Bell Digest v941005p2

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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 05 Oct 1994, part 2
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From: 100270.337@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Wizards v. Sorcerers
Message-ID: <941004192937_100270.337_BHL49-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 4 Oct 94 19:29:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6474

____
Alex cites Sandy as claiming:

> ... most sensible Wizards know that Evil Sorcerors can cast exactly the
> same spells as they do.

Yeah, if we're taking "spells" from RQ3's limited list. But certainly not
if we're talking about the harmonious societal kingdom-enhancing "divine" 
Wizardry that is the Malkioni speciality. Evil Sorcerers could, of course, 
embrace Malkion's Law, and through God's Grace come to possess the same 
powers of blessing and so on that sensible Wizards have. But surely there 
must be a ethical/moral/religious dimension to what GoG presents simply as 
"the Worship Invisible God sorcery spell"?

___________
Dave Cordes pleads:

> Please don't punish those GMs who want to play a easy world by rigidly
> restricting the game system.

I'd never dream of doing that: "Less is more" where role-playing rulesets 
are concerned, IMHO. But what GM is foolish enough to follow all (or any) 
of the rules against his or her own inclinations?

> Let's try to develop game mechanisms that will work within the guide-
> lines of the Gloranthan World.

I thought Greg's views on the rarity of healing magic in Glorantha (i.e. 
"There's about 1/10th as much Healing in the world as you'd assume from 
playing RuneQuest") were well known by now. That is to say, RuneQuest no 
longer accurately models Greg's vision of Glorantha. If it ever did. That 
said, RQ-Glorantha is still a real fun place to play, and I don't imagine 
many of us will be leaving it through a minor quibble about the magic 
system. (Or why do we still play RQ3, with crap Sorcery rules and all?)

Which means, as we can have no fixed model for what is Gloranthan and what 
ain't, that each of us can espouse the gaming-style that suits us best. But
that doesn't mean we shouldn't express opinions about how the game-of-the- 
world "ought to work". I think Resurrection should be difficult, dangerous 
and scary. I can't turn that concept into a mechanic, because then it would 
become abuseable. I just bear it in mind whenever the idea comes up, and  
try to spread it through nuance and innuendo. Otherwise, if I pin it down  
to die rolls and POW costs and risks, some clever-clogs rules-lawyer will 
work out that the best and safest Resurrections are those cast by Chalana 
Arroy Dryads (or whatever) and try to warp the world that way. Like pissant 
powergamers wanting to play stinking Chaos cultists, or Illuminated Humakti 
Vampires, or shit like that.

I say that we should Make Death Hurt, or where's the glory in adventuring? 
There's a good Orlanthi Stave about this, but I can't be bothered to dig it 
out right now (being drunk while I enjoy my last night as a 25-yr-old). You 
know the one I mean, anyway.

====
Nick
====

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From: 100102.3001@compuserve.com (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: Son of Geas
Message-ID: <941004223700_100102.3001_BHJ55-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 4 Oct 94 22:37:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6475

Hi all,

Nick aired some grievances about the 'geas' mechanism as it stands.  I have to
confess that I had not given this subject much thought before now.  On
reflection, however, I tend to agree with much of Nick's post.  The most
persuasive arguement being:

>I just can't help thinking of RQ OT characters in the Cult of Yahweh being 
>allowed to pick and choose (or rolling 1D10 to discover?) which of the Ten 
>Commandments they'll have to follow...

I expect that a good Yelmalion, or Humakti, is going to try damn hard to abide
by all the 'geasa' listed.  I rather suspect that these represent just the tip
of the iceberg though, particularly in the Yelmalion cult.  It would not
surprise me to learn that there are all manner of restrictions, customs,
traditions and etiquette that ought to be adhered to.  Many of course having
been drawn from myth and legend.  Along the lines of, 

'It is said that, during the Solitude of Testing,  X did Y.  Therefore, all good
Yelmalions also do Y.'

'Since Z does Y, he is a good Yelmalion.  QED.'

I find the idea of certain units, temples, communities, whatever
adopting/emphasizing certain 'geasa' over others quite appealing.

>Or making the whole thing more social/open, so that *most* Humakti try to 
>live by *all* the cult's Geases, even though only some of them would suffer 
>terrible punishments for breaking them.

Certainly, the treatment that creates the least fuss in terms of tweaking the
system is to encourage players to adhere to all the restrictions but only to
enforce those received as geasa.  Perhaps good roleplaying in respect of this
should then be rewarded by increased likelihood of POW gain rolls (25-Current
POW?) or an increased Luck roll (POWx6?) or faster Rune magic recovery or
increased DI (1d50?).  I cannot envision a 'formula' for such rewards since they
would be derived from he GM's appraisal of the players' good roleplaying.

If one is using PDP, however, the concept might well be abstracted in terms of
the Traits & Pasions mechanism.

David Dunham's suggestions for Yelmalio's virtuous traits are:
Chaste, Energetic, Honest, Temperate & Valorous.
It is not hard to envision circumstances in which any of these might be tested
for a Sun Dome Templar.  

Errant behaviour might be rewarded with an opposed trait check, crass deviancy
with an automatic increase in the opposed trait (and a visit from the Spirits of
Reprisal, maybe?).  For example, lying to an outsider and lying to a brother
Templar.  If you were specifically geased never to lie then, not only do you get
an immediate +1 on your Dishonest, but also Monrogh comes a callin'...

Or, there might be an 'Honour Cult Lore' passion on which some sort of spin
might be put?

In my campaign we are working towards some sort of system by which progress in a
cult is a function of one's religious virtue total.  If it's above 60, you get
access to Common Divine Magic, 70 gets you Reusable Common and One use Special
whilst above 80 gets you the whole arsenal.  Obviously, these levels correspond
to those of Initiate, Acolyte and Priest although we use those terms rather
loosely.  I also allow players to subtract one tenth of their religious virtues
total from their 1d100 DI rolls.

We have nothing firm on paper yet; these are more lines of discussion.  I fully
appreciate that requiring strict adherence to religious virtues for progression
does not have much basis in fact with regards to RW history, but it makes for a
pleasing enough mechanism for rewarding players who endeavour to roleplay the
requirements of their religions well.

>Sorry about that, it's just a whinge I felt I had to get off my chest. 

No worries (as they say in the colonies).

All the best,

Peter




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From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Orlanth Rex; swamps; Great Zimbabwe; geases
Message-ID: <199410042223.AA29992@radiomail.net>
Date: 4 Oct 94 22:23:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6476

Peter Metcalfe wonders
>I have seen the Orlanth Rex subcult in the Orlanth 
>writeup in Heroes and for some reason it was dropped from River of 
>Cradles

Presumably because Orlanth Rex isn't worshipped in Prax. It's a ruler cult,
and Orlanth isn't the ruling god in Prax.

>As O. Rex was invented by Alakoring Dragonslayer, this raises the 
>question of how the Orlanthi organized themselves into SupraClan 
>organizations before.

They probably didn't, or only did so rarely. There are a lot of Orlanthi
that can't effectively do so now.

>The marshes are not exactly the healthiest places to live in the RW, 
>(note how we like to drain our swamps?)

Most of us come from places where we plant a single crop in huge fields, or
live in concrete cities. I think our views of swamps are very different
from the Pamaltelans. I wish I knew more about the Bayou in Mississippi. I
do know the area surrounding Tenochtitlan [today's Mexico City] was once
quite swampy; apparently it didn't prevent a large number of Aztecs from
living nearby, and obtaining many food resources from the swamp.

>it is hard to find a good book on Golden Zimbabwe as most of them 
>are concerned with proving that 'ignorant blacks' could not possibly 
>have constructed them.  Does anybody have good references?

You've got to be kidding. A book I have, but haven't finished, is "The
Mystery of the Great Zimbabwe," by Wilfrid Mallows. "The author believes
that the Great Zimbabwe was built as a ninth-century prison camp for black
slaves before they were deported to the Middle East. His theory differs
substantially from most current explanations."

[One of the articles he cites is entitled "Sofala and the S.E. African Iron
Age." We know the Turtle Goddess played an important role in Glorantha, but
apparently she influenced Africa as well.]

Nick Brooke proposes
>Or making the whole thing more social/open, so that *most* Humakti try to 
>live by *all* the cult's Geases, even though only some of them would suffer 
>terrible punishments for breaking them.

That's how I view it. But how is that different from the situation as written?

>if you rewrote Chalana Arroy 
>(for example) to say that "all Healers must take a Geas to harm no living 
>being"

But that's exactly what they do. Well OK, it's a vow, but there's little
difference between them, except that a geas is imposed by someone else and
a vow is self-sworn.

(In my Ralios campaign, one character just handed all his first aid
supplies to another character before visiting Soothing Touch's Grove, for
fear of possibly violating one of his geases: Never use healer's tools in a
sacred grove in Sea season.)


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From: jcw7@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (Chris Wehman)
Subject: Dirkar the Betrothed
Message-ID: <199410042229.SAA04317@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Date: 4 Oct 94 14:29:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6477

From the Desk of Dirkar Sunspear of Yelm the Warrior
Near Garhound
Fire Season, Harmony Week, Wildday 1615

Addressed to Lars Smithson
Flintnail Temple
Big Rubble

Dear Lars Smithson,

        As you may well already know, I am to be betrothed to the daughter
of Duke Raus.  It seems that my father and mother have finally chosen a
bride for me in the Dara Happan tradition.  I was wondering if you would
accompany me on the trip down to Fort Raus, as it is rather dangerous to
traverse near the North Bog.  There will be other companions as well, you
see.  Pleurius Maximus, the son of the Carmanian exile, should be joining
us, if he can be torn away from his studies.  Also, the Agimori who was on
our shield push team, Hunts Wisely, should be joining us also. He mentioned
something to me about avoiding tribal women or something, but I do not
understand his primitive customs, and it is probably for the best that I
don't.  Also, the half-file of militiamen that I command will be
accompanying us down, as I will perform the requisite hazia-patrol on the
way.  Ohh, that reminds me, you probably didn't know that I had been
conscripted to the militia.  As you might expect, it did not take long
before I was leading my own half-file.  The infernal Sun Dome tactics.  I
believe that a mix with calvary would be a more effective option, but it
has something to do with a silly bargain with the primatives.

        I want to voice my concerns about this betrothal, as it seems
rather strange that I, the son of a Dara Happan soldier and wine maker,
might come to marry the daugther of a Duke.  I bet she is sight to
behold(cringe).  The Duke himself seems to be an industrious chap, though I
have never understood the ancestor worshiping members of Dara Happan
society.  Then again, I left when I was twelve.  I had hoped to be
betrothed to one of the more influential members of the Sun Dome, but I
guessed that this might not happen, after the Junior Shield Push crown was
taken from us for having a disguised female on our team.  I guess to whom I
am married does not matter anyway.  Well, write me back and tell me whether
you can go.  I'm really not sure if you can read. No matter.


                                                Yelm rules through purity,
                                                Dirkar



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From: mmorrison@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
Subject: CA/nonCA resurrexion; geases
Message-ID: <1994Oct4.184535.44082@vnet.ibm.com>
Date: 5 Oct 94 01:45:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6478

*** Reply to note of Tue, 4 Oct 94 09:16:22 +0100
*** by RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM

Simon Lipscomb gave what, for me, was an excellent description of how
resurrexion should be played:  Common for those societies that view
death as a bad thing, rare for those that view death as a good thing.

I think Dave Cordes' ideas can be added to make sure that each GM plays
resurrexion as common or as rare as s/he likes.  If resurrexion is
common for a certain group of people, then it's up to the GM to decide
just how common.

And now we just need a rules mechanism ... I think Dave is spot on
when he says it should be up to the GM.  Let the rules say "This spell
is to be modified in its availability by the GM based on whether s/he
wants this spell to be common or rare" for some of the more powerful
spells, like resurrexion.  Most spells will be as common as they are
now, based on the cult, but some could be -- should be -- modified by
each GM.

I also want to add Nick Brooke's dictum that the GM never cheats.  Let
each GM decide how to run his/r game and all will be well with the world.
Oh that it be so ...

Also Nick talks about geasa.  I agree that any cult that has them ought
to make sure *everyone* follows them, even if they don't have them.
Otherwise, the geased-ones will be revered or scorned out of turn.  In
games I've played in, my Humakti and Yelmalions respected all geasa,
because we could get them one day.  That doesn't means forfeiting armour
etc before we had to, or not talking ever ... it does mean that the
Humakti don't lie (bad habit anyway), don't ambush, don't use poison,
etc.

But geasa are different than the Judeo-Christian Ten Commandments.  Those
are the Law, no matter what -- geasa are only Law if you have them.  I
liken receipt of gifts/geasa as taking of orders in the Catholic or
Anglican Church.  You must have greater piety to receive them, but also
take more responsibility.  As you rise in the cult hierarchy, you must
show yourself to be more pious -- more gifts/geasa.

Cults that don't have gifts/geasa will probably scoff at those that do.
But their members must also show piety as they rise in the ranks --
but in other ways.  That's probably why cults with gifts/geasa have
less Rune/Divine Magic available (am I overstepping my bounds yet?).

Finally, I second Alex's plea for Free Int 8 in English.  My German is
better than 1%, but not at the 70%+ that it should be to read Free Int
without discomfort (like reaching for the dictionary/Woerterbuch every
sentence or so).  When, Joerg, when?

Michael
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From: rowe@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Eric Rowe)
Subject: The Real Truth (tm) about the Red Moon
Message-ID: <199410050713.AAA10576@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: 4 Oct 94 17:13:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6479


This is the absolute truth and final word on what is going on with the
red moon and the glowline. I know it is true, because I heard it from
a guy named sid who is a drinking buddy of the man who cuts Greg
Stafford's hair. This is how it all works....

As you are all aware, we see because of rays of light hitting our
eyes. Most often the rays are reflected by commonplace items about us,
we do not look directly into the sun because the rays are so powerful.
Were we to look at the sun, we would see it, but not for long. Our
eyes would be seared from our audacity.

The red moon, like the sun, is a source of light rays(in this case red
ones).  Areas where the rays of the red moon reach are said to be
within the glowline, for the reflection of red light off objects is
noticible from outside the area. At this point in time the red moon is
not all-powerful, so those in the glow may look upon it and see its
glory. Those outside the glowline are not reached by the rays of the
moon (unlike the sun) and therefore cannot gaze upon its splendor.

The worshippers of the red goddess seek to increase the power of the
red moon.  When they construct a new temple of the reaching moon the
moon is raised slightly higher in the sky which allows the rays of the
moon to reach a larger area of land. The red moon also shifts towards
the center of the expanded glowline. In addition, the increased
worshippers strengthen the moon and its rays.

Eventually, all the world will have temples and the righteous red moon
will have ascended to it's proper height and location in the center of
the sky. Replacing the old and corrupt sun. By then the red moon will
be so splendid to gaze upon it would mean blindness; as it is now so
with the sun. So look now at its splendor children, for you are the
lucky ones blessed by its view.

eric