> >And do you realize that if you are that uncommitted, you can belong to a
> >Pantheon, a Tradition, and a Church all at the same time? Sure you can,
why
> >not? Only 30% time committment, same as an Initiate or Practitioner or
> >Adept!
>
> Yes, that's what I've been trying to convince people of for hours now. The
> question that remains is can one be a practitioner, initiate, orderly,
> liturgist, or the like and be in other religions?
My preference is "no, they can't" Add YGWV to all my remarks, of course). You can be a member of the Storm Tribe and be an intiate of Destor and be a practitioner of Kolat and an initiate of Torvald the Alchemist (since that's the closest the Storm tribe has to Sorcery); but not an initiate of Destor and a practitioner of Waha and a orderly of St. Gerlant (because those three are in seperate Religions).
A single religion, if practiced at the 10% level, won't make an impression on the worshipper as to whether it's Theist or Animist or Sorcerous. It's "my religion". It's the way my people worship. We don't really care if it's to a God or Spirit or Saint, and we don't care if its Sacrifice or Ecstatsy or Veneration. We do what our leaders tell us and that's it. It's *their* lookout as to what rituals they make us do.
> >As noted on page 131, "A tradition is a complete animist religion." How
> >many
> >people do you know that seriously belong to two completely different
> >Religions? "I'm a Christian *and* a Cheyenne Medicine Man". (note the
word
> >"Seriously" there - I know plenty of people that like to play "let's
> >pretend" in their religion).
>
> I think that's offensive to the people who do have more than one religious
> belief. Like myself. I'm a Catholic Zen Tao Sufi syncretist. No, really.
> Probably only at the worshipper level, but...
I'm not sure how serious you are, so I'm not going to touch it.
> In any case, as we've pointed out, in ancient times, this was more common.
> Given a world that's by your own description more religious overall than
> ours is today, I think this is inevitable.
Can religions accrete gods from elsewhere? Absolutely. In the Real World Greek pantheon Apollo and Artemis were additions, as were Dionysus and others. Teh Romans accreted gods wholesale. Even a number of Christian saints (or at least, until the Vatican demoted them) were accreted from other pre-christian peoples (St. Nicholas, St. Brigid). In Glorantha the Storm tribe Married the Earth Tribe, and adopted several other gods (Elmal, Heler, etc). But accreting gods (or saints or spirits) onto your pantheon is *not* the same as "worshipping two religions".
> Now, there's the question of whether you can call a person's own
> synctetization a religion. That is, have I created my own religion for
> myself. And the answer is no, because, in fact, a religion refers to the
> social support structures of a particular belief system, not just the
> beliefs themselves. The point being I think people would belong to more
than
> one religion in a world like Glorantha. And I'm not arguing commonality,
> either. It could be as rare as you like. I'm just arguing that it's
> possible.
Could there be a place where two distinct and seperate religions are worshipped concurrently? Possibly, though why isn't it just one religion? Example: The Storm Tribe is composed of two major and several minor groupings of gods: Storm and Earth, with Elmal and Heler and Kolat and a few others thrown in. Yet the "Storm Tribe" is considered a single religion. Why would your theoretical "two religion" place not have fused the two? Earth and Storm did so, as have the Lunar-Solars.
A religion is, as you note, more than just a set of cults to belong to. It's an integral part of the culture. It tells us how to live, how *we* make the world work ("By our worship we...", or "Despite our best efforts..."), what will happen if we stop, and where we go when we die. Holding two disparate and possibly contradictory sets of "How we live" isn't something people do easily. Just as a for-instance, where do you go when you die if you worhsip one religion that says "To paradise to cavoit with houris and the founatins run with wine" and the other says "Nowhere, you disapate into Nothingness"? In Glorantha this is a very important question!
> >Note that the Lunars are *not* an "entirely different religion" for the
> >Empire - they have managed to insinuate themselves into *all* the
different
> >religions of the region. You can belong to your cultural religion and the
> >Lunar religion at the same time.
>
> Right. But not to two religions inside the Lunar sphere, right? Can't
> worship the Solar Pantheon, and the Rinliddi one, right?
Well, actually the Rinliddi pantheon *is* part of the Solar pantheon, but the Rinliddi Religion is quite different than the Dara Happan one. But correct, you wouldn't find a Dara Happan worshipping "the Rinliddi way", or a Darjinnian worshipping "the Pelandan way".
> >to having two different religions, but two (or three, or four if you
count
> >Common Magic) entirely different types of magic. *Can* you do it
according
> >to the rules? Yes. *Should* you do it, basing your decision to human
nature
> >and cultural bias? I say "No".
>
> Well, in any case, you'd agree that it would really depend on the nature
of
> the character in question, right? What his nature and biases are? I could
> hardly disagree. Where we disagree is in terms of how complex human belief
> systems can get, apparently.
As stated in another message, I'd be *very* leery of allowing it. Prior to the last few decades, this wouldn't even have been an issue in western countries. You wouldn't *be* a Catholic Zen Tao Sufi syncretist. You'd be Catholic. Period. And if you wanted to add on those other things, you'd be given the hairy eyeball by your priest.
RR
C'est par mon ordre et pour le bien de l'Etat que le porteur du pr�sent a
fait ce qu'il a fait.
- Richelieu
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