From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 17 Oct 1994, part 1 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. X-RQ-ID: index 6617: 100102.3001 = (Peter J. Whitelaw) - Alex Fer'Geasa'n 6618: goroh = (Andre de Oliveira Fernandes) - curving lights 6619: ANDOVER = ANDOVER@delphi.com - Missing issues 6620: ANDOVER = ANDOVER@delphi.com - Griffin Island back to Griffin Mountain 6621: alex = (Alex Ferguson) - Shear Loonacy 6622: alex = (Alex Ferguson) - Soul-searching. 6623: alex = (Alex Ferguson) - Lismelder 6624: MAudley = (Audley, Mark) - sub list MAudley@VCOMSVOP.TELECOM.com.au 6625: alex = (Alex Ferguson) - Shamans and divine magic 6626: davidc = (David Cake) - Some Pamaltela ideas 6627: alex = (Alex Ferguson) - re: Those damn Kitori and Arkati, still 6628: ddunham = (David Dunham) - Dwarvish traits; weddings --------------------- From: 100102.3001@compuserve.com (Peter J. Whitelaw) Subject: Alex Fer'Geasa'n Message-ID: <941016110803_100102.3001_BHJ42-2@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Oct 94 11:08:03 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6617 Hi all, Alex responds to some meandering thoughts about Gifts and Geases: >Peter J. Whitelaw: >> I cannot envision a 'formula' for such rewards since they >> would be derived from he GM's appraisal of the players' good roleplaying. > >Not really, geasa are pretty much either literally observed, or broken; >college tries or "breaching the spirit" are fairly beside the point, I >think. Yes Indeed. To clarify my point: I was referring to the nature of the rewards themselves being a function of the GM's appraisal. If, for example, a PC had stringently adhered to all his Geasa as well as those other 'behavioural recommendations' of his religion I might feel more inclined to cut him some more slack (Luck rolls, DI etc.) than a PC that adhered only to his Geasa and spent the rest of the time wearing armour and being nice to trolls. >> If one is using PDP, however, the concept might well be abstracted in terms of >> the Traits & Pasions mechanism. > >Only in very general terms (though I approve of using T&P, in any >case). One could admittedly attempt to unify the two, say by making >breach or conspicuous observance of a geas cause for decrease or >increase of the most-obvious-related Trait (or by using directed >Traits). Frex, one could say the various Never Eat geasa were >Temperate ones, the armour ones were Valourous ones, etc. (So breaking >one of the former might get you an Indulgent check, even if you don't >"have" that geas.) This is pretty much what I had in mind. >> Obviously, these levels correspond to those of Initiate, >> Acolyte and Priest although we use those terms rather loosely. > >Well, they don't, quite, Perhaps I ought to have inserted 'could' between 'levels' and 'correspond'. >I'm not sure that Common magic should be easier >to obtain than Special spells. Judging by spell availability at shrines, >Lodril temples, and for some flavours of Rune Lord, the reverse seems to >be more true. Hmmm.Yes, you're probably right. ****** All the best, Peter --------------------- From: goroh@fee.unicamp.br (Andre de Oliveira Fernandes) Subject: curving lights Message-ID: <199410161419.MAA16451@diamante.fee.unicamp.br> Date: 16 Oct 94 10:19:08 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6618 > Second: Make a little drawing. Light curving UP would be hitting the >south face of the Moon - Light curving DOWN would be more on the top. ANd >the Clement Longhair theory (promulgated by me and quoted by Greg) is >that light, like Fire, tend to rise toward its natural home, the Sky World. >Thus, Light curves UP and Moon is sunlit on its southern face, not on >top. Even with straight light rays (pshaw) the southern face of the Moon >is lit. Draw a side view of Glorantha and convince yourself. Hmmm.... Gotta change my Gloranthan ray-tracing algorythim... --------------------- From: ANDOVER@delphi.com Subject: Missing issues Message-ID: <01HICJKVI8OY9PM5Q4@delphi.com> Date: 16 Oct 94 10:57:03 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6619 I have not received anything for Wednesday, October 12, Saturday October 15, or Sunday October 16. Is this a general condition or something specific to me? If the latter, I would appreciate anyone who would forward the text of the three missing days to me. Thanks! Jim Chapin --------------------- From: ANDOVER@delphi.com Subject: Griffin Island back to Griffin Mountain Message-ID: <01HICK748CA09PM5Q4@delphi.com> Date: 16 Oct 94 11:19:31 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6620 In response to Paul's inquiry. The main changes are the addition of orcs and slarges; a new city; the transformation of Halcyon var Enkarth into an incredibly powerful sorceror; and a few major new characters (Granny Keeneye, Arskus Gree, etc.). In our campaign in Balazar, we added the new city (put it on the north side of the Elf Sea and made its history shorter), left out the orcs but kept a few mysterious slarges (so we could keep the trolls); gave the new powers of Halycon to Arskus Gree, and put the Redeye temple under his tower as a depraved Lunar heresy. Granny is out there as a frightening rumor for the players: Blueface has interacted with them to get the adamantine spike, which is part of his long-run plan to get rid of her (they don't know that). Jim Chapin --------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson) Subject: Shear Loonacy Message-ID: <9410162252.AA05254@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 16 Oct 94 22:52:08 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6621 Nick asides: > Maybe [Argrath], and other White Moonies In what sense is Argrath a Moonie? I can think of several ways in which this may or may not be true, but the casual reference is confusing/intruiging. Alex. --------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson) Subject: Soul-searching. Message-ID: <9410162327.AA05426@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 16 Oct 94 23:27:45 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6622 Sandy plays Spot that Soul: > Because most roleplayers come from a > modern society which has decided that man's "life" centers in the > brain, most roleplayers assume that the same must be true of their > characters as well. I've tried to claim before that the liver is > where the soul is centered. The heart is another claimant. Seems most plausible that the Gloranthan jury is hung on the issue. Maybe Yelmic belief is for the brain, Orlanthi the heart, Westerners may take the view of Platonic dualists, and the Kralori, holists. I'd suggest the stomach for trolls, but this would raise the obvious question: which one? (I'll say "entire GI tract" for now.) An interesting question would be what happens when these interact in some way; frex, if an Orlanthi cuts out a Lunar's heart, and his body gets taken to a Yelmic healer. My first thought is that the beliefs of the resurrector (especially where they coincide with those of the resurrectee) should be the principle determinant > On the other hand I _like_ the idea that > to prevent resurrection you've got to do a little more than lop off > the head and carry it off (like excise the heart). Probably "rather less" is more like it in practice, due to the difficulties of fixing up badly mutilated bodies, but that's less a ultimate limitation than a T-hitch in fixing up the non-contiguous or incomplete corpse. > Hah. I've seen ye both. "Stick Insect" is the word. You [Joerg], > Alex, and John Cleese. I think Sandy is just _gagging_ for a spate of endomorph jokes, but I'm bigger than that. Well, vertically, at least. > I would say that a heretic dwarf who joined a > lightbringer cult could be resurrected through CA magic. For that > matter, I'd allow a Brithini who'd spent his lifetime persecuting > lightbringer cults to be resurrected through CA magic I note that Sandy stops short of claiming an _orthodox_ dwarf could be CA-resurrected. Maybe this is because the Brithini does share some reference points for belief in a soul (and in resurrection), even if he thinks it doesn't survive death in any long-term way. > Just like > there's _one_ soft-hearted Death Lord somewhere. Doubtless in the sense of being on a high-fibre diet (lots of aldryami) and hence having comparatively unclogged arteries. Alex. --------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson) Subject: Lismelder Message-ID: <9410162349.AA05437@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 16 Oct 94 23:49:28 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6623 David Hall says, with weird columnation (I blame Word, for this as for so much else): > I reckon that a Lismelder tribesman or woman initiated into the cult of > Indrodar cuts > themself off from their previous life and from their kin. > [...] However, individuals are also hired out as housecarls to > Chieftains, and this is the way I get PC Indrodari back into the campaign! I agree with the logic of David's argument, but I'm not entirely sanguine with the results. This seems to suggest that no Humakti can hold "rank" in the Lismelder greater than housecarl/weaponsthane. Now, for most tribes, this makes perfect sense: a Humakti has all the social and political influence of a whelk, but I see them as more important among the Lismelder (say, more like a mussel). > Earth Esrolia [...] > Water The Islands > Logic God Forgot Or Law, the zeroth/first/sixth/seventh/ahdunnoth "element", even. Alex. --------------------- From: MAudley@VCOMSVOP.TELECOM.com.au (Audley, Mark) Subject: sub list MAudley@VCOMSVOP.TELECOM.com.au Message-ID: <2EA2D921@msmail.trl.oz.au> Date: 17 Oct 94 14:56:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6624 sub list MAudley@VCOMSVOP.TELECOM.com.au --------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson) Subject: Shamans and divine magic Message-ID: <9410170101.AA05491@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 17 Oct 94 01:01:28 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6625 Joerg parodies mercilessly: > Apparently a lot of people tend to think of getting a divine spell like > this: [comic turn follows] I'm becoming increasingly confused by the thread: aren't we all saying much the same thing, and disagreeing about terminology? > There will be a difference between a first-time aquisition of a spell > and successive sacrifice for more points of that same spell I sense another Rune Power Too convert, just _waiting_ to happen. ;-) > Now, if the divine aquisition of a spell already is connected to such a > miniquest, why shouldn't a shaman undergo the same quests? I think the biggest variable in what sort of quest you do isn't in which spell it's for, it's in the nature of the religion doing the questing. For shamanistic religions especially, where the quest may be very much more "personalised" (or ad hoc, according to your biases) than in a theistic religion. "I spoke with the Lightning Spirit, he told me to go to the top of the Condor Crags, collect six amber stones, and wait until the angry spirit comes." Or something quite different, depending on that shaman's own tradition, and personal experience. Alex. --------------------- From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake) Subject: Some Pamaltela ideas Message-ID: <199410170443.MAA13540@cs.uwa.oz.au> Date: 17 Oct 94 20:56:21 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6626 I have been reading up on African myth recently, and I have got a few ideas that I would like to hear any comments on. The most important is evil figures within Doraddi society. I know that the Doraddi are in general more peaceful and cooperative than most Genertelans, and I think that this is a good thing. I do not think that there should be large antagonistic religions like there are in Genertela. But African myth is filled with evil sorcerers (and accusations of sorcery against other tribe members still happen today). I would like there to be ways for evil people to cast evil magic. Most of the figures of evil in Doraddi myth currently are external, like Sikkanos or Vovisibor. So far the best I have come up with is evil shamans could ask for help from the King of Below. So what other thoughts or suggestions do people have on evil magicians within Doraddi society? I have one really good idea, still not written up, for a sort of voodoo like cult that is insidious and, while not necessarily evil, useable by evil people. Hyenas - in African myth they are rather evil. They are used as servants by witches and sorcerers, and there are Hyena men that have a lot in common with werewolves. Do Hyenas exist in Pamaltela? I know that in Genertela Hyena is a trickster, but it could be quite different in Pamaltela. Ogres - I like to think that ogres exist as well. Crocodiles - crocodiles make good powerful and dangerous water spirits. I think that many water sources are haunted by crocodile spirits. This is not always a problem to the people though, if crocodile is happy. Many of them are the husbands of the Naiads, and so happy. Some of them are monsters, though. More ideas later. Cheers Dave --------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson) Subject: re: Those damn Kitori and Arkati, still Message-ID: <9410170458.AA06309@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 17 Oct 94 04:58:53 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6627 David Cake persists in his Two Tribes origin theory: > I think that the marriage probably happened at the > time of the OOO's rule, with AA rule providing some cultural links between > the two, and allied troll and human tribes being politically expedient for > both. A tribal merger at the instigation of the OOO is getting early enough to be more Mythology than History. If it were this ancient, their stories would be unlikely to acknowledge a diverse origin, even if it were "really" true (which I also remain skeptical of). > Think of KL as taking the place of Ancestor worship and shamanism > among the humans. Hard to think of it this way when you tell me the humans don't do it. If each worships separate sets of ancestors, or one doesn't at all, then this rather underscore the separateness of their origins. > >> Much too dull. There are enough founder deities around (though a > >> married pair if founder deities is bearable). > You were the one who said it was a cop out! In the sense I expounded on: trouble is, just naming and labelling a deity doesn't tell us much about it. > I was merely agreeing with you Were not. ;-) > > I'm thinking of something which has KL-style "ancestor" > >worship shades to it, as well as being a founder cult per se. This is > >a cop out in the sense of effectively "relabelling" religious strands to > >be more acceptable to all. > I like this idea, but I am unsure why you need a single founder > deity to make it work. You don't, but you'd need what is effectively a single _cult_, worshipped, or at least acknowledged, by the whole tribe. > > (most trolls don't even have tribes, mind you) > Look at page 39 of Uz Lore, which consists mostly of a list of > troll tribes - most trolls do have tribes, generally springing from a > common ancestress. These are not so much "tribes" in anything like the human sense as "extra- large clans". Dagori Ingarth is also a very "civilised" area by troll standards, and I think most troll social groupings (whether we call them clans or tribes) are smaller. Anyway, this is pretty beside the point (such as it was). > The Kitori allow human clans, but apart from that are > probably organised on relatively conventional lines. By virtue of not having a common ancestor, they surely can't be. > From the point of view of the Elder Kin of Dagori Inkarth, I think > trolls allowing humans into their tribe is their mistake, and their > foolishness, and welcome to it [...] But allowing humans into the KL cult > is vile [...] I wouldn't want those folks mad at me. I think those folks would consider this alleged distinction between joining the cult and joining the tribe petty-fogging and pedantic, and say so loudly as they ate your brains. The nature of KL adoption is that anyone who has undergone it _is_ a troll, even if they look kinda funny and not 100% uzko-like. What is required to satisfy this may vary considerably, even to the point of being less regularly fatal then the "standard" version. Doubtless never pain or risk free, though. Alex. --------------------- From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham) Subject: Dwarvish traits; weddings Message-ID: <199410170515.AA22411@radiomail.net> Date: 17 Oct 94 05:15:40 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6628 Joerg asked about Pendragon traits for dwarfs. I'd give 'em all very large traits (perhaps 19 in things like Energetic, Temperate, Worldly) to indicate that they rarely have free will. (Pendragon only forces personality rolls when your traits are extreme, 16+.) Has anyone run an Orlanthi wedding? I abstracted the last ones in my East Ralios campaign. It's possible there'll be another, and it might be nice to have more detail. I know the last ones were big affairs, with people showing up from all over, and gifts given to the couple. A priest of Orlanth would preside. ---------------------