Re: Re: Last actions as played

From: Roderick and Ellen Robertson <rjremr_at_...>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:18:58 -0700


> > You need time and effort to perform the final action, and if some-
> > one is making sure to keep an eye on you, then you won't have the
> > opportunity. War movies often have the scene where the bad guys are
> > wiped out by grenades/submachinegun fire ... Had the soldiers taken
> > the precaution of administering the coup de grace (a bullet to the
> > head for everyone), or policed up the room immediately, the "dead"
> > guy wouldn't have had a chance.
>
> "Hero Wars" is *not* IMO a game about painstakingly executing fallen
> enemies (or taking care of any other minor details) for fear the
> Narrator will spring a "Final Action" surprise on you if you don't. See
> HW p.149 -- "Killing Helpless Opponents - An Argument Against."

See P. 149 - "Killing Helpless Opponents - An Argument For"

Different groups have different wishes. Some people like a defeated enemy to stay down without looking after him, others like the unexpected reappearance of a "defeated enemy" if they ignore him. Both views are equally valid, both are supported by genre conventions (wherever you get those conventions - movies, novels, epic poetry, whatever).

If you don't like NPCs to use FA (which is what this message indicates to me), the narrator is free to let them stay down. All players (narrators included) have ideas about what they like in a game - what makes it fun. Your personal idea of game fun doesn't seem to include "defeated" enemies coming "back to life" on you. Fine, that's a valid point of view. On the other hand, other people might like the surprise of a defeated enemy doing something nasty (whether its pushing the button, dropping a grenade, or falling off the cliff to avoid capture).

> "Hero Wars" is *not* IMO a game where it should ever be a *problem* that
> "the winning side is lax in their security precautions." Worrying about
> "security precautions" seems to me to be the kind of thing no
> self-respecting hero would ever give a moment's thought to!

Yet lax security precautions appear as a genre convention. It usually occurs *once*, then the heroes wise up (after dealing harshly with the perpetrator), or it's at the end of the adventure and creates a bittersweet ending with a victorious-but-dead/injured hero.

I see nothing wrong in setting up a "standard combat policy" like: "My follower, Rollo, will keep an eye on defeated enemies so they can't FA on me". Tell the Narrator once, then forget it. Of course, you can't use Rollo's AP after you defeat an enemy, but that seems to be an even trade. Now the Hero doesn't have to worry about it, because his underling is giving the moment's thought to it, which is just another use for followers (taking care of things the Hero shouldn't 'give a moment's thought to', that is - after all, a hero shouldn't have to worry about setting up camp, grooming his horse, or buying the food to feed his retainers. While these things need to be done, it's someone else's job).

> Finally, IMO it is *not* "Narratively Good" to require players to
> routinely "take the precaution of administering the coup de grace" for
> fear of being Narrated against if they don't.

When did I say it was? "Narritively Good" doesn't appear in the paragraphs about heroes executing prisoners. It appears in paragraphs about heroes doing stuff like leaping into dimensional rifts or erasing summoning circles (it does appear in a paragraph with a *villain's* action, as an example of an extreme action).

Sorry to offend you Nick.

RR

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