Re: Decimal Hero Wars

From: Julian Lord <jlord_at_...>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:26:54 +0100


Keith :  

> One consequence that is not mathematically valid, but is less
> obviously wrong because of the rounding effect is that it is easier to
> add abilities. From my "house rules":
>
> ADDING ABILITIES: (ESPECIALLY WEALTH!)
> I need a method of increasing wealth, and perhaps other ratings that
> might be the result of adding them together.
>
> Seems to me that if I decide that each level of mastery doubles
> ability rating then I get: |snip]

Actually, I was one of a group proposing something very similar, but I've since changed my mind somewhat.

The thing is that if each level of mastery does double the ability rating, then all augmentations except those by nearly equal abilities would, if HW were a simulationist game, add +1 and no more. But I'd personally say an extra +1 per wibble.

So adding 8 to 12 gives 13, 27 to 35 gives 38, etc. (or 8 to 12 gives 13, 7W to 15W gives 17W) That's for automatic augmentation. You can also roll to try and get more oomph out of it.

Special Wealth or other adding rules would I think be based on mathematical quibbling and not much more.

What I actually think about the superiority of D10 over D20 is that the quibble would boil down to "add +1, except if the two added scores are equal : then add +2" , or some other similar triviality not worthy of inclusion even as a house rule.

What I also think is that 45, 23, 9, 17, & 64 are far more intuitive than, say, 10W4, 6W2, 18, 14W, & 8W6. It's self-evident that someone with Wealth 45 is vastly richer than the guy with 17, but especially the *scale* of the difference between the two is immediately obvious. But didn't someone else already say that, or words to that effect ?

Decimal Wealth also has the advantage of being immediately transparent to anyone who has ever owned money or had a bank account, among whom many HW players I assume.

Basic numeracy : why reinvent the wheel ?


Alex :

> My scheme, though, decimalises as above, but is resolved with _D12s_.
> Any roll of 1-10 is a success or a failure -- no fumble or crit on 1
> or 10. But an 11 is "roll again and bump up", and a 12 is "roll again
> and bump down".

I remember this curiously pleasing plan.

Another way to do it would be to use those old-fashioned D20s that have two series of 1 to 0 numerals, one series to be filled in with white, the other with black : one could paint all numerals white except for one of the 0s : the white 0 would = 10 and the black one be a fumble.  


Gian :  

[Wealth augmentation rules]

> Ehi! That's an useful rule!
> BTW do you, Keith, still need HPs to "cement" the
> increase of wealth or not?

In my own version of this, yes of course.

> I use the usual notation (d20) but this wealth-adding
> suggestion is useful.
> If I Recall Correctly a mastery of advantage
> mathematically speaking means 5x (in a logarithmic
> approach).
> So you need a treasure 4 times yours to increase 20
> points of wealth (roughly, as if the logarithmic curve
> were linear): yours + 4 times yours= 5 times yours.
>
> Or a treasure 20% yours to increase 1 point of wealth.
> It means that if you (Joe Orlanthi) have wealth 15 and
> catch an hidden treasure rated as follows, you can get
> the improving (but you still need the HP expenditure,
> right?) in the fourth column:
>
> 10 -15= -5 +0
> 11 -15= -4 +1
> 12 -15= -3 +2
> 13 -15= -2 +3
> 14 -15= -1 +4
> 15 -15= 0 +5 (the treasure has the same value as
> your current wealth, so it doubles it)
> etc.

Exactly, except the numbers are slightly off.

But it's still just a mathematical quibble (see above).

> if +/-20 means *//5, then (roughly) +/-5 means *//2 !
> (*// means multiply or divide)
>
> I know, this is a deterministic approach, unsuited to
> a narrative rulesystem, but sometimes it *can* be
> useful!

The main use is in adding many things together, not so much one Wealth score or other ability to another. So if one cow is "worth" 15, how much are 27 cows "worth" ?

If one person has a Disease 2W, what's the resistance number when 83 other people have caught it too ?

Not to mention Mass Combat during the Hero Wars ...

Again, in a decimal version of the game this would become *completely* transparent.

I have HeroQuested to try and get the good people at Issaries to substitute logarithmically sensible support, number of targets, duration, range, and any other similar tables for the nonsensical ones currently in use, but all I got for it was that Wakboth bit my ear off, and scolded me, saying that this is a narrativist game and doesn't need any icky simulationism, no thank you.

Julian Lord

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