Re: veneration

From: gamartin_at_...
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:13:05 -0000

> One could certainly argue that shinto isn't very much like HW
> "animism", in which the core practices seem to necessarily be
> ecstatic. And nor is it anything much like (Heortling-style)

Sure. According to my reading, Shinto emerges from an ecstatic animist tradition, but is steadily formalised into a full blown heirachical religion sanctifying the state as the earthly reflection of the heavenly order. Groups start with a local god who embodies the tribal spirit, but these are eventually adopted as a "client" of Ameterasu Omikami, the sun goddess and founder of the Japanese Imperial dynasty/ideology.

So you end up with several forms of religious practice, which is all to the good. You have direct peasant veneration of kami at local shrines, "shrine shinto", combined with a "statist" shinto which has the emperor as head of the state church and embodiment of divine authority. You ALSO have these shugenja practicing old style ecstatic shugendo. So there are quite a few forms to exploit.

It gets weirder when buddhism and confucianism get taken into account - apparently kami, being of the world, are just as capable of delusion as mortals, so frex buddhists would go to kami shrines and lecture them on proper behaviour and enlightenment!

> I'd suggest that to an extent, one should throw out some of this
> bathwater, and choose the _mechanic_ that seems to give you the
> best description of the practice concerned. i.e., whichever one
> "feels" best...

Yes, although I'd like to keep as much in the HW ballpark as possible. No Kralorela books out yet.... But I'm also prepared to play pretty fast and loose. I want to keep the HW mechanic, but not necessarily every aspect of its implementation, so its worth exploring what the present implementation is aimed at.

> I think that'd be a viable approach. Essentially you're saying
> the laity relate to the spirits in a formalised manner, and the
> "priesthood" in an experiential one, right?

Essentially, yes, although there will be two priesthoods, the shugenja doing the ecstatic animist stuff and the shinto liturgists. The peasants are venerating kami/saints at shrines and the equivalent of the IG in the big ceremonies. The shugenja worship the same spirits through their ecstatic praxis.

Theoretically they could incorporate sorcery too, but this seems to lack a real ideological base as it does in Glorantha.

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