Re: Orderly player characters in practice?

From: bethexton_at_...
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:14:05 -0000

• In HeroQuest-rules_at_yahoogroups.com, "parental_unit_2" <parental_unit_2_at_y...> wrote:
  >
  > I switched to HeroQuest from Runequest recently, and am trying to
  get
  > my head around saintly orders. Player characters in such orders seem
  > to be severely handicapped compared to characters using other types
  of
  > magic.
  

They do have their own limits, but I'm not sure that it is bad as you are thinking....
>
> In particular, player characters who are orderlies but not
liturgists
> will be unable to re-consecrate their talismans mid-week or while
away
> from the territory of their orders. If they are liturgists of their
> orders (an option which means devoting 30% or their time and hero
> points to the order), they will still be out of luck if they fail in
> contests to re-consecrate their talismans.

So a few points here.
- Being a liturgist is a delta of 10% of time and resources. Besides teh ability to reconsecrate talismans, I seem to recall that liturgists can use their abilities as a basic magical sense, something that orderlies don't have. So there are reasonable benefits to being an orderly-liturgist (where allowed) or having a liturgist follower.

• Note that simple initiates have to put 30% time and resources into their cult duties, and practioners typically at least 30% (more if they have a spirit ally). So this is the typical commitment level for someone who expects to be able to use magic regularly.
• Orderlies can use their magic actively (if they know appropriate spells that are useful in that mode). Initiates have a hard time doing anything other than augmenting with their magic. Practioners are probably the most flexible, getting augment, ability add, or active use, but in those latter two cases it is also a one time thing. Sometimes active magic is very useful.
• Orderlies can specialize far more effectively than can other users of equivalent level, in that they can buy up a single spell at a modest cost. By the time an initiate has bought up his combat affinity to 5W (a +3 augment or use the feats actively at 20/15 depending if concentrated or not), an orderly could have his "flaming sword" up to 1W2....a +4 augment if that is all he wants, but more likely a deadly magical attack.
• I'm not sure how clear this is in the rules, but I assume "one use" means one scene. So a combat errupts, and the orderly uses his flaming sword spell to make his sword flame. For the balance of the scene I'd imagine he could use it as an augment, or continue to use it as an active ability. I could be wrong with this interpretation mind you. Also certain spells may be less flexible in this regard than others, say a "confuse foe" spell would presumably have to target a specific foe, and while in an extended contest you could continue to use that ability against that foe (putting your will into the spell to push its effect?) you couldn't then use it against another foe.

> I understand there are good cultural reasons for narrator characters
> to join churches and orders, but that doesn't mean it makes sense
for
> player characters. Am I missing something? Is there some workaround
> that makes it more practical for player characters to belong to an
> order? Or in practice do most simply choose wizardry schools,
animism,
> or theism?

As already noted, it probably depends a lot on the setting you are using--in many settings animism and theism just aren't really options. Belonging to a wizardly school does give you access to more potent magic, but it has its own requirements--essentially that is your profession, and unless you start off at high levels you are bound to your master.

Of course, don't forget that even when not using their flashy spells, most orderlies will still be augmented by various blessings. In many cases these augments will match or surpass what theists or animists would obtain from their own magic. So even when they don't have spells available, it isn't like orderlies are magically bereft.

Finally, as someone on here (Mike I think?), useful abilities with limited uses actually are cool from a play point of view, because it makes them special when used, and adds extra drama to the decision to use it. It may not be more powerful, but it can be more dramatic. Associated with this is that it lets a greater variety of challenges be challenging....sometimes by preference or circumstances they'll have to deal with certain things without their spells, adding a certain sense of desperation again.

So are they somewhat limited? Of course. Is it all that bad? I don't think so.

--Bryan