Re: Re: Magical Augments - A little extreme?

From: Roderick and Ellen Robertson <rjremr_at_...>
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:13:04 -0700


> >Like three Roman legions getting slaughtered by a bunch of near-naked,
> >undisciplined Germans in the Tuetoburgerwald. Like JFK getting killed by
a
> >disgruntled wannabe. Like two airplanes slamming into the World Trade
> >Center.
>
> No.
> All of these took more than a few minutes, for a start.
> Comparing elaborate plots that take months with 5 minutes worth of

All of them took preparation against an un-suspecting enemy. Whether it took 5 minutes or 5 months, the end result was a tremendous advantage on the part of the ambusher. If you want a 5-minute preparation ambush, then almost any convenience store robbery or street mugging would qualify.

> augmenting - who was it you were accusing of hyperbole?

Nick Brooke. :-)

> Also, where any of these people multiply using their
> affinities? And thats not as silly as trivial an issue as it appears.
> We are not talking about the overall effect of well prepared ambush
> in general - we are talking about the specific effect of multiple
> augments from an affinity in ambush. Confusing the two is pointless.

Whether one uses closely-related skills or non-related skills, the end result is the same. Is "Obtain fake ID", "Learn to fly big honkin' plane", and "Hate so bad you're willing to die" all part of the "Terrorist" affinity? I could certainly make a case for learning them as feats inside the affinity, then using them in concert to steal a plane (yes, I know that they are really non-magical skills, but we don't have affinities in the real world).

> >We *are* talking about someone who knows what's coming (or is planning on
> >making it happen), vrs. someone who doesn't have a clue. Ambushes
*should*
> >be deadly, and are a great way to overcome a discrepency in power. Anyone
> >caught "cold" by an ambush (whether it is physical combat, or a law case,
or
> >someone stealing your girl) should have a much harder time winning than
the
> >ambusher.
>
> In HW, +5 or so is 'a much harder time'. +10 is crippling. +w
> is devastating.
> Now, do I think someone who sets an ambush should get a
> decent bonus. +5 to +10 is about right for most cases. I don't think
> this should be much huger if the ambusher happens to be a devotee.

I assume, then, that you oppose the "Home tula advantage" rule in BA 54, that gives a average +18 on automatic (not rolled-for) augments. That's before *any* personal magical augments are included.

> >I'd have a hard time believing that all my efforts to prepare were
> >for naught, because "it doesn't feel right" that an ambusher can beat his
> >victim. That's the whole reason for ambushes!
>
> No, it doesn't feel right that the important element in an
> ambush is that it gives you the opportunity to multiply augment.

But it doesn't, not any more than any other contest.

Let me ask this: Would you disallow a second augment from the same affinity if it were rolled in the middle of combat? Frex: Harry the Hu-the-Sword devotee starts a contest using "Close Combat". He uses his first action to roll for an augment using "Cut Deep". The several rounds later he rolls for an augment using "Great Blow". They are both in his "Sword Combat" affinity.

> The ambush should be effective because its an ambush,
> regardless of whether you are a devotee.

Being a devotee simply makes it more successful. A "Home Tula Advantage" ambush starts at +18. Getting a single +2 augment will put that into your "devastating" category. Anyone (Initiate or Devotee) with any sort of Hide, Combat, Hunting or any of several other affinities should be able to get that.

> Put it this way - if it feels right that a well prepared
> ambush should be devastating, then it should be devastating when
> carried out by someone with no affinities at all. Which means that
> multiple augments from affinities is not the effect you are looking
> for.

Augments make it more likely to succeed fully. Whether they all come from the same affinity or from different ones, what's the difference? Some activities simply don't make sense unless multiple augments are allowed from the same affinity - Pella's Pottery affinity and Lhankor Knowing's Law Affinity come to mind, since I used them earlier.

RR

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