From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 13 Oct 1994, part 1 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. X-RQ-ID: index 6558: mcarthur = (Robert McArthur) - Re: slarges 6559: bmason = (Bruce Mason) - Oh no sorcery: part 2 6560: ns10005 = (N. Smith) - Moon Gazing 6561: davidc = (David Cake) - Hopefully my last word on the Kitori (for now) 6562: vladt = (Kevin Rose) - Souless Shamans and other oddities 6563: 100116.2616 = (David Hall) - Anthony & Cleopatra? 6564: mmorrison = (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706) - Resurrexion (again) 6565: joe = (Joerg Baumgartner) - Kitori 6566: ns10005 = (N. Smith) - Shamanic Ressurection 6567: pheasant = (Nick Eden) - Aoelian Appologies 6568: DevinC = DevinC@aol.com - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 08 Oct 1994, part 1 6569: bmason = (Bruce Mason) - Oh no sorcery: final part. 6570: sandyp = (Sandy Petersen) - Slarges et al. 6571: ddunham = (David Dunham) - V-pyramids; marriage; Esrolia; heads; slarges 6572: SMITHH = (Harald Smith 617 724-9843) - more moonlight 6573: igorlick = (ian i. gorlick) - Head taking 6574: joe = (Joerg Baumgartner) - Shamans and divine magic 6575: hasni = (Richard Ohlson) - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 11 Oct 1994, part 2 6576: T.J.Minas = (T.J.Minas) - RE: Cult initiation/parent haters! 6577: igorlick = (ian i. gorlick) - Bits needed for resurrection --------------------- From: mcarthur@fit.qut.edu.au (Robert McArthur) Subject: Re: slarges Message-ID: <199410110940.TAA08773@ocean.fit.qut.edu.au> Date: 12 Oct 94 05:40:32 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6558 [Australian joke follows] > Nope. The Slarges live in Wongarissi to the West of Pamaltela. Dunno Sure Greg didn't mean something to do with Ron Barrasi [sp?] - the chief slarge! --------------------- From: ns10005@hermes.cam.ac.uk (N. Smith) Subject: Moon Gazing Message-ID:Date: 12 Oct 94 13:26:02 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6560 Hello all, there has been a lot of talk lately about whether the Red Goddess is visible, waxes/wanes, etc. I vaguely remember, but have so far been unable to find, a 'travelogue' by someone approaching the glow-line and then continuing on to Glamour. This mentioned the change from phasing to an always full moon on crossing the Glowline and the fact that as you approached Glamour the moon appeared lower in the sky, yet seemed to be smaller. I like this because it seems more mystical, gives new players a reminder that Glorantha isn't the RW with funny names, and can give rise to interesting propaganda when they ask about it. eg. Orlanthi- That's the changing face of chaos, ain't it. That's because she struggles against Orlanth but He keeps pushing her away. Lunars- This shows how the Red Goddess can tame chaos, bring it within the power of time. The face of the Goddess always looks on the Blessed, when your land joins Her, you will also see Her at all times. Shaman- She's a big spirit, immortal. Of course Her heart beats slowly. New players can also be caught by sending them over the Glow-line on an errand, which a Lunar magician is trying to prevent. He attacks every full moon, including the night before they cross the Glow-line. They, used to the pattern, think themselves safe, when for the second night running a full moon is noticed. Panic! Confusion! A demonstration that this is not Earth by another name! Sorry for the ramble, feel free to flame... Nigel --------------------- From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake) Subject: Hopefully my last word on the Kitori (for now) Message-ID: <199410120945.RAA20136@cs.uwa.oz.au> Date: 13 Oct 94 01:58:12 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6561 David Hall very usefully mentions >Kitori tribe: > >>From some notes I took at Chaosium (90% accurate): > >Founded by human Argan Argar refugees from the Kingdom of the Only Old One >and the >Trolls of the Troll Woods who sheltered them. This sounds like a very plausible and reasonable history for the Kitori. > They are said to have twin >kings, both said to be married to the Kitori mother, a Kyger Litor >ancestress, who is the founder of a >Daka Fal dynasty which settled the region and took over from the elves in >the 2nd Age. > This is close enough to my own ideas as to be easily reconciled. We now have a clan with two Argan Argari Kings (the Day-King and the Night-King), both allegedly married to the KL Queen (though only the Night-King is likely to consumate this marriage, and he may not anyway). The ruling religions are Daka Fal and Argan Argar. Among the trolls KL blends with Daka Fal. >Estimated population: Man-Kitori 7,000 and Troll-Kitori 10,000. The humans >farm, the >trolls prefer to stay in the shadow of the woods. > OK, so the humans still farm. Still not as much as most Orlanthi, probably. CHeers David Cake >David --------------------- From: vladt@interaccess.com (Kevin Rose) Subject: Souless Shamans and other oddities Message-ID: Date: 11 Oct 94 13:46:18 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6562 Souless Shamans and other oddities. I keep hitting a wall when I consider the concept of the "Presence Vessel" system. It mostly has to do with the concepts of Vampires and other creatures that lack POW casting spells whose manipulation depends on the previous expendature of permanent POW. So, the question I keep coming up with is how does a creature that has no soul create the Vessel? Greg's answer to how vampires cast spirit magic was that they cannot. As they have no permanant power they cannot cast spirit magic. As the fetch is a part of their soul/POW, a vampire or other creature without permanent POW cannot have one. So how can they cast sorcery? I haven't heard an answer that didn't seem to be a rules hack. Rules hacks are fine, but if the claim is that the precensce vessel system is a GUTM (grand unified theory of magic) it doesn't make sense for there to be major execptions. I also have some other problems involving attitudes towards magic by dwarves and many other sorcery users that doesn't really fit Paul's system. Kevin Rose --------------------- From: 100116.2616@compuserve.com (David Hall) Subject: Anthony & Cleopatra? Message-ID: <941011204134_100116.2616_BHG44-2@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Oct 94 20:41:34 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6563 Correction: I think watching the X-Files must have unnerved me. Of course, the Pharaoh is long gone by 1619/20 and the damage done to the City of Wonders is to its defenders. The Kingdom of Malkonwal is a symptom and not a cause of the Pharaoh's demise - though they probably contributed to the breakdown of the Pharaoh's Council. Fazzur the Great: At RQ-Con in Germany Joerg and myself came up with some insights into why the greatest general in all of Glorantha (ever), Fazzur Wideread, was not at his best in the Heortland/Esrolian campaign. I think it is now time for the world to know the truth. The first mistakes in the siege of Whitewall (as we all know) were down to incompetent subordinates - no doubt imposed upon Fazzur by the King of Tarsh. However, Fazzurs subsequent mishandling of the seige and his over-ambitious campaign in Esrolia are frankly mystifying considering his utter brilliance as a strategist and tactician. These miscalculations led to his removal from command and, with hindsight, signalled the beginning of the end for the Lunar Empire. Diligent research has now revealed to me, and to my esteemed colleague, Joerg Baumgartner, that the reason for this was LOVE. Yes, Fazzur was in love, and as a result (temporarily) his mind was unhinged. Who was the object of his attentions? Is it not obvious!? It was none other than the Queen of the Red Earth Alliance. This explains his failure to prosecute the siege of Whitewall with the necessary vigour (he was rarely present at the siege). It also explains Fazzur's anger at the withdrawal of troops from his Esrolian invasion army (which would in fact have opened up a dangerous 2nd front), and his determination to send many of his best men to aid the queen in lieu of the promised troops. Our subsequent research finds some evidence to support the view that even after his dismissal Fazzur was able to rescue the Queen in a daring and brilliantly conceived combined arms raid. The lovers then returned home to Tarsh. It is clear that some difficulties were experienced with his first wife, but after her strangulation (hey, no-one's perfect) they both lived happily ever after. Don't you just love happy endings? Cheers, David --------------------- From: mmorrison@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706) Subject: Resurrexion (again) Message-ID: <1994Oct11.131934.61654@vnet.ibm.com> Date: 11 Oct 94 20:19:34 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6564 *** Reply to note of Tue, 11 Oct 94 09:16:07 +0100 *** by RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM The question was asked about whether taking someone's head would be sufficient to stop resurrexion. Regardless of a soul, I'd say yes. One requirement for resurrexion is having a complete body (or at least the important bits) -- soul or no, the head is important (eyes, ears, not to mention brain ... admittedly bronze age folks probably don't know what the brain is all about). And, last time I looked, you couldn't regrow a head (Regrow Limb). So, no head, no resurrect. After all, isn't that one of the reasons Thanatari take heads? Finally, I just want to say that I think Joerg's and Takehiro's R/W English is significantly higher than 20-30%. I'd say around 75%. After all, you're following many different native speakers on many different topics with (seeming) ease. And your appends are both semantically and syntactically very good -- better than some native English speakers! If my German and Japanese were at 30% (as you both claim for your English), I'd be very happy and able to communicate! As it is, my R/W Japanese is maybe 5% and my R/W German maybe 30% (my scale) ... Michael ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael C. Morrison IMS Information Development Tieline 8-543-4706 Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California (SWS) Phone (408)463-4706 Bitnet ID: MCM at VNET Fax (408)463-4101 Internet ID: MMORRISON@VNET.IBM.COM or USIB47H4@IBMMAIL.COM IBM Mail Exchange ID: USIB47H4 at IBMMAIL or USIB4MCM at IBMMAIL X.400 Address: G=mcmgm; S=morrison; P=ibmmail; A=ibmx400; C=us ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner) Subject: Kitori Message-ID: Date: 12 Oct 94 12:17:56 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6565 David Cake in X-RQ-ID: 6549 > On Joergs City List > - this is very useful, I liked it a lot. Thanks here for all the compliments. In fact, this was a very minor piece of inspiration, just a bit of time sitting down collecting and assessing the facts. If people really liked it, I might be tempted to do a similar list for the Dragon Pass locations - I expect more corrections and input there, though. >>IMO the House of Black Arkat is situated somewhere north of the Kingdom >>of Malkonwal, since I cannot imagine that the du Tumerine Rokari would >>have tolerated this nest of heresies for long. > There are an awful lot of heretics! I think the Rokari achieve > political rule - but I do not think that they have the time to consolidate > religious rule. In the short time that the Rokari run the place, they > hardly have the time to be disbanding every minor temple. Disbanding is one way to call it. Confiscation of heathen symbols that happen to be made of valuable materials is a totally different motivation for zealous and covetous new rulers to inspect the holy places in their new lands. Both the du Tumerines (who come from a mercantile family after all) and Richard's boon companions, mostly second and later sons, will be set upon getting heirlooms for their own lines of the family. >>The IMO most likely place for the House of Black Arkat would be in >>the neighbourhood of Smithstone, roughly at the place where a tributary >>forks north from the Marzeel River, into Sun Dome County. This is >>conveniently equidistant from both the Troll Woods and the Shadow Plateau, >>in a region not infested by other Henotheists or Stygians, close enough to >>cause trouble with Yelmalio worshippers, and within reach for human Kitori >>who want to study there rather than in their woods. > I still think that it could easily be farther South, but this is an > OK position. As long as it is out of troll territory, as the trolls already > have their own Arkat temples. My argument against a location farther south is that there would be a constant source of bloody heads between them and Aeolians, who IMO think that Arkat becoming a troll and ZZ member was not a commendable action. I'm not even sure they think it is necessary, but I know David Hall's write-up and that he thinks they regard this step as a necessary one. David, publish your version! David Hall's info on the Kitori was also very appreciated. Are there any infos on the rough populations of the Sartarite and Volsaxi tribes and clans (other than the piece on the Colymar's fighting strength by an urban Lunar used to Pelorian peasants)? The Sartar High Council freeform scenario in WF7 has numbers attached to the members, as indicators of their political and military weight. Would these (rather low numbers, e.g. 6500 for the Colymar tribe, 3300 for the Culbrea) be usable as a basis for calculating rough data on settlements and fyrd? (I take these numbers to be fyrd numbers, otherwise I'd have difficulties to add up to the approximately 180,000 inhabitants of Sartar.) -- -- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de --------------------- From: ns10005@hermes.cam.ac.uk (N. Smith) Subject: Shamanic Ressurection Message-ID: Date: 11 Oct 94 14:21:08 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6566 A quick, and poorly explained, idea. Lunchtimes are getting shorter! A total guess, but wouldn't most of the spirits which possess ressurection spells be CA initiates (from various discussions about CA Temple sizes)? If this is the case, then shaman should be careful as to the way in which they handle these spirits, since Controling or Binding them could be construed as an attack on a CA initiate--with all problems which would result from an attack against a mortal CA cultist. This brings a new dimension to shamanic ressurection--bargaining. The spirit would wish to comply but would then have to return to the spell source or a temple to regain the spell, as per normal, and thus Glorantha would lose the benefits of an active Health Spirit for a period of time. Can you make an offer it can't refuse? Nigel --------------------- From: pheasant@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden) Subject: Aoelian Appologies Message-ID: Date: 12 Oct 94 12:14:07 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6567 David I abase myself before you. For some reason I'd got the idea that Nick B was the first name on this list and had been bandying his name about as the inventor of the Aoelian church. Sorry. I'd suggest not publishing too much more about them until after RQ Con II. Some brave soul will have to play Gwydion again, and it would be less fun if all the Rokari scum knew everything about him. --------------------- From: DevinC@aol.com Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 08 Oct 1994, part 1 Message-ID: <9410111516.tn365381@aol.com> Date: 11 Oct 94 19:16:43 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6568 Devin here: Brian writes: "Not to blow my own horn (Okay, I'll blow it)--There is a writeup of the Vinga subcult on the ftp archive for the daily, ftp.csua.berkeley.edu The cult is in the /pub/runequest/cults directory." Well, could it be posted here for those of us who cannot ftp? Regards, Devin devinc@aol.com --------------------- From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham) Subject: V-pyramids; marriage; Esrolia; heads; slarges Message-ID: <199410112220.AA16928@radiomail.net> Date: 11 Oct 94 22:20:33 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6571 BTW, how do the proposed inverted pyramids of the Kingdom of Ignorance stand up? Even regular pyramids are tricky (there's a pyramid in Egypt which was under construction when another pyramid collapsed; the architects accepted a change order, and the slope of the pyramid changes to make the whole structure a little lighter). Alex believes >Well, technically, one doesn't join the clan one "marries into", As I run Ralios, you _do_ join the clan you marry into. The wife can participate in her new clan's heroquest, and gain access to the clan hero power. (At the expense of not being able to use her original clan's hero power, since she didn't attend their heroquest. She can, circumstances permitting, rejoin her birth-clan at Sacred Time and participate in their heroquest.) Marriage is very much between two clans, at least at the noble level. Ekel Field-Destroyer would love to have his remaining unmarried daughter find a match in the powerful Nardain tribe. It would form important links between their clans, and to a lesser extent, between the Riagos and Nardain tribes. Sandy said >While the "women rule" bit of Esrolia may or not be a >stereotype, I would expect to find women in command of their armies, >but men forming the bulk of the armed forces. I agree, you put it better than I did. Aside to Sandy: physically, the best jet fighter pilots would be short, fat women. The limit on fighter performance is the human ability to take Gs, and short, fat women can take more than us tall, lean men. Paul Snow asked >Does collecting the heads of fallen enemies, in a Celtic-Orlanthi >way, prevent resurrection? and Sandy gave a "no" answer. Despite running an East Ralios game where the Orlanthi _do_ collect heads, I hadn't given this a whole lot of thought (since resurrection isn't easily available). The obvious difficulty with resurrecting someone with a missing head is that they'd be headless. So for practical purposes, head-removal would work. However, I lean towards Sandy's interpretation, and with mighty healing magics, you could probably regrow the head. The real reason to take heads is to _use_ them. No, not in the Thanatari way, a perversion no doubt introduced by Arkat the Devil. Two possible rules (described in PenDragon Pass terms): Displaying the head of an enemy's kin makes that enemy -2 against you (though it may also inspire him to Love Family). DEMORALIZE variable, ranged, passive If this spell overcomes the target's POW, he must make a Cowardly roll, at +2 for each magic point in the spell. If this succeeds, he loses faith in the ability of himself and his party to win a fight, find treasure, rescue the princess, etc. He uses no offensive tactics, and casts only defensive and heal spells. If practical, he will withdraw from combat. Any Valorous rolls needed are at -2 per point while the spell is active. Having a head of a kinsman of the target adds to the effective magic points of the spell: +1 point against members of the head's clan, +2 against members of the head's bloodline, +3 against brother, son, or father. This spell counteracts Fanaticism; if it's larger than the Fanaticism, it forces a Cowardly roll based on the excess. Peter Metcalfe asked of slarges: >Does anybody have more info about them other than whats been said of >in elder secrets? Note that there are slarges in Griffin Island (on the cover, even). This supplement is lamentably out of print -- yeah, it's not as good as Griffin Mountain, and it's not Gloranthan, but it's a nice low-level campaign with very good handouts. --------------------- From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 724-9843) Subject: more moonlight Message-ID: <01HI59EB5X9MS9NOKY@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU> Date: 11 Oct 94 04:39:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6572 - Eric responds to my comments on the Red Moon in X-RQ-ID 6514 Eric suggests that until the Fourth Wane the moon was just an ordinary chunk of rock. > Only at the time of Yana Aranis and the creation of the reaching moon temples did the moon begin to give off rays of it's own. Before that the moon was seen the same way you could see anything, reflected light from the sun. Well, I have a couple problems with this. First, the Sun is ABOVE the moon and the light would be on top, not the side (unless you come up with some convoluted theory about light bending downward). And further, the Sun is only present during the day, not the night when the Moon is most noticeable. Second, this implies that the moon and Red Goddess lack light powers until the appearance of Yara Aranis--a contention I think is disproved by the Battle of the Four Arrows of Light where the goddess clearly demonstrates her powers over light. Only the First Arrow (the glamours) would suggest measly reflective properties. Third, the troll gods would not have had a problem with a body that merely reflected sunlight since that would not shed light during the night and violate the Compromise. If you really want to contend that the Red Goddess had no light powers of her own, but merely used the Sun's, then I think it much more probable that she gathers the light of the Sun and releases it as she will and where she will. But the whole idea of her rise into the sky and the rise of the Crater parallels the aspect of Yelm/Murharzarm upon the Footstool too closely. > Hopefully you can remember what day it is. This comment related more to the roving searchlight that Nick Brooke proposed a while back and depended on which way the goddess was facing. Where Wildday might be the Full Moon day in Dragon Pass it would be a Black or Dying Moon day in Eol. However, if the Glowline ensures a full moon and you can't see the moon outside the Glowline (as you would propose) why bother with phases? If I'm a Lunar magician and leave the Glowline and can no longer see the Moon, I'm going to distrust my magic regardless of the now unseen phase. > It is my contention that she is indeed contesting the for the middle air, but from the lower air. When Orlanth is finally defeated she will rise higher and be visible farther than at present. I think the whole 'contesting' idea is in fact that the problem is for the red moon to rise higher, she must conquer and place temples in Orlanthi lands. This is a reasonable argument, but I suggest that you tell people to stop making maps that show otherwise then. > I would have expected Knights and Dragons to have come marching into central Genertela long ago. The Knights did--they were Carmanians. The Orlanthi did--allies of Jannisor and then Vareleus/Gwythar. The nomads did. The dragons don't care or else see it as the proper merging of dark and light into one.