Re: [hw-rules]guns and edges

From: Roderick and Ellen Robertson <rjremr_at_...>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:28:32 -0700


Well, I hadn't weighed in before, but what the heck.

> 1. Guns should do a lot of "damage" without a whole lot of risk.
>

>There are two points:
>- when i thought about the gun problem i researched the internet a lot, and
>most scientific sources said that there is a lot of myth concerning guns
and
>how much damage they do. For instance: instant death is rare.
>So i dont agree that firearms do so much more damage than other weapons
>(depending on your gameworld of course).
>I would suggest (all "conversions"from Cthulhu Now"):

It kind of depends on what you are trying to model. In movies, a "faceless minion" hit anywhere, by anything, is down and out. The Hero, Major Villains and Henchmen can shrug off a few shots with a mere "hurt". In the real world, we have everything from the person hit in the head and not noticing it until its pointed out to them, to people taking themselves out of combat after a near (or even not-so-near) miss.

Realistic potrayals of weapons was *not* a design goal of HW/HQ!

>-if you hit, the weaponedge is only applied once (the first bullet hits for
>sure on a success, the rest is "determined" by the exchange).

But a "success" might simply mean making the opponent duck behind cover rather than a "real" hit. Most people are not cold-hearted killers, and few bullets fired in the heat of battle actually hit the person they are aimed at. There are acounts of gun fights where hundreds of rounds are exchanged,and few (sometimes no) people are killed or even injured. - As an example, the North Hollywood shootout (two bank robbers with AK 47s and body armor vrs the LAPD) resulted in two dead bank robbers (one self-inflicted, one bled out) and *no* dead cops or bystanders (47 were injured) , even though 1,100 high-power rounds - capable of going through bricks and cinderblocks - were fired by the robbers and the cops had 350 officers at the scene shooting back. A "Complete Victory" in a gun battle could as easily mean that the target ran away uninjured as that he was turned into red goo. Fewer people will stand and take gunfire than will accurately deliver it.

>From what I can tell from my reading, a fatality in a gun battle is usually
A) a fluke or B) the result of an ambush or C) both.

>The other point is, that there is the kind of false consensus that spending
a
>lot of Ap�s equals a risky action. Taking a long time aiming for example is
>an action that has no big risk in it,generally speaking, but still calls
for a
>high Ap bid I would say.

No, it's not a false concensus, but part of the HQ rules (relavent bits already available to lucky GTA people).

Aiming is probably better represented as augmenting (to better hit the target, and/or in a more vulnerable place - depending on if you are using a pistol with iron sights or a sniper rifle with the latest infrared, 100x optical zoom), rather than AP use. And taking time to aim in the middle of an Old West High-Noon Gunfight *can* be seen as a risky action, when the idea is to "clear leather" as fast as possible (of course, the aimers usually won the contest in reality, but not in the movies - that old "what are you representing" question).

My $.02 -

Don't worry about the guns overmuch. Use the edges you've got, or David's multiplier, but don't worry about rates of fire, burst vrs full auto, magazine capacity, single or double action, etc. Accuracy is easily done as a modifier applied by the gun: "The .29 Schmetzer-Mossey Air Rifle is incredibly accurate but weak: it has a +10 augment but only a +2 edge".

I'd let Hollywod be my guide - don't worry about reloading (it either happens when the camera is off the hero, or is basically instantaneous), all bullets make richochet sounds, and the important thing is a steely nerve and a sharp eye, not the kind of gun you use.

Heck, for my money the best use of the gun in Hollywood is in the Rocketeer, where all gangsters use Colt .45 automatics, and all Feds use snub-nosed revolvers (everyone except Germans use Tommyguns, of course). They don't care what the guns can actually do, but how they add to the portrayal of the characters.

RR
It is by my order and for the good of the state that the bearer of this has done what he has done.
- Richelieu

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