> > > Very useful thought. I am not sure if the wyter stays with the
> clan
> > > the entire way. There's rumor/discussion that if you go from a War
> > > Clan to a Peace Clan, you loose the old wyter permanently.
> >
> > I'd think that if you don't, you'd at the very least lose most of
> > its powers. ('The godar have spoken to the ancestors... and the
> > ancestors have said... "Go shag yersel's".') Which in itself might
> > be occassion to sack the wyter, and start again from scratch...
>
> It _may_ be that a clan might have a traditional entity they draw upon
> when they go from peace to war (or vice versa) and they gain the
> powers of that entity. However, it would be weaker as its not a usual
> wyter or critter.
Do you mean a "backup wyter" of some sort? Or do you mean a new wyter per se?
I'm not wild about the former. I think either you have to "talk along" the existing wyter (HQing for new wyter powers, etc, to replace the numerous ones you just broke), or start all over again, with a different, initially doubtless very weak ("Sorry. I'm new here.") but in principle perfect valid "new wyter".
> > Even if you overturn one clan tradition, it doesn't mean you
> overturn
> > them all, though. e.g., we might be a Peace clan now, but we
> _still_
>
> Yes, that's true. Many of the traditions are a part of the Ancestors
> rather than the wyter. I think that they'd still have to be observed
> but the traditional powers that the clan uses to _deal_ with those
> enemies may be lacking.
I don't necessarily agree. It may be a matter of how offended/ magically disfunctional the wyter has been rendered by the clan's "strange new customs".
> > had dragons, are suspicious of Sartar's line, are friendly to the
> > Kitori, etc, so powers, as well as mundane customs, relating to
> those
> > may be retained in the "old" wyter (or indeed remade in the "new"
> one).
>
> The problem with a new wyter is that it creates a new community. The
> wyter and the community are one and the same (at least, it seems to be
> extremely interdependent)
Good point. You might need to effectively "Refound" the clan to do this, which is clearly not a step to be taken lightly.
> > Basically, I'd take the attitude that while the wyter might have the
> > odd 'quirk' which might be related to the 'entity' that formed the
> > basis of it (whether than be a founder, or some local daimon), it
> > is in essense the traditions, values, and general prejudices and
> > customs of the clan, made manifest, and one way or another, it'll
> > come to reflect those, as they evolve (or equally, ensure that they
> > _don't_ evolve, much).
>
> Perhaps. But I'd think that this might encourage a plug-and-play
> attitude to wyter. Changing a wyter is supposedly an extreme act, or
> so I was told.
Well, my main point is that the two are the same -- which changes to accomodate which, and which does so the more easily, is another matter... Certainly "wyter inertia" is a strong, and very often compelling reason to "do as we've always done", but occassionally that's not what happens. At the end of the day, you'll end up with a wyter (however weak) that "agrees" with your clan's views and magical attitudes, one way or another.
> It might be that you would go on quest to get powers
> for the wyter to fulfil the community's new needs.
Just so.
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