to the Lunar hoplites once their mounted allies fled. Hope this helps you. Gary James