From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 04 Oct 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6446: davidc = (David Cake)
- Exigers
6447: lipscomb = lipscomb@vax.ox.ac.uk
- Non-CA resurrection
6448: wpgaudin = wpgaudin@awe.gov.uk
- Re: Gark, Scenarios & Questions.
6449: CHEN190 = (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
- Orlanth=Pamalt
6450: CHEN190 = (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
- The not-so-good Demiverge of Rhigos
6451: CHEN190 = (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
- The inherent goodness of swamps...
6453: dave_cordes = (Dave Cordes)
- Shaman and Sorcery Resurrec
6454: DevinC = DevinC@aol.com
- Re: Beasties, Grotto of Pocharngo
6455: 100270.337 = (Nick Brooke)
- Pocharngo's Grotto; Whinge About Geases
6456: garydj = garydj@ditard.dit.gov.au
- Battle of Moonbroth
6458: alex = (Alex Ferguson)
- Kitori
6459: alex = (Alex Ferguson)
- Doraddi vs. Oralnthi
6460: alex = (Alex Ferguson)
- Black Arkat
6461: alex = (Alex Ferguson)
- Arkati and Illumination.
6462: raphael = (Andrew Raphael)
- Light Sons in Drag
6463: guy.hoyle = guy.hoyle@chrysalis.org
- RUNEQUEST DAI
6464: alex = (Alex Ferguson)
- A load of Bull, etc.
---------------------
From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: Exigers
Message-ID: <199410031105.TAA18501@cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 4 Oct 94 03:17:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6446
The Exigers sound a bit like a less extreme version of the Kingdom
of War (minus the unifying leader).
In TOTRM #11, the Exigers are described as having mastered many
unusual fighting arts. I got the impression that the various tribes within
the Exigers each had different specialist techniques. Is this correct? If
so, what are some examples of the special techniques?
To differentiate them from the KOW, I like the idea that they do
not have religious differences, but more straight political rivalry, with
frequent deadly personal vendettas.
---------------------
From: lipscomb@vax.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Non-CA resurrection
Message-ID: <0098565A.1BD1862D.18@vax.ox.ac.uk>
Date: 3 Oct 94 16:15:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6447
Gerak Kag (no real name given) asks about resurrection in cultures that do not
worship Chalana Arroy.
Firstly, CA appears in Orlanth and Yelm pantheons, so any culture worshipping
these pantheons will have access to resurrect (Yelm also has the spell, I'm not
sure what other gods do). This includes all Theyalans, Pent, Dara Happa and
Kralorela. For the remaining cultures, I propose that they don't consider
resurrection to be a Good Thing. I'll skim through the other cultures that Ican
think of (Genertela only), starting with the Elder Races, seeing as GK singles
out non-humans. This is all IMO, of course.
Elves consider death to be part of the natural cycle of life - to die and give
your nutrients to the soil is just as important as to live.
Dwarves, of course, don't die. If they do, then they were obviously broken
anyway.
Trolls: Its less obvious on the troll view of death. In GoG it says that death
is a way to reach the ancestral homeland (the Underworld) and so could be
considered a Good Thing. Trollish society also employs expendable members
(trollkin, males etc.) for the physically dangerous stuff and so important
members are less likely to be lost.
For dragonewts of course the question is meaningless. Other lesser races seem
to follow human religions (such as ducks) or shamanic paths (baboons).
Western: I think the Malkioni would consider resurrection to be heretical as it
prevents the soul from reaching Solace, and is against the will of the
Invisible God.
Prax: The Praxian attitude to the souls of their animals indicates they have a
strong reincarnation belief. They may have similar attitudes to the elves -
death is as important as life and it is Wrong to interfere.
Kralorela: Although they have some elements of Yelmic belief, I feel the
Kralorelans are strongly influenced by dragonewt philosophy and so believe in
reincarnation, into a higher state if they live a worthy life. Thus it would be
wrong to resurrect someone as it would keep them in a lower position.
Lunars: The Lunar Empire covers a variety of beliefs. The Dara Happan heartland
is Yelmic and so resurrection is available. I presume Deezola has resurrection
capabilities, and Chalana Arroy has probably been imported from Theyalan
regions too.
Shamanic: For cultures involving ancestor worship I feel the concept of
resurrection doesn't make sense, as the dead are still around and can be
consulted whenever necessary.
The attitude I have taken here is that resurrection is mainly used to bring
back someone who has met an untimely end and who is a valued member of society.
(Of course, pious Chalana Arroyans would say that _everyone_ is a valued member
of society). Where death is viewed as a final and ultimate end, where the
personality does not survive, resurrection would be more readily sought
(witness the Brithini attitude to death - one of fear and loathing). In
societies where the dead will be back, maybe in another form, but they will be
back, resurrection will be seen to interfere with this and thus be wrong.
The prime users of resurrection must be the Theyalans, and I see their attitude
as a kind of "I'm not going to let a little thing like death stop me from
giving the Lunars a good kicking", or of course "Your friend is only _mostly_
dead".
Simon Lipscomb
---------------------
From: wpgaudin@awe.gov.uk
Subject: Re: Gark, Scenarios & Questions.
Message-ID: <9410031636.AA10978@_awe.gov.uk>
Date: 3 Oct 94 16:36:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6448
Whoever asked about Gark I still have the desciption on disc from when it
appeared in the digest some years ago. It also has an attached scenario.
Being a newcomer to the group you had better tell me whether I should mail
it as it is quite large.
I would also like to post various scenarios I have written. I was writing them
up hoping to submit them to Avalon but after hearing how difficult and
infuriating it is to get anything published I thought "What the hell" I may as
well just distribute them for free. However I am assuming this a forum for
such submissions. Again, they are quite large files so maybe it would be
better to mail them to individuals direct. You tell me. There is also the
matter of maps. I could uuencode the graphics to reduce the size or simply
use an ASCII format. What formats can most people read, Gif,Tiff,Postscipt etc.
Wayne Gaudin
---------------------
From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Orlanth=Pamalt
Message-ID: <01HHUSG1EGNM9OD9B5@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 4 Oct 94 10:54:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6449
Joerg
=====
[Arguing about Orlanth]
SP> You think that the Earth
SP> Goddess priestesses don't think of him as a relative? You think they
SP> don't have special calls on his prowess not available to anyone else?
JB>I think they do. I'm just not certain how these look like. To expand on
JB>Davd Dunham's Land Goddess summary, the Orlanth Rex cult seems to have
JB>filled part of these functions in a form acceptable to the male
JB>dominated Orlanthi.
This puzzles me. I have seen the Orlanth Rex subcult in the Orlanth
writeup in Heroes and for some reason it was dropped from River of
Cradles. For the record to enter the subcult you have to be a thane
or a king and the spells it teaches are Command Priest, Detect Honour
and Command Worshippers. To me Orlanth Rex seems to the mythical basis
for the Tribe in the Orlanthi PoV and not a missing link for
As O. Rex was invented by Alakoring Dragonslayer, this raises the
question of how the Orlanthi organized themselves into SupraClan
organizations before. My guess is that they were controlled by the
Temples who dealt in interclan matters. My parallel for this is
Druidism rather than the Ziggurat States of Sumer.
>However, this opens another question I've been harbouring for some
>time: How is the native Pamaltelan divine magic different from the
>Genertelan? Cults of Terror calls the native Pamaltelan philosophy
>Naturalist, similar to the Hsunchen.
Joerg knows of my view in that they did pratice a distinct form of
Rune Magic before the advent of the six legged empire. The strength
of this magic (I wouldn't detail the mechanics here cause IMO it's
v. rare) was that the spells could only be cast communally in mass
dances (ie like war dances before battles), as opposed to calling
upon the god at a snap of the fingers (ie conventional divine magic).
When the six legged empire defeated these tribes with their theism,
the doraddi were forced into the Hinterlands. Eventually the tribes
switched from their communal dance (divine) magic to conventional
theism, for the simple fact that it is more effective with small groups.
The real sting in the tale is this. The doraddi social structure
is based around the community, but this is based on a communal magic
which was rendered obslete by the advent of the six legged Empire: ie,
the magical power of the chief required in the old days cooperation
of his subjects, which does not occur in conventional divine magic.
IMO there is a potential for a tryant to arise as did RW Shaka and
enforce his will on the tribe. Think of the Orlanthi flaw of
Lokaymadonism and apply it to the Arbennan confederation...
--Peter Metcalfe
---------------------
From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: The not-so-good Demiverge of Rhigos
Message-ID: <01HHUSEQHH8A9OD9B5@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 4 Oct 94 10:54:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6450
MOB
---
I wrote something five days ago about porthomeka, but the post got eaten
by a krashtkid. It was about Rhigos and one of MOB's contributions (which
for modesty? MOB didn't mention in the current thread) was the factoids
about the Wild parties (and worse) of the Demiverge of Rhigos.
I am quite prepared to synthesize this with Crim's suggestion that the
Porthomekans are Westerners by saying that the Demiverge really only
rules an enclave within Rhigos. The majority of the Porthomekans are
quite industrious farmers and very puritan in personal morals. The
palace of the Demiverge then exists as a type of Sun City for South
Africa and is mainly filled with taverns, brothels, packrat fighting
dens and other places for lowlifes. The churchman daily preach against
the wickedness of the Demiverge. But the farmers have to pay a tax on
their goods to the Demiverge in return for rights to live here.
This isn't to say they haven't burrowed Caladralander customs because
they're rednecks. I can easily imagine the focus of their worship being
at an eternal flame to better commune with the creative aspect of the
Invisible God.
-Peter Metcalfe
---------------------
From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: The inherent goodness of swamps...
Message-ID: <01HHUSBYAV9E9OD9B5@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 4 Oct 94 10:53:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6451
Apologies for the lateness of this. The Fanatics of the
Wordless Prophet have been getting hold of my posts to
the mailing list for the past few days.
Sandy
-----
>>And the Goblin marshes would also be considered bad by the Doraddi.
> Why? They're fertile. There's plenty of good hunting in them,
>and some useful plants, both edible and medicinal. They aren't
>threatening to expand over the savannah, they don't send waves of
>invaders into the Doraddi countryside.
The Jrusteli monomyth in GoG says the goblins did exactly this
during the gods age (send Genodical armies on a campaign to destroy
all humankind) and so I assumed they did so on a rare basis (perhaps
three times at the most in a century). I based Doraddi views on the
swamp on this factoid.
As for good hunting, what about Malaria (or gloranthan fever to be
benign), mosquitoes and goblins? (the scythanni are xenophilic? no?)
>I don't think the Doraddi
>think that Sozganjio is bad at all. And the smaller marshes in
>occasional spots inland are doubtless viewed as wholly desirable. If
>there's one great threat in the Doraddi savannah it's got to be
>drought, which a marsh tends to mitigate, if you live near it.
The marshes are not exactly the healthiest places to live in the RW,
(note how we like to drain our swamps?) and in the absense of
mosquito nets (or 6legged empire protective circles!), the Doraddi
would IMO stay away from the marsh unless there was a drought on.
>>But you can say wastelands in both are chaos cursed cf the Nargan
>>and the wastelands.
> This is because Chaos makes wastelands, not because
>wastelands harbor chaos.
Echoing a complaint by Nick Brooke 'why is chaos always responsible for
everything?'
>Both the Nargan desert and the Chaos Wastes
>(named for what _caused_ it, not for what lives in it, by the way)
>were once fertile delightsome countries. Chaos wrecked 'em and did
>what Chaos tends to do when it gets ahold of fertile delights. You
>are confusing cause and effect.
Not really. The Nargan, ToTRM#11 tells me, was created by Pamalt
calling upon the sky to rain upon the Chaos armies that were in the
area. The Wastelands were created by Generts death which was caused
by Chaos.
Mind you. Vovisibor seems unchaos when he is challenging everyone
in the meeting contest. I wonder if the God Learners said 'aha he
must be chaos' and the broos of the black pus appeared in the Nargan?
>>I would say the reason for this difference [between the horrible
>>wars of Genertela and Pamaltela] is that Inland Pamaltela >does not
>>really have the magic to implement a night of horrors.
> Huh? Genertela wouldn't, either, if it hadn't had centuries
>of nonstop wars to polish its technique.
I thought I qualified this statement with the reason why this was
so was that Pamaltela didn't have so many wars as compared to
Genertela. If in any case, I agree with your assessment here.
Malso.
>I haven't even
>decided whether they are more like Zimbabwe or the Mayans so far as
>their architecture. Maybe the Elamle are Zimbabwe-types, and the
>Onlaks folks are Mayan/Aztec/Toltec/whatever.
I would choose Zimbabwean architecture as Mesoamerican is already
purloined in Dragonewt temples and the Kingdom of ignorance. Mind
you it is hard to find a good book on Golden Zimbabwe as most of them
are concerned with proving that 'ignorant blacks' could not possibly
have constructed them. Does anybody have good references?
>>>In Pamaltela, Lodril is the _bringer_ of life,
>He is the god
>credited with creating the first forms of life, including the First
>Humans. (Assisted by a trickster entity recognized as Eurmal by the
>God Learners.)
The myth also says that Lodril was looking for something to populate
his land. What was wrong with the autocthonous lifeforms? (probably
draconic related IMO). that is why I postulated that he fought the
'One who was Before' and ended up covering the land in good old lava
and requiring him to repopulate the land.
In any case about Molandro and rulership, I have taken objections on
board and think that he was the Warleader of the Earth Tribe against He
Who Moves and the Giants. When these were defeated, he was only one
among many until the next fight came up.
--Peter Metcalfe
---------------------
From: dave_cordes@cl_63smtp_gw.chinalake.navy.mil (Dave Cordes)
Subject: Shaman and Sorcery Resurrec
Message-ID: <9410031843.AA11944@Sun.COM>
Date: 3 Oct 94 03:25:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6453
CL QM-SMTP gw Shaman and Sorcery Resurrections
Colin Watson X-RQ-ID: 6423:
>Now, I wouldn't go as far as the Magic Book in saying that it's
>*impossible* for Shamans and Sorcerers to raise the dead; but I would say
>it's Very Hard.
gerakkag X-RQ-ID: 6426:
>I agree that shamans should be able to bring back the dead (but only
>after a struggle).
Nick Brooke X-RQ-ID: 6432:
>Shamans, like Wizards, can certainly resurrect through hefty ceremonies.
Now that at least four of us agree that resurrections should not necessarily
be limited to just the Chalanna Arroy Divine Spell. What sort of games
mechanism would someone suggest for a Shaman or Sorcerer to perform a
resurrection? I posted my suggestions a few days ago. As Colin pointed out,
and my further reading verified, my suggestions do seem to lead to a zombie
not a resurrected PC.
If anyone has some suggested game mechanism (required spells or actions) I
would like to hear (read) it. But please keep in mind that a wide variety of
GMs may be implementing or ignoring your suggestions.
To wit - For those of you siding with Nick :
>"Very Hard" sounds about right to me; but there's plenty of us who'd like
>the Rune Magic Resurrect spells to be made that difficult as well.
Why does the game system have to make resurrections "very hard"? The system
should allow for all types and attitudes of GMs and players. The ability to
resurrect should be available easily, IF THE GM WANTS IT TO BE. If the GM
wants his world to be a hard place to live, and an even harder place to come
back to life in, then he has the power to make it so. If you think that
resurrections are too easy or plentiful in your world, then you should find a
harder GM.
But please don't punish those GMs who want to play a easy world by rigidly
restricting the game system. I have played in worlds with very giving and
lenient GMs, where the story, development of the PCs, and fun were the
foremost priorities. I have also played in worlds with very hard GMs, where
daily survivial is all you have time to worry about. In their own ways, each
game was unique, challenging and fun.
But if you make the game mechanisms to restrictive, or too hard, to suit a
few hardcores then you will risk driving away a whole other faction of
players. And from what I've seen here on the dailys, this game can't afford
to lose any dedicated players. Even if they don't agree with our way of
doing things.
So lets try to develop game mechanisms that will work within the guidlines of
the Gloranthain World. And leave it up to the individual GMs as to how easy,
or hard, the mechanism is to learn and perform.
So lets see those suggested mechanisms, those flaming arrows, those burning
barbs. I'll wear my fireproof underwear tomorrow.
DC
---------------------
From: DevinC@aol.com
Subject: Re: Beasties, Grotto of Pocharngo
Message-ID: <9410031500.tn223882@aol.com>
Date: 3 Oct 94 19:00:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6454
Devin here:
Thanks to Nick Eden for his advice on Sartarite beasties, although I still
have to imagine that occasionally some Praxian herd bests escape from the
tribes or wander away or are born wild and have, over the years, wandered
into Sartar and started to reproduce. Does anyone else think this possible?
WARNING....INFO ABOUT RIVER OF CRADLES SCENARIO FOLLOWS:
Klaus asks:
"My RQ group will soon be visiting the grotto of Pocharngo
(if they manage to find it.) As far as I can see from
the scenario describtion, once they are in, they are dead.
One "exit" can only be opened from the outside, the other
requires an undine. These are begining characters, they
don't have any undines. They could get one from the ZF
cult, but if they don't think of that, they are dead, right?"
Hmm, it was a long time ago when I ran that, and I don't have the book here,
but my players looked very carefully around Ogre Island and noticed the
telltale signs of the secret trapdoor there. They then entered and did that
battle thing (BTW, one was possessed by the Dragonsnail spirit and spent the
adventure bottom feeding...he he!) with all of the nasty evil bad things.
They were beginning characters are middle level characters and survived
fairly well. Obviously, the stigmata and the Breathe Water ability are
required.
Regards,
Devin
devinc@aol.com
---------------------
From: garydj@ditard.dit.gov.au
Subject: Battle of Moonbroth
Message-ID: <9409047812.AA781295278@ditard.dit.gov.au>
Date: 4 Oct 94 10:27:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6456
Bryan Maloney asked about Nomad Gods to help develop an order of
battle for the Battle of Moonbroth.
I don't have Nomad Gods, but Borderlands has a few details on the
battle. From memory, the Bison and Impala tribes had help from
the Rhino Riders, the Pavis Survivors, Broos, Agimori and Newtlings.
There were also some shamans with a variety of medicine bundles and
control of Oakfed. I think the Lunars had Grazerlander and Dragonewt
mercenaries on side as well as the Sable tribe.
The battle was a total disaster for the Praxians. The Grazelanders
and Sables drove off the skirmishing Impalas and Pavis Survivors. The
charge of the Bison and Rhinos broke down when the Lunars threw
caltrops in their path. Oakfed couldn't withstand the Lunar magics
and his shamans died again and again. The remaining Praxians,
including the Broos, Newtlings and Agimori, succumbed to the Lunar
hoplites once their mounted allies fled.
Hope this helps you.
Gary James