From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 18 Oct 1994, part 2 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk --------------------- From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 724-9843) Subject: imtherian lbq story Message-ID: <01HIDWPKJD74S9PLBY@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU> Date: 17 Oct 94 09:10:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6637 (This story is a piece of the Imtherian Lightbringer cycle. It pertains to the character Noss, the Imtherian equivalent of Flesh Man.) The Madness of Noss by Harald Smith When the world went dark and the plants began to die, too, the people decided that they had failed the gods. This realization caused great fear amongst the people because they did not know how they had failed. So they called upon two of the people to go up to the great mountain at the center of the world (known by all as the Spike) and ask the gods what they should do. The first chosen was Theraf, for he was the leader of the people, a mighty man full of strength and wisdom. The second chosen was Noss, for he was like an opposite of Theraf, a plain man who spent his time dancing amidst the trees or rolling in the grass. Since the people did not know the will of the gods, they reasoned that one or the other should be able to understand the ways of the gods once they reached them. Theraf and Noss set off for the great mountain from their home. Theraf wore the blessings of the people. He wore greaves of seametal, taken from the rivers themselves and as light as the flowing water. These were yet so strong that they could turn any blow. He wore a skirt and shirt of copper, taken from the mountains that guarded the four directions. These were as solid as the earth itself and impenetrable to any blow. He wore braces of pure silver, captured from the clouds. These were so magical that they would turn all opposing magics back against their caster. He wore a helm of gold, gifted from Khelmal, son of Yelem, who dwelt amongst the people. This helm was so radiant that it would render any foe helpless should they gaze upon it. Finally, he carried the Spear of Law and Justice, the very weapon the gods themselves had given to the people to aid them in all their tasks. Bearing these gifts of the people, Theraf was ready for any fight. Noss however refused such blessings. He wore an old robe of grey wool, which he fashioned for himself years before. Though it itched him horribly, he was happy with it. He also wore a pair of linen sandals, so worn with age that several toes stuck out and the sole of one would not even protect against a rock. Though they were almost useless, Noss was happy with them. Only one item did Noss take--a crown of flowers woven by the children of the people. And he only took this because it made him happy. Theraf and Noss walked and walked south toward the great mountain. As they went farther and farther, the great Spike seemed to grow higher and higher and broader and broader, reaching up to the peak of the heavens themselves. Occasionally, bandits or beasts would halt them, but Theraf turned each aside with ease. Noss laughed and danced, and though there were none to laugh and dance with, he was still happy. Occasionally, he even rolled upon the dead grass or ran through the dead forests, catching twigs and straw within his robe. When they reached the Unbreakable Bridge, they were met by a small dwarf who scowled at them. "Who are you and what do you seek?" the dwarf asked. Theraf answered, "We are the spokesmen for the people and we come to question the gods." Noss smiled and nodded, though mostly he played with a spider's web which he had found. The dwarf shook his head. "None may go to question the gods. I allow none to pass." So saying, the dwarf drew a mighty axe that glowed with radiant magic. Theraf smiled. "We shall see about that, for I carry the gifts of the people and the gods. With these, all must part before me." The two circled and closed, fought and retreated, again and again throughout the day. Stars moved above and winds howled below. Noss finally tired of waiting and walked across the bridge while the two continued their fight. Turning back, Noss called out, "Hurry up Theraf! The gods are waiting." The dwarf turned at this sound and grew enraged at Noss. But while he was turned, Theraf struck with the Spear of Law and Justice, hurling the dwarf off the Unbreakable Bridge. Theraf then crossed the bridge to join Noss again. Together, they continued on the path to the mountain top. While they were walking up the path, Noss heard a small voice near his ear. He looked around but couldn't see anyone. "Who said that?" he asked. "Why, it is I, the spider," said the creature which dangled from the web that he had placed upon his head. "Oh," said Noss. "Well, I'm glad to have your company. Theraf doesn't say much, and he certainly never wants to play. Do you?" "Of course," replied the spider. "We can play a game real soon. I bet that you can walk right through that shadow ahead." Noss looked and saw the shadow which rapidly approached. "I bet I can, too." Noss waited while Theraf charged ahead against the shadow to do battle with it. He smiled while Theraf jabbed it with his spear. He smiled while Theraf turned the shadow's magics aside with his silver braces. He smiled when he walked forward and through the shadow. Turning back, Noss called out, "Hurry up Theraf! The gods are waiting." Discovering that Noss had walked right through the shadow, Theraf stopped fighting and did the same. The shadow dispersed around him. They continued on up the path. Pretty soon the spider spoke again. "Would you like to play another game? If you do, I bet that you can walk right over that horrible water serpent ahead." Noss looked and saw the serpent which coiled around and over the ground ahead. "I bet I can, too." Noss waited while Theraf charged the serpent to do battle with it. He smiled while Theraf jabbed it with his spear. He smiled while Theraf turned the serpent's bites aside with his seametal greaves. He smiled when he walked forward and then jumped over the serpent. Turning back, Noss called out, "Hurry up Theraf! The gods are waiting." Discovering that Noss had jumped right over the serpent, Theraf stopped fighting and did the same. The serpent hissed, but did not follow him. They continued on up the path. Pretty soon the spider spoke again. "Would you like to play another game? If you do, I bet that you can walk right around that ugly gnome ahead." Noss looked and saw the gnarled and craggy gnome which blocked the path ahead. "I bet I can, too." Noss waited while Theraf charged the ugly gnome to do battle with it. He smiled while Theraf jabbed it with his spear. He smiled while Theraf turned the gnome's rocky fists aside with his copper shirt. He smiled when he walked forward and around the gnome. Turning back, Noss called out, "Hurry up Theraf! The gods are waiting." Discovering that Noss had walked right around the gnome, Theraf stopped fighting and did the same. The gnome shook its fists at him but did not follow. They continued on up the path. Pretty soon the spider spoke again. "Would you like to play another game? If you do, I bet that you can dance with that puffy cloud ahead." Noss looked and saw the puffy cloud ahead which gathered its breath in its huge cheeks to blow everyone off the path. "I bet I can, too." Noss waited while Theraf charged the puffy cloud to do battle with it. He smiled while Theraf jabbed it with his spear. He smiled while Theraf's radiant helm blinded the cloud and caused its breath to go astray. He smiled when he walked forward and danced with the cloud until he was past it. Turning back, Noss called out, "Hurry up Theraf! The gods are waiting." Discovering that Noss had danced with the cloud until he was past, Theraf stopped fighting and did the same. The cloud blew out great gusts of wind but the winds could not follow them. They continued on up the path. At last, though, they reached a gate of gold. Beyond it they could see the Garden of the Gods. Theraf looked around for a guardian to fight, but could find none. Placing his hand upon the gate, he opened it and entered. Noss followed and immediately started rolling in the grass and dancing around the trees. But neither found anyone to talk to. After sitting awhile, puzzling about where the gods were, the spider spoke again. "Why don't you both take off your garments?" she asked. "After all, the gods don't like armed people in their garden." Noss thought this a grand idea and quickly stripped off his robe and sandals. Theraf was less sure, but eventually took off his armaments and laid his spear aside. Still the gods did not show themselves, so the two went to sleep. They were woken by rough hands shaking them. Sitting up, they found themselves surrounded by grey-maned gods with eyes of iron. These gods wore flowing robes of grey and white, whipped back by winds. In their right hands were swords while their left hands gripped the necks of serpents. Theraf rose to address the gods. "We have come to ask the gods a question." The leader of the gods, whose mane was whiter than the rest and whose brows all but covered up his eyes, laughed. "You come to ask us questions? Puny mortal, we answer to none. Here strength rules and rules alone. We have conquered the world and we do as we see fit." Theraf looked around at the gathered gods. "Who are you?" he finally asked. The leader glowered in rage. "Who am I! I am Umatum! I rule the world! I, who conquered weak-willed Yelem and sent him to his death, am the master of the mountain now and of all below the mountain!" Stepping forward, Umatum seized the armaments of Theraf. "These are good and useful. I claim them as my own." Theraf made to protest, but Umatum continued, picking up the Spear of Law and Justice. "This, though, is useless. It is a tool of Yelem which no longer belongs here." And with a mighty twist, Umatum shattered the spear into a thousand pieces and cast it down from the mountain. Theraf could bear the affront no longer. These were not his gods, but usurpers. Though now without armaments and weapons, but raised his fists against foul Umatum. But these gods were faster and stronger than Theraf. Swords came down upon him. Serpents bit his flesh. The sons of Umatum grabbed his limbs and pulled his body to pieces and cast it down upon the world. One piece came down to the people and they knew despair in Theraf's failure. But Umatum and his sons just laughed. Through all this, Noss sat upon the ground and listened. Umatum and his sons in turn ignored Noss, for he was but a puny mortal, without weapons or armor. The spider spoke to him, though. "Would you like to play another game? If you do, there is a well in the midst of this garden. I bet that you can look into it and even take a drink out of it." Noss looked around the garden and noted where all the gods were. "I bet I can, too." He got up and sauntered merrily through the garden. Sometimes a son of Umatum would approach him, but he just danced with the son or walked around the son, depending on his mood. The sons just laughed and thought him crazy. Noss finally reached the well. As he was about to gaze into its depths, he heard the voice of Umatum. "What do you think you are doing?" Noss looked up and smiled. "Why I was just going to look into this well and see if there was any water in it to drink." "That well is forbidden to all, but me. I rule here and that is what I say." Noss still smiled. "Well, if that is the case, why don't you let me get some water for you?" Umatum thought upon this. Certainly, there could be no harm in letting someone fetch water for him. After all, he was the ruler of all the gods now. "Very well. You may fetch me water. Mind that you don't drink any yourself, though!" So Noss picked up a dipper and leaned over the well. He looked into the water with his smiling face. As he looked, he saw his face vanish and the world swirled beneath his gaze. He beheld the sons of Umatum tearing around the world and pulling it apart. He beheld a son of Umatum lifting the sky dome off its axis and opening the world to the void. He saw chaos enter the world and consume it piece by piece. He saw Umatum himself bound and chained. He saw the great mountain disappear amidst the horrors of the void. He saw the fabric of the world stretch and thin and tear apart. He saw the horror of the future. His smile fled his face. His soul filled with knowledge. He raised the dipper to his lips and drank. The spider whispered in his ear, "Run!" and he did. Behind him he heard the bellows of Umatum, but that was nothing compared to the horrors which now filled his soul. Madness overtook him as he passed through the garden's gate. He leapt from the top of the great mountain, hoping to find death, too. But winds caught in the spider web which still clung to him. Like a sail it billowed out and carried him slowly downward, westward, toward a distant land. Seas raged below, winds raged around, but still he drifted on. As he drifted, he saw the visions come to pass. He heard the laughter of the sons of Umatum as they broke the power of life. He saw chaos enter the world. He saw Umatum bound and chained. He saw the world mountain shatter and the world well destroyed. He saw the dead flee past him. He saw the world defeated and destroyed. He saw the fabric of the world stretch and tear. Worst of all, he knew that only he alone knew the future of the world. He wanted to die himself. Finally, he came down before a gate, the Gate of Dusk, but it was locked and barred to his passing. He wanted to pass through, but he could not. In his madness, though, he knew that others would come there too. All the world would come there, for all the world was about to die. He would wait so that he too could die and find peace once more. --------------------- From: erisie@utu.fi (Sven *Erik Sievrin) Subject: Re:Vessels, vampires and cyberdwarves.... Message-ID:Date: 18 Oct 94 01:13:20 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6638 First, thanks alot for (xxxxxxxx)'s sorcery rules. They were interesting, but they cause a lot of questions, most of which other people already asked during the last days. The answers given to these by both (xxxx) and others were almost as interesting as the rules suggestions that caused them. Here are some more questions, as well as a few comments: -As I understand it one of the precepts is that the persons who turn their whole life to magic always do something special with their hidden self. The shaman awakwns it and lives alongside it, the priest sacrifices it to his god, and the sorceress (used as rules term, not in the Western Gloranthan sense) controls it. What about the shaman who is also a priest? You stated that the henotheists could not have a Vessel since they are supposed to give their hidden self to their gods, so the "sorcerer who is a priest" has been taken care of, but what about the shaman/priest? (I define a "priest" as someone who gets reusable divine magic - horribly mechanically, I know, but I suppose the mechanics reflect a similar relation between the magic of a priest/acolyte/runelord and that of an initiate in the "real" Glorantha) Since the shaman uses his hidden self as a fetch, how can it be with his god? I have two explanations myself : 1, I take the sacrifice too literally. The shaman's fetch has been DEDICATED to his god(s), but it is still with him. This mean, I suppose, that if the shaman betrays his god, he will also loose his fetch, and that the fetch's personality, if fetches have such, would be more closer to that of the god in question. 2, That POW and INT aint a REAL fetch at all. It is a spirit sent from the shaman's god to help her, in the same way that a real fetch does. The same distinctions as above apply - but I would also like to make the fetch more akin to an "allied spirit", ie it starts more powerful than a real fetch, but cannot get as powerful. -Cyberdwarves and dwarves without a personality: I do not like the idea of Mostali being purely mechanical beings, even if I agree that they are much less individualistic than, say, humans - if I used T&P I would certainly think that a beginning dwarf would start at about 18-20 in the relevant attributes to their caste - all except Irondwarves would be very Cowardly, while Irondwarves would be very Brave. They are made that way, unless the Quicksilver dwarf tending the incubator slips - or, horrible thought, is a heretic and by purpose modifies all his dwarf-modules to be individualistic, or what ever his heresy would be. This is my version of the Mostali Vessel: All dwarves are imperfect versions of the "real" Mostali, those beings created by Mostal himself, of whic the dwarves are merely clay (organic) copies ("the Clay Mostali"). They all strive to come closer to their originals, however. That is part of their work rebuilding the Machine. All dwarves BEGIN with a Vessel, with a prescense of 1D3, just like a "newbaked" Malkioni Wizard. Just like a human, they can sacrifice POW to the Vessel. However, this is usually a slow process. See it like this: Mostali society is totally concentrated on rebuilding the World Machine, of restoring the world to pre-Time perfection. What is this if not heroquesting and reality-changing on the Gbaji/Godlearner/Lunar level - with the difference that the dwarves are CHANGING BACK the world, and that they work slowly and carefully as to not do the same kind of mistakes as foolish humans have done in similar situations. So the dwarves work to change the world, how? Well, we all know about the ceremonies of human cultures at sacred time and other important dates. The dwarves have similar ceremonies going at the same time, but to humans they do not look like ceremonies. Do you think allthose dwarven machines have any mundane purpose? If studied by a human engineer, he would find that most of those machines do NOTHING. Wheels turn, coal burns, levers pump, but they have no purpose other than ceremonially representing functions of the World Machine. In some cases this would be obvious - the machine shows the stars and planets moving, for instance. Such machines are tended by skilled dwarves - not necessarily Diamonddwarves just very skilled ones. And there are equivalents in other dwarven sciences than that of mechanics. The Rock Dwarves dig labyrinths of tunnels leading nowhere when concerned with normal space, forming sacred geomethric shapes, some of them non-euclidean. The Quicksilver Dwarves in their laboratories create chemical compounds that ARE NOT POSSIBLE, according to the laws (?) of Glorantha, but existed before Time. And so on. All these projects are taken care of by skilled dwarves. Skilled dwarves are those who has served as mundane workers - digging for ore, making food, forging tools and weapons, etc. - for some hundred years, and mastered the necessary skills. The projects are planned and administrated by Diamonddwarves. While working at these projects, dwarves slowly increase their Vessel. At the same time, they loose their "softness" and become more "metallic", ie non-human from our point of view. This happens at a different rate for different dwarves, and game mechanics for it seems unnecessary, but the rulelawyer in me suggests loosing 1 POW and increasing Vessel with one each 10-20 years - Silver dwarves should loose theirs quickly, Rock and Lead Dwarves slowly. Individualists actually have higher Vessel than other dwarves (remember how the founder of this heresy "was so pious that his bones turned to stone (the Prosopaedia)". They still want to rebuild the Machine, but have own ideas how to do it and are often much more enthusiastic about it. Thus, they loose more of their POW and gain more Vessel. One way they do this is working in their spare time with Private Projects, sometimes already as mundane workers. However, at the same time they tend to exercise their POW more, so the difference is not as big as one may think. Dwarves putting vaccuum tubes into their heads...? Hmmm, there is already a certain amount of "cybernethics" among the Mostali - the Tin dwarves (I think) are among other things responsible for creating replacement limbs for dwarves who have lost theirs due to accidents. Since they are also responsible for the creation of dwarven "androids" (Jolanti etc), you can get funny ideas of this..... I was thinking about saying something about solace and vampires as well but suddenly notices that I have a real life as well, so I'll be back again... Erik