Re: Argument Overridden

From: Graham Robinson <graham_at_...>
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:43:26 +0000

>I've been gorlicked. The Vulcan nerve pinch of superior argument by one
>of my gamers. Now I'm thinking that it makes sense to start a new extended
>contest when the action type changes too much. The trooper still has a
>final shot to win the old swearing contest (and shame the cavalry soldier
>into letting him pass). But after that, it's a new type of combat (weapons
>rather than words) so a new extended contest makes more sense.

That is an incredibly bad idea, for a number of reasons.

  1. Why would anyone losing a contest not change tactic? That way they get to start again with a clean slate. Okay, you're talking of allowing a "final shot" but that's only one dice roll - if I'm willing to spend a hero point, chances are I'll survive that, which wouldn't be true if the contest carries on.
  2. What constitutes "changes too much"? If swearing escalates to violence is too big a change (despite the fact that this would seem a pretty natural escalation) what else would count? If I'm failing to seduce a girl with my "Cheesy Chat Up Lines" and change to throwing my money around (use "Wealth") - is that too big a change? What if I start name dropping celebrities?
  3. How do you apply consequences? Normally, long term consequences only happen after an extended contest ends. But if you don't finish the contest, what then? A big fight scene ends with one side running away, but since that's a new contest, the Uroxi heroes don't get any chance of damaging the broo they've been fighting for half an hour?
  4. (The big one to my mind.) What has "action type" got to do with a contest anyway? They're about resolving conflicting *GOALS* not *actions*. So what if someone has changed actions, if they're still pursuing the same goal, they're in the same contest. The foot and mounted soldiers are still trying to cross the bridge first - what's changed? Even if *one* side changes goals, the contest may remain the same - the classic example is going from "Kill Other"/"Kill Other" to "Kill Other"/"Run Away". A contest should only end early if one side allows the other to achieve their goal - not likely for a combat, or much else of any interest.

A little further thought on this. In the example, the contest has the goal of "cross the bridge first". Which kind of makes it look like I'm saying that the cavalry guy could allow the foot soldier to cross (surrendering that contest) *then* attack him. He can't - in this case, because the story ends when someone gets across - its an artificial example. But in general, the foot soldier has some reason he wants to cross. Something that goes beyond his immediate goal. If the cavalry guy is immediately attempting to stop him doing achieving that goal (in this case it might be "...and live to tell the tale...") then its the same contest.

>You could do a whole adventure as a single extended contest. Would that
>make sense?

Issaries obviously think so. It's how they suggest running The Battle of Iceland.

Cheers,
GRaham

Powered by hypermail