From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 28 Oct 1994, part 1 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. X-RQ-ID: index 6757: watson = (Colin Watson) - Re: Spirit bindings 6758: sandyp = (Sandy Petersen) - Re: Bolongo 6759: ddunham = (David Dunham) - bound spirits 6760: 100270.337 = (Nick Brooke) - General round-up 6761: jake = (Jake Meredith) - Command, Control, & Chaos Cults 6762: ANDERSJC = ANDERSJC@howdy.Princeton.EDU - Players wanted, Central NJ 6763: vladt = (Kevin Rose) - Familiars/Allies and Esrolia & rebelions --------------------- From: watson@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson) Subject: Re: Spirit bindings Message-ID: <199410271529.PAA28878@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk> Date: 27 Oct 94 15:29:19 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6757 _______________________ T.J.Minas X-RQ-ID: 6749 > IMO, a binding with 2 pts of POW spent on creating it is not just a "Bind > Magic spirit" binding, but could also hold (say) an Intellect spirit, or > Ghost. > The binding is enchanted to hold a spirit with INT and POW, and so, unless it > has any user conditions on it, could hold any such spirit. Likewise, a binding > for an elemental could hold any of them. I'm willing to go along with the idea that a Ghost is just a Magic Spirit with attitude; after all, I consider both to be spirits of people. However I think there is a more fundamental difference between other spirit types (especially elementals) which means they shouldn't share a generic binding enchantment. Spirits are defined by more than just their stats. The magic which binds them has to take into account other factors, such as their runic associations etc. A salamander is not just a fiery sylph - its a fundamentally different thing altogether. You shouldn't be able to bind it in the same way just cos it has the same stats. If I was inclined to relax the rules for binding I'd allow Magic Spirits, Ghosts and even Wraiths to be bound in the same way because they are all basically Man-spirits. I generally consider Intellect spirits to be the ghosts of animals (really just cos it fits their typically low INT); and Power spirits to be the ghosts of plants (which lack INT). > The subject of user conditions brings up another point. The enchantment MUST > therefore (IMO) possess a kind of "pseudo-intelligence" to determine whether > or not the user meets the conditions. Here's my take: Everything in the world has runic associations. Most things (except the purest elemental sources and such) have a *blend* of several runic associations eg. Hewie the Troll would be primarily associated with Man & Darkness but he is likely to have weak associations with many other runes which describe exactly who he is. (Think of it as being analogous to a genetic fingerprint, except that it can apply to anything and everything, not just living things. It might also be known as the TrueName.) So, when a device is enchanted with conditions it is attuned to the runic aura of the users who are allowed to activate it. (Or detuned away from those who are restricted). The exactness of the match required determines the stringency of the conditions. Gamewise, this process is all abstracted in the rules under the broad heading of Ritual Enchantments. ___ CW. --------------------- From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham) Subject: bound spirits Message-ID: <199410271617.AA12655@radiomail.net> Date: 27 Oct 94 16:17:20 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6759 BTW, here's a rule of thumb I use when people with bound spirits (or fetches*) want to use them to cast spells: A spirit needs its own pair of eyes to be able to perceive the world. If you have a Dispel Magic spirit bound into a torc, the torc's wearer can command it to dispel a spell on himself, but not on anyone else, since the spirit has no way of perceiving anyone else. Allied spirits can use the rune master's senses, so even if an allied spirit is in a sword, it can cast ranged spells. * What exactly a fetch is I'll leave for another message: is it (in a practical sense) part of the shaman, a separate spirit, or what? --------------------- From: jake@spy.org (Jake Meredith) Subject: Command, Control, & Chaos Cults Message-ID:Date: 27 Oct 94 08:40:53 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6761 Since the thread on spirit magic Control spell seems to have moved on to divine Command , I thought I should bring up the problems that I have had with Control in game play, and add a bit to the discussion on Command. My main problem with Control is that it is HORRIBLY weak compared to other magic systems mastery spells. This is because it can only be used by a discorporate shaman (assuming that the spirit does not initaite combat w/the shaman). While this is not bad while the shaman cruises the spirit plane, it means that it a fire elemental (oakfed?) ravages the tribe it takes minimum 1 hour to defeat it using Control Salamander. Plus the shaman is deprived of his geatest asset in spirit combat, his fetch. Add to this the fact that you need to be a shaman to even use the spell (in most cases) and you see that shamans definetly get the short end of the stick in mastering things. On the rune magic side, priests have *three* spells of mastery: Command , Spellteaching, and Command Spirit. Command is for things that aren't affiliated with the cult, but which the god has mastery over (not all Disease spirits are Malians). Spellteaching is to control cult spell spirits, who are probably immune to other spells (to prevent Joe Shaman from getting Sneeze and Sleep). Command Spirit, IMO, is the only spell which can control specialty cult spirits (like the spirit of reprisal ;>) and more ordinary spirits which just happen to belong to the cult (Malian disease spirits). On a completly different topic does anybody know where I can find writeups for Vivamort, Ompalam, any other chaos gods (excluding those in Elder Secrets, GoG, Dorastor, and the one that has Thanatar). I have no RQII stuff :( so please don't refer me to pg 1-100 of CoT. Thanks in advance. The description of the vampire in SC or RoC seems to indicate that vamps can steal rune magic. Q. What happens when a vampire gets Earthpower from an Ernaldan Priestess? Also Lunar cult writeups would be appreciated. I have been playing the 7M as 6 people who preformed so many LB HeroQuests (restoring the Red Moon instead of Yelm) that they became God Time figures very similar to the LB's, and the seventh 7M being the mortal who actually gave birth to the Red Moon (the godess not the rock =)) and was also deified. *---------------*------------------------------------------------* | Jake Meredith | All day and night I hunger for truth, | | jake@spy.org | but in the morning I hunger for breakfast. | *---------------*------------------------------------------------* --------------------- From: ANDERSJC@howdy.Princeton.EDU Subject: Players wanted, Central NJ Message-ID: <1A22A306CE1@howdy.princeton.edu> Date: 27 Oct 94 21:05:33 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6762 A small (3-6) gaming group in central New Jersey is looking for new players interested in a Runequest campaign that is very role-playing intensive (about half combat, half role-playing). The campaign is presently based in Sartar (no Lunars need apply) :) :) Please reply to andersjc@howdy.princeton.edu Janet Anderson --------------------- From: vladt@interaccess.com (Kevin Rose) Subject: Familiars/Allies and Esrolia & rebelions Message-ID: Date: 27 Oct 94 19:34:05 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6763 Familiars and Allies (various people) Greg wrote a couple of paragraphs talking about awakened versus possesed animals. (Part of the Rune Fix 1 in DW 22. Sandy P mentioned once the RUNEFIX articles were more or less ideas/suggestions, versus solid rules.) One comment was that possessed animals are always detected by normal and awakend animals as possesed, with the animals responding by resenting the creature that has slain one of their kind and stolen his body. Resentment can take the form of outright attacks or simple ignoring it. Awakend animals are normal animals that have been given normal INT. They are not detectable as diferent by other critters. They are awakned by arangment with the animal god. So Humakt, who has some sort of connections to the wolf and raven gods, can awaken wolves and ravens. This was available for really special initiates. This article is from 1982, when you had to destroy the spirit to possesse it. No idea what the current thinking is, but it still seems fairly resonable to me. Sandy: Military rebelions and leaders (6725) All mutinies need a leader, but they are somtimes low ranking. For example, Sergeant Doe in an African contry that I cannot remember led a sucessful (and fairly messy) overthrow of the goverment. I think their was a LT Rawlings who overthrew another third world goverment 10-15 years ago. Most often it is the field grade officers leading these things, but not always. So keeping all the troops male and all the officers as female would probably work. (Look at the Russian army as an example of an army where the troops are treated like dirt. Large scale rebelions haven't happened.) But the junior leaders (the ones who are at the sharp end) had better be really big strong girls, or they will have real problems when they have to go head to head with the assorted barbarions around them. And you are succeding at the plan to be the primary cause of lost productivity. --------------------- From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) Subject: Re: Bolongo Message-ID: <9410271646.AA06161@idcube.idsoftware.com> Date: 27 Oct 94 02:47:30 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6758 Lewis: >This brings me onto the subject of different stats (and emotions) >being associated with different organs. When I wrote up the Cannibal Cult, I assigned stats to the different organs of the body, as follows: STR: heart CON: bowels SIZ: bones INT: brain (yes, I admit it) POW: liver DEX: hands APP: skin Depending on the part of your enemy you ate, the benefit you received would differ. Simon Hibbs: >As I understand it, the Kyger Litor cult is ancestor worship(*). KL >is the mother of the troll race after all. Therefore shared ancestry >is what the cult is all about. Coincidentaly enough, that is what >Clan membership is all about too! Of course, the two are one and the >same. Concur. For some years now, I have felt that one of the major flaws of the descriptions of troll culture ere now has been the failure to explicitly state that trolls see no distinction between politics, kinship, and religion. The same person is likely to be the family matriarch, the high priestess of Kyger Litor, AND the tribe's queen. In the same way, a trollkin is (A) not considered a family member, (B) is not permitted within the cult, and (C) has no rights or privileges. >Of course, most religions are realy ancestor worship. This seems a peculiar non-sequitur. If this is supposed to refer to real-world religions, I'm puzzled by its manifest falsity (Islam, Buddism, Daoism, Christianity). If it's with respect to Gloranthan religion, it seems no more true. While certain religions may have evolved _from_ ancestor worship, this doesn't make them ancestor worship. Peter Michaels: >You've tantalized me with your description of BOLONGO. >Did the God Learners see Bolongo at the Trickster level (and thus >"Eurmal") or at the Aspect level (as the Mask)? What sort of magic >do Bolongo shrines provide? The God Learners equated him with Eurmal. Bolongo people can get trickster magic from any of the many trickster shrines dotted around Pamaltela (mostly devoted to a specific entity -- Jackal, Mad Otter, Tohar Son-Of-Tohar, etc.). But shrines specifically dedicated to Bolongo do not actually provide any magic. They are intended for other functions; mostly secret. A Bolongo worshiper is outside normal law (like a Eurmal in Orlanthi society). But unlike Eurmal, he is also not subject to reprisals, and can thus do whatever he likes, within certain limits. However, when a group feels that things are not going well, for whatever reason, they can call forth the Bolongo man, feast him, dress him for the occasion (long colorful strips of cloth are common, one for each tribe member, along with a carved-gourd mask), beat the living hell out of him, and cast him out of the tribe or the oasis. The Bolongo man is expected never to come back to that tribe or oasis ever. In this way, he takes away the group's "bad luck", its sins, or what-have-you. He can never come back to that tribe again. Should he do so, all the bad luck and sins he has on his head from that tribe suddenly become enacted -- on _him_! Some tribes believe that the sins, after passing through such a recidivist Bolongo man, return to the tribe, and so execute such a returnee, if the accumulated bad karma has not already done so. After acting as such a scapegoat several times, the weight of the crimes begins to add up, and some of the evil tends to leak out the cracks. While I've termed such an individual a Bolongo "man", an actual worshiper can be of any sex. However, regardless of sex, they are called a Bolongo Man when called upon for rituals. A female Bolongo Man is considered somewhat more perverse but possibly less sinister than a male one. If Eurmal = Hermes, then Bolongo = Pan. THE WOMAN WHO PRETENDED TO BE BOLONGO CULTURAL NOTE: when a man marries, he moves in with his wife, leaving his family behind. Also, a sizable number of the gifts brought to impress the lad would actually be intended, not for him, but for his grandmother, to please _her_. There was an old woman who loved her grandson too much. Maidens came from all over to woo the handsome lad. "Marry me!" each said. "I love you both afar and up close. If you wed me I will treat you with kindness, and feed you on honeycakes every day." All the maidens brought treats they had cooked, and articles of fine clothing they (or their mothers) had woven. The lad liked the attention, and his grandmother liked the sweetmeats and finery. One day the boy fell in love with an especially beautiful girl. "I wish to marry this girl," said the lad to his grandmother. "She is the one for me." The old lady said, "But what if she snores, or is ugly in the morning? You should know this first. Ask her to spend one night with you in the tent. She can sleep in the front part of the tent, and you can sleep in the back part. That way, you will know her better." The lad agreed, and so it was arranged. The old lady ran to the Witch and cried, "Witch! Witch! Give me the magic I need. Give me the mask of Bolongo." So the Witch gave her the mask of Bolongo. That night, after the girl and her grandson were sound asleep, the old lady put on the mask. Then she plugged her grandson's ears with clay and snuck over to the young girl. "Roah!" she cried. When the girl awoke, there kneeling over her was Bolongo, claws agape, tongue hanging out from the heat, horns akimbo. The girl screamed and ran away, never to return to that tent of terror. In the morning, the boy asked, "Where did my fiancee go?" The old woman said, "She decided she did not like you any more. Good riddance." The boy cried for a while, then was happy. After a while, the old woman decided she did not need such elaborate preparations. Instead, she simply wore a veil, and always kept on the Bolongo mask. When a girl came to court her grandson, after she brought the gifts, the old woman would send her grandson out for water, then suddenly lift her veil, and shriek, "Roah!" The girls ran away and never came back. Her grandson would be hers forever. The two traveled from oasis to oasis, from tribe to tribe, when the old woman has run out of girls to frighten. One day, the boy asked, "Grandmother, why do you always wear a veil?" And the old lady said, "Because I wear a mask underneath. I do not wish to frighten you." "Take off the mask, Grandmother, I want to see and kiss you again." The old woman tried and pried, "Alas. I cannot take off the mask my grandson. I have worn it too long." Now the boy was getting frightened. "I will get help, mother." He ran and got the Witch, the chief, and all the Council. "Help me! Help me!" All sat around the old woman. They all pulled and pulled at the mask, but it would not come off. Then, finally, the chief said, "Old woman, why do you wear that mask?" The old woman wept. She said, "I wore the mask to frighten off girls that wished to marry my grandson. I loved him too much." When she said that, suddenly the mask loosened all around the edges. "The mask has come loose!" she said. "It is because of the Truth." thought all the people. "She must have been living a falsity for a long time." "Take off the mask, Grandmother," begged her grandson. "I still love you anyway." The old woman pulled at the mask. And it came off. But then it fell to the ground with a clank! Behind it was nothing. The old woman was gone. Her fine clothes settled to the ground in an empty heap. There was only the mask left behind. Nick Brooke: >Apparently, Pole Star is only at the dead centre of the Sky at >Midsummer As I recall, even in midsummer, Pole Star is not dead center, but is always a little bit south. David Cake: >Sikkanos is a sort >of loyal pantheon member - but they live apart >and raid. Their >degree of tribal loyalty just makes them even more >of an external threat, as you get raided by the outcasts of a >different tribe, rather than the outcasts of your own. Actually, you don't. What happens instead is that anyone visiting the tribal area, but who has not yet linked up with the tribe, gets raided. A chieftain's "bargain with Sikkanos" is supposed to be good for all Sikkanos outlaws, not just "your own". I apologize if that wasn't made clear. >What I want is cults that take some of the part that religions like >Krarsht or Seseine, or even Nysalor, plays in Genertelan society, >though less extreme - the evil religion used by people who appear as >good members of society but who really have wickedness in their >hearts. Seseine is much more common in Pamaltela than Genertela, so I suppose it would be a good source of such baddies. In general, the Doraddi don't think of bad people as necessarily worshiping a bad cult. Just as most modern Europeans don't think of bad guys as always being Satanists or Mafiosa, the Doraddi are quite comfortable with bad guys who worship Pamalt. A Seseine cultist, for instance, wouldn't really be considered a worshiper of an evil sect, but more like a drug fiend: possibly dangerous and driven to do bad things by his need. The Seseine worship is a symptom of the man's evil, not the cause of it. >warriors, which to the DOraddi often implies a degree of >irresponsibility and unpredicatability. An insightful remark. Joerg B.: >The difference between a raiding band of elves and one of tusk >riders (represented with 5 counters in DP) escapes me. The Tusk Riders openly boast of their prowess as mercenaries, are organized into mobile bands, and actively seek hire. They try as hard as they can to be little square counters on the DP map. Elves are completely and utterly different. >Anyway, there are several occasions on which elves fielded an army: You've managed to gather, out of all Gloranthan lore, six (6) cases in which it's possible that the elves had a real field force. At least two of these are suspect: when Gore and Gash fight their "army of elves, it's pretty obvious to me that this "army" is a forest. It sits and "waits" for help, and when the two sides fight, it's not a real battle, but instead a range of mountains is thrown up against the trolls. Also, the Unity Battle is an unusual godtime event which is always singled out as remarkable. Even there did the elves field an army? The battle may have taken place within a forest, with the elves helping the dwarfs and trolls. Your other references are all obscure as to what was going on, and in addition are all times when elves were clearly working with someone else. I don't think that in any of these cases they were sending out large organized forces into battle. Obviously elves can be effective in combat. A real large elf woods might even be able to produce an actual field unit (like the Moonbow legion, which was partially human). But this is so rare that providing elf counters for the Stinking Forest (for instance) is a big mistake. If we were doing a DP-style game for Fronela, I'd probably provide a few counters for the Winterwoods, since that's such an enormous population of elves that I can imagine some unit-equivalents being mustered. But the Stinking Forest? Get real. >Trolls and forests can live merrily together, as the Troll Woods in >the Holy Country prove. Yes I know. I told you about Dagori Inkarth's barrenness thinking that you would find it a useful bit of information. I don't see what it has to do with the Troll Woods.