Re: veneration

From: Tim Ellis <tim_at_...>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:28:21 -0000

> Specifically, the things I think but would like confirmed are:

This is all based on nothing more reliable than my memory...
>
> Venerators, the broad mass, do not have magical powers

True

> but bestow
> their power on priests through the community aprticiaption chart in
> HW.

I'm not sure the participation chart actually has anything to do with it. The "Broad Mass" are served by Liturgists, who have access to the blessings in the appropriate grimoires but typically do not learn "extra" spells (try searching the archives for "Liturgist")

> This is distinct from theism in that veneration does not
> incorporate sacrifice.
>

Also true  

> Saints are like gods but not(?). They are venerated? but certain
> devotees (?) can gain powers from these saints (via the IG,
> right?)

THis sounds about right, but I don't think we've had a proper look at Saints yet in HW. The best example pre-HW I know of are Sandy Petersons Sorcery Rules - I think they are posted on the web somewhere (?)
> Are these properly devotees, and is their worship veneration or
> sacrifice?
>

It should be veneration, under the HW definitions. In hte absence of any "Official" rules, I don't suppose treating them as Hero Cults would be too far off the mark...

> Does this imply that saints are not as exclusive as theistic gods,
> and that one devotee may address more thqn one saint?
>

Again as with Hero Cults I think. A worshipper may pray to a saint for their particular blessing -very few people will be "Devotee's" of a saint, and those that are will probably only follow one (think of it as a "patron saint" perhaps)

> Do saints have the breadth of power that theistic gods do (number
> of affinities, feats)? Do saints act as exemplary models or
> actually bestow power?

Again, Hero Cults seem to be the closest "Theistic" Equivalent

>Where does this power originate? From the mass of
> venerators?
>

Pass

> If you (erroneously) venerated an animist spirit, would you use the
> misapplied worship rules?

This would appear to be the intent of the rules, yes

>Would you then treat the spirit as spirit
> or saint, mechanically?
>

As I think I understand it, you would treat it as a saint (or other sorcerous power) because that is how you "expect" to interact with such things

> What would do to model ancestor veneration?
>
> Any comments appreciated.

Powered by hypermail