Re: HW as a concept, and _Adding_ abilities, wealth and wells

From: Julian Lord <julian.lord_at_...>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:57:19 +0200

Garreth (?) :

> > the "Hrm, now what do I do?" type of moment: "What the heck should
> > I use as a TN for buying _that_?" "What the heck amount of game
> world
> > wealth does _that_ rating really correspond to?" etc, etc. Any
> > "official" rules based on a Julian-like system would, I trust, make
> > that understanding explicit...
> What I'm trying to get across here is that I think trying to do this
> is pointless.

I beg to differ. It's completely pointless in dramatic circumstances, but very useful in boring ones when one wants to be rid of base lucre issues ASAP.

> I suspect that a Lunar character of wealth 5w and a
> Herotling character of wealth 5w would NOT have the same wealth in
> any objective sense - only in a socially subjective sense.

So what ?

It's a narrative game, and we hardly need to build a completely accurate system of economics, universally valid for all Gloranthan cultures. Especially given the fact that no such holistic system has ever been successfully devised for the RW !

> The lunar
> characters wealth is likely to be composed of many manufactured,
> metal goods while the heortling character's will feature a much
> greater proportion of agricultural produce.

So what ? All we need is a set of intuitively acceptable TNs

Not the Gloranthan World Bank.

> Likewise, a "rich"
> heortling with many cows may be a pauper in lunar terms, for he has
> no mansion.

Hopefully, the cultural books will contain sensible explanations of local relative wealth values.

Alex :

> I amn't in the least bothered about the cross-cultural stuff. Give
> me guidelines that would work for _just one culture_, and I'd be a
> happy man.


Garreth (?) :

> Let me put it to you this way: our society does not recognise the
> capacity to buy stuff is social authority. But that is what it is;
> the capacity to command the market, which is by definition the
> productive behaviour of society.

That's how HW:RiG describes Wealth, anyways...

> > And if, for some mad reason, I want to relate this "character
> transaction"
> > _in any way at all_ to the rest of the game world? I'm stuffed,
> > right?
> You're stuffed trying to find a mechanically predictable way to do
> it. You have to fall back on contextual judgement.

But the context of the game world is mechanically predictable ; ideally, at least ; and CERTAINLY in the case of Wealth.

> > I amn't in the least bothered about the cross-cultural stuff. Give
> > me guidelines that would work for _just one culture_, and I'd be a
> > happy man.
> Thats what the TN list in HW is.

<cough> <cough> <CHOKE!> Bwaaah-Ha-Ha Haaa !!!

No, sorry : I think that Alex meant guidelines that * work * .

Alex :

> > Not really. The "In Glorantha" question is "How many Cows do I get
> > of I add 10 to 16". The "What's my Wealth" is a "platonic world"
> > construct.
> My point is that it's only "a platonic world construct" if it insists
> on being utterly _unrelated_ to the game-world question.

If this were the GD, I'd jump in at this point and declare that "platonic constructs", if such existed, would be _eminently_ related to game-world questions, but it isn't, so I'll shut up. :-)

Here's my latest table BTW, especially for Jeff's pleasure :

 Wealth : Money (Annual income)

 1      :          1 L (1 bushel of barley)
 2      :          2 L
 3      :          3 L (1 ewe)
 4      :          4 L (1 hog)
 5      :          5 L
10      :         10 L
15      :          1 W (1 cow) (Common standard of living = what a normal
                                person earns in a year ; therefore, profit)
18      :         15 L (1 trained ox)
20      :          2 W
 5W     :          4 W (1 horse) (Prosperous standard of living)
10W     :          8 W
12W     :         10 W (Cottar wergeld : 10 cattle)
15W     :         15 W (Rich standard of living)
18W     :         25 W (Carl wergeld : 10 cattle)
20W     :         30 W
 3W2    :         50 W (Thane wergeld : 50 cattle)
 5W2    :         60 W
 8W2    :        100 W (Noble wergeld : 100 cattle)
10W2    :        125 W (ability to purchase 1 chainmail byrnie with "pocket
                        money") (Very Rich standard of living)
13W2    :        200 W (Tribal king wergeld : 200 cattle)
15W2    :        250 W
20W2    :        500 W (Overking wergeld : 500 cattle)
 5W3    :      1.000 W
10W3    :      2.000 W (High king wergeld : 2000 cattle) (Sumptuous standard of
15W3    :      4.000 W
20W3    :      7.500 W
 5W4    :     15.000 W
10W4    :     30.000 W
15W4    :     60.000 W (Red Emperor's personal piggy bank)
20W4    :    125.000 W
 5W5    :    250.000 W
10W5    :    500.000 W
15W5    :  1.000.000 W
20W5    :  2.000.000 W

 5W6 : 4.000.000 W (Total number of gold coins in the Inner World) 10W6 : 8.000.000 W (Total amount of all money in the Inner World)

Hiring a mercenary for a year should cost about 200L (5L/week), or a Resistance of 12W (Resistance 5 for a week, Resistance 15 for a month). Hiring a great Humakti warrior or other magician for a year should cost 1000L (25L/week), or a Resistance of 3W2.

Hiring 100 mercenaries with a Humakti captain for three weeks should cost 1.500 Lunars or thereabouts, Resistance 7W2.

Other prices can be derived from RQ (RQ2 BTW, not RQ3).

Obviously, small cogs are not worth 2.000 W, stone castles can be built for less than 60.000 W, the cost of a single private room with a lockable door isn't 8 W / night.


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