RE: Re: magical vs.mundane resistance

From: Peter Larsen <plarsen_at_...>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:40:20 -0500

At 12:09 PM -0600 2/27/04, Mike Holmes wrote:
> >From: "simon_hibbs2" <simon.hibbs_at_...>
>>
>>--- In HeroQuest-rules_at_yahoogroups.com, "Mike Holmes"
>><homeydont_at_h...> wrote:
>>
>> > The original complaint is that, essentially, a character seems to
>>be able to
>> > win in one unlikely situation via magic, but then typically can't
>>do
>> > something much more likely because the opposition is human. ...
>>
>>Or rather, not a tree.
>
>Again, this is the narrow constuctionist angle, and you've just asked me to
>attack it directly. Fine. You're missing the forest for the trees, so to
>speak. We're not talking about Trees but general cases (in fact you'll
>remember that this all started with a foot race).
>
>What if I have an ability "Orlanth's Strength 5W" once used legendarily to
>move a boulder, and on another occasion to defeat an opponent in arm
>wrestling? Generally makes the character stronger for certain kinds of
>heroic feats. Now, your character has Stong Like Bull 5W2. We each take
>turns trying to move a boulder that's got a mundane resistance of 4W5. You
>roll against 14, and move it easily. Then I roll against it's mundane
>resistance and fail to budge it.
>
>Now, we move on to armwrestling. Now it's my 5W2 vs. your 5W right? So I win
handily.

        Your example puzzles me -- I am assuming that Orlanth's Strength is magic and Strong like a Bull is not.

        If both are trying to lift a Huge 4W5 boulder, Bull guy get to roll vs the boulder's Big or Heavy or whatever and Magic guy rolls against a 14. Magic guy probably wins.

        Now, say the boulder is a daimon with a Stay Put ability of 10W3. That's what they're going to roll against, because it's the being's appropriate ability. In some ways its size doesn't matter because it is its spiritual nature that determines how it acts, not its physical qualities -- it is an Otherworld Being after all. Bull guy and Magic guy probably both lose, but Bull guy is a little less likely to get injured in the process (a lower lever of failure).

        Now, they want to arm wrestle. They are basically being strong against each other -- Magic guy 5W worth of strong and Bull guy is 5W2. Magic guy is pumping himself up with his power, maybe he's a scrawny little grandpa, maybe he's a big burly guy, but he has chose to use his magic, and it's made him 5W worth of strong. Bull guy has no useful magic, but he lifted his pet calf every day until it became a bull, so he has muscles on his muscles 5W2 worth. So Bull guy probably wins, and he deserves it.

        If they decide to have a rock throwing contest, since Magic guy is steamed at losing and wants revenge, the Narrator needs to set a difficulty -- maybe everyone agrees that "impressively far" has a resistance of 10W. Bull guy, with all his muscles, has a level of mastery but a few point disadvantage. Let's say Bull guy gets a failure and the distance a success. The failure gets bumped, and the Narrator decides that Bull guy threw his rock impressively far. Magic guy rolls against a 14 again and rolls a success bumped to a critical against the distance's success. The Narrator decides this is pretty darned far, and Magic guy wins the contest.

        Next, Bull guy challenges Magic guy to a plowing contest. They both have to roll some Plowing skill. Maybe they can augment with their strong abilities, but it's certainly not the main skill to be using.

        I don't really see the problem here -- Magic guy has an edge in some cases and not in others. On top of that, Bull guy is obviously strong while Magic guy might or might not appear strong. Useful for those bar bets.

        The question is (as Mr. Hibbs notes) whether the contest is against a being or an inanimate object. And whether the Narrator wants to construct the contest to favor magic or not. A race is two characters against a distance (like the rock throwing above), not necessarily against each other.

Peter Larsen